the sleeper system

philly

philly

solid fixture here in the forum
i thought this was the appropriate place to start up this conversation. for the most part everyone who sees an american v8 car is going to assume it has some gonads... but looking like a tough 11 or 12 second car and clipping off single digit passes would be great for catching the unsuspecting adversary.


the extreme example being DENMAH (matt's) latest fairmont turbo project. famous for living his catch phrase "turbo lsx all the things" this car is a great sleeper project.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induct ... 45mph.html

CLIFFS NOTES: four door fairmont, 5.3LS, modified borg warner turbocharger, isky cam, using the stock computer, hptuners software and 80lb injectors. air to air intercooler and prestone yellow methanol injection. 721hp and good for nines AT 145MPH on a 235/60/15


http://youtu.be/OgGgShB1iHQ

http://youtu.be/aJeFTm3JczM


my question / topic then would be this: IF you wanted to build a car that LOOKED incapable of running an 9 second pass, BUT does infact run single digits, how would you go about it?

i love this guy matt's fairmont and gbody malibu wagon builds, however i just wouldnt be caught dead driving one of those things. what platforms do you think are underrated or under used in the industry today?

i posted this in the muscle car section because being able to build a sleeper muscle car is a great thing, no one left on this earth thinks that c4 corvettes are fast, so everyone is eager to race them. my 96 gets races every single night because no one sweats the "trailer park" corvette (someone literally said that when we pulled up in the CALLAWAY!! ignorant prick)

so i think a TPI c4 is great especially if you start with a stick car that has the dana 44 rear... most guys arent going to even notice if you use a FIRST intake manifold because it looks like the stock stuff that everone thinks is garbage anyway. just a thought, what are yours?
 
Don't mess around Phil.
Dana 60 4-link.
Do the Chassis 1st.
Big power can't be used if it can't be put to the ground & hookup.
1.0-1.3 60 foot times.
Any less just goofing off.

1970-1/2 TA.
1963 Pontiac Grand Prix

My picks today. My cars.
87 C4 Roadster too.
 
63 grand prix is a gentlemans hot rod... 64 catalina silver on red hard top is my fave pontiac of all time
 
philly said:
63 grand prix is a gentlemans hot rod... 64 catalina silver on red hard top is my fave pontiac of all time
Click to expand...
I Love my Old 1963 GP Too Phil
I was your age when I found it.
It hooks up real nice on the street.
Lower control arms in in Rear very long unlike A body GTO & CHEVELLE.
Upper arm placement right on.
Acts like Ladder bars.
Even on medicore radial street tires it hooks up awesome.
Something Corvette guys can only dream of with weaklung IRS Rears Drag Racin & Street Racing.
7 Inches wide rubber in the 63 GP has more antisquat traction than a Corvette IRS REAR WITH 16 INCHES WIDE RUBBER.
Everyone wonders what the Fuck....
Pontiac Engineers were Super smart.
 
87vette81big said:
philly said:
63 grand prix is a gentlemans hot rod... 64 catalina silver on red hard top is my fave pontiac of all time
Click to expand...
I Love my Old 1963 GP Too Phil
I was your age when I found it.
It hooks up real nice on the street.
Lower control arms in in Rear very long unlike A body GTO & CHEVELLE.
Upper arm placement right on.
Acts like Ladder bars.
Even on medicore radial street tires it hooks up awesome.
Something Corvette guys can only dream of with weaklung IRS Rears Drag Racin & Street Racing.
7 Inches wide rubber in the 63 GP has more antisquat traction than a Corvette IRS REAR WITH 16 INCHES WIDE RUBBER.
Everyone wonders what the Fuck....
Pontiac Engineers were Super smart.
Click to expand...

what diff is in the back of that thing from the factory? a small drag radial like a 235/60/15 on steel wheels would be unsuspecting enough. stock interior no cage car, i never run a cage, rollbar at most in the Z cars because it looks trick thru the rear hatch glass.... if we crash we are goin out in a blaze of glory!

this red on red 63 must have had a moor swapped in at some point it has a very factory looking 400-4 with dual exhaust like the later cars... i think that became an optional motor in like 66 or so.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/class ... nId=103417
 
A Pontiac 9.300" Rear Phil.
Pontiac Design.
Oldsmobile used too.
Made from 1957-64.
Strongest production rear ever made by GM.
RIVALS DANA 60 MOPAR.
DANA POSI UNIT 1958-63,
1964 EATON POSI.
RESEARCH HERE ON GRUMPYS. I HAVE PICTURES OF MINE & LINKS
 
right on, i will research on here more and get back probably with more questions than answers.
 
