c-4 exhaust system

[grumpyvette]

I see guys get some rather absurd quotes at times (well over $3K) for a full exhaust and headers on their corvettes, and if your willing to just buy the parts and install them yourself theres some decent components available

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0908_ ... index.html

http://www.professionalequipment.com/ex ... ermometer/
Wide temperature range from -58 to 1832°F (-50 to 1000°C)
any time that your dealing with a potential temperature issue or a trouble issue where , knowing the exact temperature vs what a gauge might say, it helps to have a handy and accurate infrared temp gun handy to locate and confirm heat, levels.
read thru these links also
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-well-designed-c4-exhaust.786/

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1303

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-kills-o2-sensors.3049/#post-53103

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1247

http://www.remflex.com/exclusive_features.htm

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-1007-corvette-headers-guide/?cx_source=cxrecs#cxrecs_s

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-1008-corvette-headers-guide/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ex...-exhaust-manifolds/?cx_source=cxrecs#cxrecs_s

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/0501vet-long-tube-headers/
melrose 1-815-758-2783
these guys at MELROSE can supply you with a very nice headers and exhaust you can install in your driveway for less than $1600-$2K complete in most applications, theres less expensive systems but few as well laid out, now obviously if your willing to do some fabrication and not just buy a ready to install system theres a ton of less expensive options, but remember quality headers are expensive and having a well thought thru system thats low restriction is mandatory to make good peak horsepower.
If your swapping to a larger 3" exhaust with an (X) pipe, it has or will more than likely reduced your engines exhaust restriction this tends to lean out the fuel/air ratio, which can reduce torque ESPECIALLY if you still have shorty stock exhaust manifolds that don,t always scavenge the cylinders correctly at all rpm levels, you can generally get back the torque and add upper and mid rpm power with correctly designed long tube headers, but most engines with factory injectors and tuning run rather lean for passing emission testing. and most original cams are more concerned with mileage and drive-ability than torque and peak power.
every change you make effects the way the car runs, if you reduce the exhaust restriction it potentially allows the car to make noticeably more hp, but REQUIRES the engines re-tuned to match the new conditions and having a longer duration cam and larger injectors and long tube headers certainly helps take advantage of the lower exhaust flow restriction.
IF YOUR WELDING STAINLESS USE A MINIMUM 16GA 18 GA is too THIN, FOR STAINLESS HEADERS OR EXHAUST PIPE, AND DON,T FORGET TO PURGE THE BACK GAS WHEN WELDING , and 321 is superior to 304 stainless

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-1007-corvette-headers-guide/?cx_source=cxrecs#cxrecs_s

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-1008-corvette-headers-guide/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ex...-exhaust-manifolds/?cx_source=cxrecs#cxrecs_s

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/0501vet-long-tube-headers/
http://www.melroseheaders.com/products/smooth_flow_exhaust_systems/c-4.php

http://www.melroseheaders.com/products/ ... ms/c-4.php

The melrose exhaust is a very well designed system, and keep in mind the exhaust gasses travel to the rear and pass through the (X) pipe they dissipate HEAT and loose some pressure and volume as a result, the (X) tends to mellow the growl slightly also, thus the two exhaust pipes past the (X) pipe share the split flow ,thats now sharing twice the original exhaust cross sectional area, at a reduced restriction, if I had the cash available thats the route ID suggest going , then you just need a decent quality, low flow restriction set of mufflers, added to the exhaust
one of the better current c4 corvette exhaust system designs is made by www.melrosecorvette.com


http://www.mamotorworks.com/corvette-c4 ... 9-960.html

']']']']']']']']']
']']']']']']']']']heres is one of the best commercially available exhaust systems Ive seen, but I usually suggest adding an additional (H) pipe just in front of the muffler entrance point vaguely similar to this, but without the (Y) in the exhaust system, any decent muffler shop or welding shop can easily modify the system like that during the install process
']']']']']']']']']
']']']']']']']']']
']']']']']']']']']to both mellow the tone and further reduce harmonics

" DID YOU, You See the Awesome Headers on the C7 R ?"

yes and notice its a 4-2-1 design, on those racing corvettes to, maximize and widen the torque curve and several aftermarket exhaust system manufacturers are only now, starting to sell the DUAL (X) pipe exhaust systems that enhance scavenging that Ive fabricated and used for decades, as it both mellows the exhaust noise tone and broadens the rpm band while reducing back pressure if correctly designed with the 3" exhaust pipes

of course theres options from other sources
http://www.parts123.com/corvettecentral/dyndetail.pta?catalog=0000050f&ukey=25204

grumpy, who makes a really good quality header for my car?

