4 banger weight reduction

NitroInjected said:
Maybe that actually could help me... I wonder if 426 pins are long enough or longer. It would be nothing to get some lighter stronger pins that were made for a hemi and have them turned down. Probably cost me 50$ but money well spent. If you know of anything else close let me know. The length is 61.88mm
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At work.
Break time over.
Look later at 4pm central time when home.
 
Something tells Me the Lotus Engineers chose 1.000 " diameter Wrist Pins for a Reason.
British & Europe and nuts about power to weight ratio.
Likely made heavy to Last.
 
I mean I am pretty sure they were up there on output for the 70s when the motor was used and even surpassed ferrari with 4 cylinders vs 12 in 1990. So the pin had a purpose but with better steels available and diamond like carbon Lighter stronger and longer lasting pins can be made. The guy who decided to start tapering wrist pins is a genius.
Also .... I had to do a lot of grinding to get my heaviest rod to match the lightest... A light linish my @$$ .... I had to reprofile the surface of the bolt housing... I did so matching the profile of a similar rod and doubt I ground anything major off I got it within two tents of a gram and I am going to hand lap the finish for those last two tenths. I think theres 6 or more grams of rib where the dye halves met... I cant get after it yet but I may consider cutting it off as it is a weak point and if I can get my rods down by a few more grams its all good. But I had 633.9 for my lightest rod and 636.5 for my heavy rod... Thats a lot for an aftermarket rod and it was all in the big end... The other ones can loose weight off the small end and its just two grams. I also am going to just go ahead and take the last few miligrams off my pistons to get them under a tenth from eachother.
Either way I got three companies that are going to get back with me on pins and I sold an airconditioner that my in laws were trashing for 100$ so anything around that for pins isnt too much. I might even spend more if I can have my cake and eat it too with wanting to loose the 70 grams.... I am bent on trying to loose as much reciprocating motion as possible because it will prevent the rods from popping apart.... But I also have a lubercation issue I want to check into and may have a dry sump avaliable to me.... It'll all make sense in a few weeks... I swear.... :D
 
NitroInjected said:
I mean I am pretty sure they were up there on output for the 70s when the motor was used and even surpassed ferrari with 4 cylinders vs 12 in 1990. So the pin had a purpose but with better steels available and diamond like carbon Lighter stronger and longer lasting pins can be made. The guy who decided to start tapering wrist pins is a genius.
Also .... I had to do a lot of grinding to get my heaviest rod to match the lightest... A light linish my @$$ .... I had to reprofile the surface of the bolt housing... I did so matching the profile of a similar rod and doubt I ground anything major off I got it within two tents of a gram and I am going to hand lap the finish for those last two tenths. I think theres 6 or more grams of rib where the dye halves met... I cant get after it yet but I may consider cutting it off as it is a weak point and if I can get my rods down by a few more grams its all good. But I had 633.9 for my lightest rod and 636.5 for my heavy rod... Thats a lot for an aftermarket rod and it was all in the big end... The other ones can loose weight off the small end and its just two grams. I also am going to just go ahead and take the last few miligrams off my pistons to get them under a tenth from eachother.
Either way I got three companies that are going to get back with me on pins and I sold an airconditioner that my in laws were trashing for 100$ so anything around that for pins isnt too much. I might even spend more if I can have my cake and eat it too with wanting to loose the 70 grams.... I am bent on trying to loose as much reciprocating motion as possible because it will prevent the rods from popping apart.... But I also have a lubercation issue I want to check into and may have a dry sump avaliable to me.... It'll all make sense in a few weeks... I swear.... :D
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Just scary .
The Engine can not blow up and send a connecting rod out the side.
Gas Tanks are right there.
Hot exhaust too.

I grew up around Chevy Drag Racers.
By 1999 a 10-second car was Slow.
Seen many Chevies Blow up.
I Like them too.

Guys used to laugh at me because a Pontiac 455 has a heavy Reciprocitating rotating assembly.
It never mattered on bit on the street or Track.
Still Ran Fast and Won Races.
 
