Chevy Small block, Oil supply to Cylinder No. 2 hydraulic lifters

D

Derek from Hamburg

Member
Dear All,
I have a Chevy Small block from 1978. I have changed the oil pump to a high volume type and changed camshaft, hydraulic lifters and pushrods. Now after breaking in the camshaft I realized that the oil supply on cylinder No.2 on the exhaust rocker system is the last one where the oil supply through the pushrod is coming. Until I can see the oil coming (I have some valves covers cut out at the top for inspection and valve adjustment) the engine is already running for some minutes in idle and has nearly reached its normal running water temperatur.
I am very sensible at the moment, as especially this rocker arrangement failed in the past, and that was the reason to change all the components mentioned above.
I have no experience how it will look like on this cylinder, (as it is the one most far away from the oil pump)
when everything is normal. So your experience would be very helpful for me.
Best Regards

Derek
 
Its most likely old engine sludge is the issue.
The lifter is blocked up internal.
Unable to pass oil up the pushrod.

Try adding 1 full quart of Marvel Mystery oil to engine oil.
Start the engine and let it run.

The next step is right from the 1965 year Oldsmobile Service Manual.
With the engine runing at idle and valvecovers off tap on the Rocker arms pushrod side with a Plastic headed hammer.
Tap firm several times rapid.
But do not swing sledgehammer hard crazy.
Oil will flow out each pushrod in 10 seconds or less.
This dislodges the dirt blocking oil flow inside of the lifter body.
 
Hallo Maniacmechanic,
Thanks for your reply.
The issue is that the hydro lifters are brand new. I soaked them in oil overnight, before I installed them.
And since then the engine has run twice in idle and warmed up until the electric fan started to cool them down.
All the time the oil pressure indication from the sensor was more than 60 psi in the cockpit.

Dirk
 
Derek from Hamburg said:
Hallo Maniacmechanic,
Thanks for your reply.
The issue is that the hydro lifters are brand new. I soaked them in oil overnight, before I installed them.
And since then the engine has run twice in idle and warmed up until the electric fan started to cool them down.
All the time the oil pressure indication from the sensor was more than 60 psi in the cockpit.

Dirk
Click to expand...
Where did you buy the lifters from ?
What brand are they ?

There has been many issues with low cost flat tappet hydraulic lifters.
Also with hydraulic roller lifters.

Johnson made lifters are preferred.
Iskenderien Cams & Crower Cams are all that I use myself.
They use supply Johnson company made lifters.

Surviving Vintage Musclecar era engines well taken care of are hard to find.
Had best stock & no china made parts or china produced steel.

Opens a whole can of worms.
What should cost a few hundred US Dollars ends up costing $2,000 + for a Full Roller camshaft & all parts needed to make the valvetrain engine last.

I have 2 engines in excellent survivor condition with original GM Cams & Lifters.
1965 Olds 425 V8.
1959 Pontiac 389 V8.
 
Yes, let me know your opinion on them. This is was my US-car shop sold me, when I asked.
I am not shy to spend some money and change them again for better ones.
Derek
 
Derek from Hamburg said:
Yes, let me know your opinion on them. This is was my US-car shop sold me, when I asked.
I am not shy to spend some money and change them again for better ones.
Derek
Click to expand...
At this point I recommend a brand new Camshaft & Lifter set.
Matching valvesprings.
New Timing chain set.

It snowballs...
Into a entire new engine build ground up.
Seems to happen that way with every Small Block Chevy here on Grumpys place.
 
You see, what worries me most is that with a new Sealed Power high volume oil pump, starting my cold engine (it was resting overnight) it takes on the drivers side bank nearly 30 sec to see the first oil coming from the pushrod hole and on that side nearly 1 min until all rockers will receive oil. The longest it takes on that opposite cylinder No.2.
I am wondering if that is normal?

Derek
 
yes adding a quart of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL
marvel.jpg