I get similar questions all the time, and there ARE certain brands that do have a reputation for better fit and finish on headers,
but your results are totally dependent on you doing accurate ,prior research, your asking the correct questions,
knowing exactly what cylinder heads your using,and yes better quality tends to cost more than bargain basement prices!
knowing exactly what car it will be installed into and if your dealing with a better quality manufacturer helps.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148-0404-best-headers-shootout/

http://www.lemonsheaders.com/

http://www.stahlheaders.com/

http://www.stainlessheaders.com/

http://stainlessworks.net/products/performance-systems/headers

http://www.burnsstainless.com/

https://www.carid.com/performance-headers.html

 

[grumpyvette]

but having replaced dozens of 1984-87 exhaust systems on c4 corvettes I can assure you that if you have the option to run without the cats , and your serious about horsepower potential, that having a decent 3" full length exhaust with an (X) pipe is far superior and far less restrictive to ANYTHING those standard 2.5" cat equipped dual (Y) design exhaust systems can provide for power potential, matched to decent headers.
melrose 1-815-758-2783
now I built my own custom system but this melrose system looks like an excellent option if your not into fabricating on of your own.
for those guys who are less than familiar with math,or exhaust physics,
heres a picture of the MELROSE EXHAUST, adding a second (X) will reduce the noise, mellow the tone and increase the exhaust scavenging efficiency,

that might be thinking why did he go from a 3" exhaust pipe entering the muffler ,
to dual 2.5" pipes exiting the mufflers remember the exhaust pulsed enter the exhaust header primary pipes ever 90 degrees of engine rotation, these pulsed masses of exhaust gases
travel rapidly to the header collector then exit and the gases enter the approximately 7 square inch area cross section on the exhaust pipes,
they travel to the first (X) where the mass splits into a dual exhaust with each side having that approximately 7 square inch area cross section on the exhaust pipes,
each 3" exhaust sides flow mass has been reduced to half its original volume but now flows at a reduced speed to the second (X) where the pulse energy , now equalized and reduced now collides
this further equalized the flow as it temporarily recombines and re-splits, this further stabilized the pulse into a more consistent flow, the sound energy has been partly eliminated as the two (X) pipe intersections allow both sides of the exhaust to blend and lower the effective speed and restriction to flow.
now the mass of gas that was blended twice and has lost much of its heat, pressure and energy exits, that approximately 7 square inch area cross section on the exhaust pipes, into the muffler where its further cooled, slowed as it expands and can further reduce its speed and pressure as its now exiting a dual 4.9 square inch or about 9.8 square inches

http://www.melroseheaders.com/products/smooth_flow_exhaust_systems/c-4.php

 

[grumpyvette]

is the pypes exhaust system on the vette a 3" full length and is it STAINLESS STEEL or aluminized iron?
do you have any pictures of the whole headers back exhaust laid out, before being installed?

LD85 posted this


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PYE-SCC40R/

it is 2.5" true dual mandrel bent with an X-pipe, 409 SS

With No cats, it is $441 + shipping at Jegs.

Hi Flow cats PArt number CVM11k =$269
These 200 Cell 2.5" OD slotted inlet w/O2 bung and 2.5" OD outlet Metallic Mini converters are polished 409 stainless, but weigh only 3 lbs and measure only 11" long. Installed, they only take up 7" in length. Rated at 4,500 lbs capacity. Pypes cats and catted X-pipes will pass most states emissions testing procedures. However, check your local and state ordinances for installation and usage regulations. Kit comes with 2 metallic catalytic converters, 2 band clamps and 2 O2 sensor bung plugs. Flows 330 CFM.