Turbo Boost kinda works like Nitrous.
SUPER TORQUE PRESENT WITH HIGH BOOST 15 PSI OR MORE.

High Rpm only if you have the best parts.
 
So ... I just read and the guy who led me to want to do this just made 430 at the wheels... But he has a heavier crank with bigger mains... Really mains dont need to be bigger in this motor its a 4 pot with the whole bottom of the block acting as a bearing carrier... He went longer stroke lower CR but had the money for better pistons... I gotta loose the weight... Read again through his teardown thread... He cooked his oil but also claims it tore its self apart.... By the burn marks on the rods I would say he cooked the bearings when the oil went thin... My solution for this is the BB turbo along with a bigger oil cooler placed at a different part of the car.
BTW this car turns 7300 and probably higher all day I didnt tell the guys who biffed up on my build but I over revved it a few times and the bearings etc are clean.. That counteracts what this guy is saying but if the temp spike is an issue low RPM oil pressure sucks in this car and hes using a journal bearing turbo as stock is so no oil on the bearings at idle that will burn you quick. I am betting weather or not I get the lighter pins I will go way over my goals as everything is being done to a hand finish along with the fact that I will be running perfectly matched components. And... The 455 is a great motor. I would run it with a smile.

I also may bottle feed the car at some point to pick up slack paired with the ECM but water meth is all the rage right now so I may give it a shot. Whatever scares the hell right out of me and I can cruise on date night with. thats the build.

Right now I am jamming to some Korn I dunno what you guys listen to... Trying to crack the code of this motor... Aka I want to find the thing that will break at 600 H.p. and get a part made or do whatever machinging I need to eliminate it for when I get the new gear box in two years when the car is paid off..... This was my grocery getter before it leaked massive amounts of oil.
 
NitroInjected said:
So ... I just read and the guy who led me to want to do this just made 430 at the wheels... But he has a heavier crank with bigger mains... Really mains dont need to be bigger in this motor its a 4 pot with the whole bottom of the block acting as a bearing carrier... He went longer stroke lower CR but had the money for better pistons... I gotta loose the weight... Read again through his teardown thread... He cooked his oil but also claims it tore its self apart.... By the burn marks on the rods I would say he cooked the bearings when the oil went thin... My solution for this is the BB turbo along with a bigger oil cooler placed at a different part of the car.
BTW this car turns 7300 and probably higher all day I didnt tell the guys who biffed up on my build but I over revved it a few times and the bearings etc are clean.. That counteracts what this guy is saying but if the temp spike is an issue low RPM oil pressure sucks in this car and hes using a journal bearing turbo as stock is so no oil on the bearings at idle that will burn you quick. I am betting weather or not I get the lighter pins I will go way over my goals as everything is being done to a hand finish along with the fact that I will be running perfectly matched components. And... The 455 is a great motor. I would run it with a smile.

I also may bottle feed the car at some point to pick up slack paired with the ECM but water meth is all the rage right now so I may give it a shot. Whatever scares the hell right out of me and I can cruise on date night with. thats the build.

Right now I am jamming to some Korn I dunno what you guys listen to... Trying to crack the code of this motor... Aka I want to find the thing that will break at 600 H.p. and get a part made or do whatever machinging I need to eliminate it for when I get the new gear box in two years when the car is paid off..... This was my grocery getter before it leaked massive amounts of oil.
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Race Cars do not make Good Daily Drivers I learned in the past.
Some Asshole always wants to mess with it too.
Mundane is better to drive daily.
A C4 Corvette also is low key.
No one thinks my 87 Corvette will get up and go fast till I floor it.
 
I like that oil but I found a really good turbo oil here.... There are physical issues. One of them is oil drain back from the head Which I have an answer for. This car is anything but low key. I also need it to be able to hill climb against GTR's. Nothing Too crazy but I plan on having a V band on the outlet of my turbo so I can switch to a 4 inch by 6 inch dump.... c4 is my favorite corvette. I have never actually been in one. Driven all other models lol. But I know what you mean as the stock output was not what it should have been for that car. But then again back then they werent considered a super car so they didnt need to be retarded fast.