Its tough today Phil.
Too build a Real Race Car, not a noise maker & tire burnout queen takes at least $30k.
 
I would like a 1961 Pontiac Ventura Phil.
421 Super Duty Power.
Ultra rare. A few built.
 
its just difficult to find a balance brian, a 63 grand prix is way over 3500 pounds (which is a heavy ass benchmark already) but when we talk about putting 1000 lb of torque to good use... sometimes weight is required.
 
i feel like we need to find the next big trick that no one has really caught on to to get ahead of the curve down here... my buddy and i always daydream about building a car to showcase our skills and maybe bring in some new business, time and money budgeting are the big concerns there since we are trying to buy a warehouse to put all our projects and tools and toys in. i think it drives away alot of potential business when you say "come by the house" instead of "bring it to the shop"...

such is life.

i think the real next big thing for street cars with insane speed is going to be compound turbocharging... im not sure anyone has a firm grip on the science yet but people are bumbling their way to 160+mph trap speeds while easily keeping their street manners... heres something ive read through twice since saturday that really explains alot of the concepts... basically guys trying to adapt the science used in diesels and race tractor pull rigs to gasoline engines... sometimes with great results... this guy kevin is sharing everything he has learned after building his eagle talon into a 2 liter rwd compound turbo setup going 7.9 at 170+... and if you think its all laggy upside down turbo torque check this out... 5.11 at 140 in the 1/8 mile! makes power from the bottom to the top. and still most of his combination is just poorly educated guessing and alot of trial and error.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... t=compound

WARNING.... NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. AFTER READING THAT THREAD I SERIOUSLY COULD HAVE FRIED AN EGG ON MY FOREHEAD

the math and shit involved is almost too much to digest in one sitting.
 
I am familiar with coumpound Turbocharging Phil.
The Technology dates back to WW2.
USA & ALLIED WAR PLANES HAD WHAT WAS CALLED EMERGENCY POWER.
FULL BOOST OF 80-100PSI.....I KNOW YOUR SAYING....HOW IN THE FUCK BRIAN ???...,,,

TRIPTANE GASOLINE.
MOTOR OCTANE OF 180.
NO FUDGED NUMBERS.
Cost To Produce by the 55 gallon drum was over 600 bucks in 1942-44 dollar rate.
Figure $5-10k thousand today Phil.
With Triptane & coumpound Turbo charging 100psi...
4000-8000 Crankshaft HP.
More than any LS , BBC can handle.
Just the HEMI OLD SCHOOL.
 
Triptane has not been produced since 1946 Phil.
But I understand it never goes bad...stale or turn to turpentine.
A small stash of Triptane still exists.
WW2 Marked 55 gallon drums.
Elite few have acesss still.
When crazy records set by big names...Mickey Thompson, Smokey Yunick, Warren Johnson, John Linglefelter...
Triptane added.....
 
By the way Phil, 8-second runs for me won't happen in 2014

1963 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX, 20 GALLONS GAS & ME SEATED(170#'S) IS 4200LBS.
CAT CERTIFIED TRUCK STOP SCALES USED.
 
I always liked the idea of purchasing s used Military Genersl Electric made Jet Engine Phil.
F14.
BREAK 450 MPH ON LAND.
 
The most abundent & successfull street to Real Race Car Platform ever made Phil in my opinion.....
5.0 Mustang Fox body style.
All Chevy guys hate them.
Any engine Fits in.
Easy to fabricate & modify.
Proven into 6's @200 mph on 10" wide drag radial tires.

The 1 st 5.0 Race car I had seen local was 1997.
Ran low 11's.
SBC 355.
HAD A 1958 PONCHO 9.300" INCH REAR INSTALLED.
 
yea i thought about building a foxbody but trying to hide as much of the suspension and engine technology as i can. for sleeper status maybe it would look something like this:

fox body COUPE with a dana 60 or this BOP 9.300 rear

440" gm lsx block, 6 bolt head design, Hi Ram intake, compound turbo setup with the small turbo in the engine bay and the large turbo in the trunk hidden. 45 psi and e85 should be good for over 1500 to the tire. just can think of a tranny that would make the car streetable on low boost and still be able to take the ass kicking on full tilt
 
maybe a rossler 6L90E

my buddy uses this on his 1100hp ZL1 camaro and it seems to hold up pretty well in that heavy ass car
 
Its possible Phil...
$12-15k investment minus puchase price of the Fox body Mustang.
Depends upon how much you can do yourself.
Your young & have more free time than myself.
And the help you have.
Count on sleepless nights for 2 months straight to build the car.
One single Big Turbo or 2 small Turbos will get the job done.
Not smart to run 9's or 8's without a cage.
Meant to save your life incase accident occurs.
 
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