 

[grumpyvette]

THERES LITTLE DOUBT that places like MELROSE sell a nice exhaust for the corvettes , and if your not inclined to save some money by fabricating your own custom exhaust its a good option, but Id point out its the constant difference in the potential cost savings I see, when I get quoted on jobs like that vs what it may cost me to do it myself where I know its done correctly vs watching some guy rush through a job to just get it out the door, and the consistent reduced cost, ($100 here, $300 there, OR MORE) from owning a decent welder and being able to fabricate an exhaust myself to exactly the way I want it too be that made me buy a welder and easily paid for itself in well under a year, and from then on it was a consistent and very cost effective asset.

If you need a decent exhaust you might want too consider its a great reason to buy a decent MIG welder and learn exactly how too weld!
yes it might cost more up front right now but in the long term its a sure bet to save you money and add to your skills and options...plus adding new tools is never a bad idea
I have zero doubt you could easily save $200-$300 plus doing the job your self, it won,t take many jobs saving that kind of cash to pay for a welder and accessories
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...just-slap-on-factory-headers.3155/#post-37091

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/x-or-h-pipe.1503/#post-8318

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/is-backpressure-hurting-your-combo.495/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/high-flow-quiet-exhaust.10558/
melrose 1-815-758-2783

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/m...re_Code=WD&Product_Code=907321&Category_Code=

and you darn sure don,t need a top quality welder LIKE I BOUGHT if you just want a decent shop welder,something like the welder linked below would do 95% of what the larger welder does and maybe 99% of what a car shop ever does

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/m...de=WD&Product_Code=907422&Category_Code=m-mig

Its been my experience that a great many people that say they "CAN,T WELD" is due to previous experience using some crappy sears, HF or old out of date ARC or flux core welder or some other cheap crappy equipment, my old welding instructor in my engineering school used to say

the VAST majority of cheap welders are in fact marginal and generally a P.I.T.A. to use, once you get a decent MIG , using the proper wire and shield gas, its a totally different ball game, and its a FACT that surface prep and having the area your welding spotlessly clean is MANDATORY, if you were not using a tank of proper shield gas you were more than likely using a crappy flux core welder, NOT MIG

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/most-versital-shop-welder.1594/#post-43019
http://www.melrosecorvette.com/1984...er-system-no-egr-no-air-add-catalytic-option/
one of the better current c4 corvette exhaust system designs is made by www.melrosecorvette.com

 

[philly]

the melrose kit loks really well thought out, grumpy and its quite inexpensive, even with the ceramic coating option, when you price out what a set of headers costs retail and add on all the extra tubing and an x pipe... fortunately i really like the look and sound of the factory lt1 mufflers so that kit is great for me.

 

[87vette81big]

I am thinking the Exhaust system should be Entirely Fabbed Phil.
Twin 3 " inch.
Or Twin 4" inch.

Melrose is ok. Small tubes.
Warbirds blow past you in 2nd gear.

My thinking anything done in past SBC IS A waste of time and money.

BIG BLOCKS.
BIG TUBE HEADERS.
OPEN EXHAUST.
OPEN HEADERS.

 

[philly]

yea brian if maximum power output was the objective i would agree with you... but the vette was supposed to be my cruiser that i could ride around with a/c and power everything and a radio... ive got the zx open downpipe no air conditioning just gurgling whistling screamingturbo sounds and exhaust... and the rx7 3.5" aluminum pipes with borla "mufflers" that are more like amplifiers (you cant even carry a conversation in that thing)

id like to be able to take the wifey out to dinner in something comfortable (both creature comforts and noise level) while at the same time have the car not be a stock puppy that new cars will kick around so easily. so a realistic 350-375 wheel horsepower will be easily managed with that already fabricated exhaust... and its less work for me haha and i like that sometimes.

 

[philly]

by the way i had to share something with you guys in the other thread on x or h pipes.. thanks for reminding me...