will tend to free up stuck lifters, but it won,t cure all potential issues

if you find one or a couple rockers are not flowing oil at idle,
first step, Id suggest you back off the rocker nut on that push rod, pull that push rod and flush it out internally,
with carburetor cleaner or gasoline,just like is usually done before a new cams installed too limit the potential abrasive micro-crap in the engine,from any previous issues.
if any engine shows signs of having sludge build-up or a cam, or bearings, or lifters, have previously failed, you'll need to carefully clean all of the internal parts, before re-use.
In most cases you would soak the rockers and push rods in gas over night and use an air compressor too blow out the push rod internal passages, soak the push rods for several hours in gasoline, then, run some pipe cleaners through it, to be sure its totally clean and free of internal sludge and debris, like anyone should have done with all the push-rods, prior to assembly.
Id suggest you back off the rocker nut on that push rod adjustment slowly too the point it clicks softly, on that one push rod thats not spurting oil, ,this, indicating the clearance has reached the maximum allowable,
too safely run, and then stop the engine, squirt a bit (maybe 2-3 table spoons)of diesel down on that lifter and let that seep in for an hour then restart the engine and let it run with that lifter softly clicking for at least 15 minutes so it frees up internally.
rockers and rocker nuts and rocker pivot balls should ideally be kept together as individual matched sets , if you don,t have a valve train disassembly tray, tye-wrap the matched parts together
and reassembly with a good coat of moly assembly lube.
vtrw4.jpg

vtrw2.jpg

vtrw3.jpg

sum-900013.jpg


https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/09/22/making-modern-flat-tappet-camshafts-lifters/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-extra-cost-vs-a-flat-tappet-design.3802/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rumpy-what-cam-manufactures-do-you-use.16443/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...up-sticky-hydraulic-lifters.15582/#post-93151

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-cylinder-no-2-hydraulic-lifters.14505/page-2

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ter-pumps-oil-and-traps-oil.15555/#post-92843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-t-adjust-the-valve-lash.15404/#post-90613

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/09/22/making-modern-flat-tappet-camshafts-lifters/


read these links
http://www.engineprofessional.com/articles/EPQ215_18-38.pdf

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/09/22/making-modern-flat-tappet-camshafts-lifters/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-piston-to-valve-clearances.399/#post-74297

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rect-custom-length-pushrods.14241/#post-72346

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/acceptable-lobe-variation.13654/#post-70348
 
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Derek from Hamburg said:
You see, what worries me most is that with a new Sealed Power high volume oil pump, starting my cold engine (it was resting overnight) it takes on the drivers side bank nearly 30 sec to see the first oil coming from the pushrod hole and on that side nearly 1 min until all rockers will receive oil. The longest it takes on that opposite cylinder No.2.
I am wondering if that is normal?

Derek
Click to expand...
It will vary from engine to engine.
I love solid mechanical lash set lifters best myself.
Start the engine and oil flows out of all 16 rocker arms in just 5 seconds or less.

Your lacking oil flow or none at all to the #8 Exhaust Rocker arm.
 
 
My oil pump pickup is not parallel to the bottom, but at a slight angle (to start with this question first). So I suppose this passage is free.
Am I correct when I say that the lifters on the passenger side of the engine receive their oil via a ring groove in the distributor shaft?
What about oil leakage in this area, as there are (of course) not two o-rings to seal it?
Derek
 
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Dear Gentlemen,
first of all let me tell you that I very much appreciate your help and comments!
I can double check the oil screen clearance with the oil pan tomorrow.
I only removed one plug from the passenger side hydraulic lifter oil gallery and was aware of that blaockage issue , as I read that advice from you before I did that. So I hammered the cap in, so that it was just flush with the engine housing.

Is there any possibility that I read a good oil pressure from my pump, but the line behind the pump is restricted with an obstacle, that is not catched by the filter?

Derek
 
yes its potentially possible that an oil passage is blocked, by an improperly installed oil passage plug,
or a cam bearing was improperly installed, or a oil passage plug simply popped out due to oil pressure

the picture below is from a different thread but the previous case was low oil pressure due to a pressed in plug falling out
that might not be your problem, but its potentially one reason

IMAG0096pl.jpg
 
yes its potentially possible that an oil passage is blocked, by an improperly installed oil passage plug,
or a cam bearing was improperly installed, or a oil passage plug simply popped out due to oil pressure,
you won,t know for sure the cause until you check each potential issues source.
you might want to try use of a different brand oil filter,
some are much better quality than others and several people have had similar issues;
that were corrected by simply swapping to a different and better quality oil filter

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ilter-you-sellect-does-make-a-differance.117/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/
 
Derek, the plug you reinstalled should not be flush. Drive it in another 1/16" and stake the metal around it
to prevent it from coming out. Sealer or even Loctite should have been used also.

The problem IS your lifters. I went through this EXACTLY as you describe. You will be lucky if the camshaft is still salvageable.

The story is written on this site. I will find the links. Lots of reading for you to do, but you will understand completely.
Reading the links will save you months of troubleshooting - like I had to do.

DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE ANY FURTHER! Mike.
 
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