I got my rods to 3 tenths of a gram and plan on polishing out the last two tenths. There was only one rod that needed weight taken off from both ends... I got 633.9 grams up to 634.2 I think if I had spent the extra 300$ on carillo rods I could have shaved another 30 grams at least... Next time.
I should get emails in a few hours wrist pins.
 
Just absolutely horrifically stupid... I had this pin it was .996 inch..... Got worried held up my order for pins.... Miced my other pins... hmmm 1 inch.... Checked the bore 1.006 good... the 996 pin's bore.... .997! What what what!??? Checked rod 4... as cylinder 4 has had a rough life.... It almost came apart once... the rod I mean.... Yep... 1.006 hmmm That noise I thought was a upper rod knock was.... upper rod knock now wasnt it...
 
thats one of many reasons I strongly suggest anyone in this hobby has a selection of accurate precision measuring tools

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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-with-a-local-machine-shop.14419/#post-74389

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-ring-info-youll-need.509/page-2#post-71538

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-rod-balancing-question.13403/#post-69709
 
I was spoiled... I had all this stuff at my disposal and used it and took it for granted growing up... Ill get a set as I want to do the wifes wimpy 109 h.p. motor. A 500$ venture versus the lotus... Again I should have welded the crank and went with the vw type 1 rods and had pistons made. Same price and 400 grams lighter.... ouch!
 
So I am thinking about grinding the bulk weight off the webs my self before my crank goes off to the machine shop who can not.... Bore my pins nor undercut my valves... What they dont got a lathe? Then how do they do flywheels? I might ask if I can rent an hour on the lathe and do it my self. I never run a lathe before but I imagine a twist drill will do her in this case to avoid a major screw up. I know the right way is to use a carbide. But lube/ feeds and speeds are whats going to get it done and its not hard with a drill... Hard on the tool but not hard for the operator.

On that note I wish I had a collet and a mill. I could just chuck up the valve and use a carbide.

Anyways A die grinder and scale get me by on cutting the bulk weight off the webs? I would be cutting the same weight off all webs divided across the crank.
 
I been around em. Not gonna ya know let my work fly out and get me or stick my fingers where they dont go. :D . Actually the only tools I havent used in a shop are a hone a mill and a lathe... Everything else I have at least screwed up on or have gotten good at. I just need to remove a few thou of material from the pins.
 
NitroInjected said:
I been around em. Not gonna ya know let my work fly out and get me or stick my fingers where they dont go. :D . Actually the only tools I havent used in a shop are a hone a mill and a lathe... Everything else I have at least screwed up on or have gotten good at. I just need to remove a few thou of material from the pins.
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I dont know what they have in Japan for you to use.
Its going to take a Big Shop Lathe.
Need Hp around 8- 12 to turn the crank counter weights down.
Like 1/4" - 1.00 inch like you want to reduce mass by a large amont.

10, 12, 20 inch swing lathes.

Here a Gallion lathe.
South Bend.

To Reach in you may need an old school tool steel cutting bit.
Sharpen and grind angles needed.

I used to have a South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe to use.
 
for some one not really skilled and experienced
,and having the correct tools and testing equipment on hand,
this is a process best left to the pros ,
who were forced to invest tens of thousands of dollars in the correct tools,.
the process, removing weight from counter weights and drilling rod journals
has far more potential for screwing the crank up, reducing strength or screwing up the balance,
than improving performance
 
Better off Honest to find a Veteran Master Machinist to cut down the Counterweights for You.
Worth $150 cash here.

My Best bud Bob does 1 off machine projects for me.
Usually 5am -7am before his Boss gets in.
 
Grumpy said:
for some one not really skilled and experienced,
the process, removing weight from counter weights and drilling rod journals
has far more potential for screwing the crank up, reducing strength or screwing up the balance,
than improving performance
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Its A Lotus too.
Not like you can get another from Summit Racing
 
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