 

[Grumpy]

 

[87vette81big]

Just Checking In Grumpy.
Poking around Forums like You do quietly .
Big Dreams and Plans going on.
Comes Down to the Car(s) you have.
Available $.
Parts on hand.
Experience also with Kowwhow.
I figured out on DC who Whined the most behind the scenes to Mods orher than You.
BMW V12 C3 guy.

 

[87vette81big]

It was not the Fearsome 4 Mechanics.
Just tell each.other off Live.
Not sure where Wiz is.
M.I.A.

 

[87vette81big]

I stand corrected Grumpy.
It was Zinc too.
Play time is over.
Street Race 2016.
Just Like Street Outlaws on TV.

 

[87vette81big]

These car Forums are something else really Grumpy.
Most are out to Discredit You.
Steal Your Cars.
Steal Your Combo.
Your Best off To Never Post Online.
I never gave exact 100 % what I am doing or building .
You Always leave them Guessing .
There is Zero advantage disclosing all.
You Lose You Race Edge On The Street and Track.
The Old Italian & Sicilian Bill Taught me.
I am Smater than those Stupid Ficks on DC.

 

[87vette81big]

Tech thinks he is King Now.
I remember helping him night after night online.
No one else could.
None had actual Drag Race at the Track Experience .
582 Cubes BBC.
He don't have a Tube Chassis Car.
No Dana 60.
Car must be Certified to Run 9.0 & 8.0's By NHRA.
Tech had prior Medical issues.
He is an X-Ray Tech on nights .
He has to Pass NHRA Medical Doctors exam.
Also at the track testing with NHRA officials present.
Get his NHRA License to Run 9's & 8's.
Rollcage must pass inspection and Sonic Test.
All NHRA Safety Gear Present.
People with Medical issues will have a hard time getting thier NHRA License to Race.
Heart conditions your Automatic Denied Turned down.

 

[87vette81big]

I notice Phil don't post no more.
And I recall he said he never posts on The Turbo Forum.
Best To just Lurk as Phil Does.
Also Grumpy.
I won't post my Combo.
Your Too Close to the DC Group.
I hope they all read.
2-faced SOB ALL.

 

[87vette81big]

A Corvette Literally explodes apart if You Wreck it Street Racing.
Hit the wall at the Track a Vette Blows up too.
Fiberglass.

 

[87vette81big]

Gotta Love It Grump.
Street Racing .
I do.
No Friends .
Only 1 can Win.

 

[Gibbles]

I have the Melrose system on my 84, I love the sound it gives.

I was also able to resize the original mufflers to fit the rear tubes, but I ended up blowing a bunch of packing out of both sides of the original mufflers.
At first I thought I lost a muffler...
I just kept hitting the go pedal until the car got louder and ran better.

I have a set of FM40's that will get installed this fall or winter when the car is back on jackstands, currently working on acquiring a decent welder and some skills before I start working on the vette.

 

[Grumpy]

try several welders, before you decide, and try to get help learning how to weld from SEVERAL EXPERIENCED weldors, try both mig and TIG if you get the chance
that can accurately point out the benefits and weak points or flaws in each welder design.
personally I find each type of welder has some marked advantages.
MIG is probably the easiest to learn with and use (most of my friends use a 140-200 amp mig welders and use them mostly on steel)
TIG is probably the most versatile, but a bit slower. (and its generally more expensive too buy and use.) and it has some advantages, especially on aluminum.

keep in mind that a properly designed exhaust system and headers goes a very long way towards increasing the efficiency of the intake manifold and head flow , and remember that the better the heads and the more effective the exhaust scavenging the less duration the cam used will require!
RELATED THREADS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-t-do-stupid-stuff-get-decent-equipment.1669/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/good-source-for-welding-tips.530/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/mig-or-tig.72/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-tig-welding-info.295/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/most-versital-shop-welder.1594/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-gentlemen-feel-comfortable-tig-welding.3284/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/looking-for-a-cheap-mig.4732/

 

[Gibbles]

Good points and info.

The welder i hire for odd jobs starting with an aluminium cuddy boat that had two tears in the bottom of the boat. he uses a tig welder.
He also saved my S10 a little while ago when it developed some cracks around the upper control mounts.

I'm currently hoping i can higher him to teach me a few things.