Gen 6, 454 Rebuild(long)

[Spareparts]

I'm sure this tells us exactly what we need to know but i seem to be a dumb ass and can not figure out anything but ABDC is 37.
Maybe that is all that is needed?

Advertised Intake Duration: 264
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 270
Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 212
Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 218
Intake Valve Lift: 0.51
Exhaust Valve Lift: 0.51
Lobe Separation: 113
Exhaust Close ATDC: -6
Intake Open BTDC: -5
Exhaust Open BBDC: 44
Intake Close ABDC: 37

This is what i come up with and it's unbelievable to me.

 

[Indycars]

Did you use the calculator for IVC on the 2nd page of my Excel Calculator (IVC Angle Calc -2) ???
I'm going to make YOU figure out the answer, but I'm going to help! You will feel better when YOU know the answer.



Using the numbers below, what do you get for IVC (Intake Valve Closing) angle ???
HINT: You will have to guess at the "Advance/Retard" cell, but try 4° to start with, most cams are advanced. If you have the cam card, then post it and we can calculate the ADVANCE ground into the cam together, but not hand feed. Are you up for it???

I got these numbers from your Summit link.

 

[Spareparts]

The cam specs i listed from comp, list the ABDC as 37
Now if i use the .050 numbers and add 15 like you used earlier the ABDC is 44.5
If i use 212int and 218ex it says 37 ABDC like the specs i posted above. and come very close to matching all the specs.
If i put 37 into the DCR it lists a cranking pressure at 213.12psi and that just does not seem right to me like the chart i posted above.
Maybe im not understanding the problem or the solution?

 

[Indycars]

Just to be clear, we need the IVC when the valve actually closes or touches the seat. This is usually measured when the valve is .006" off the seat and is also how they measure "Advertised Duration" or in this case 264°/270°. The 37° must be at .050" of lift, although they don't say. Adding 15° to 37° equals 52°, so I don't see how you got 44.5°?

Have you tried using the calculator on the 2nd page of the DCR calculator?

 

[Spareparts]

Yes im using the calculator on pg2 of the DCR.

 

[Spareparts]

I added 15 to the 212/218, 2 degrees advance and come up with 44.5

 

[Spareparts]

Back to the random misfires. I'm thinking that noise you can hear in the video might be lifters not oiling properly.
I have been through all the electrical on the truck and it's not electrical.
I think the next step will be taking the valve covers off. See if i can see anything when running. If nothing apparent then the lower intake needs to come off. It is anyway
I believe it has to be something in the valve train. Compression is nearly even on all cylinders and it passes a leak down check.
The rocker arms are "net lash" so no adjustment.
Here is what i think is going on.
The lifters provided by the machine shop are cheap chinese lifters. I traced the brand from the part number listed on the machine shop receipt and the set of 16 can be bought on parts geek for $95.
They are bleeding off but not enough to tap. I think they are bleeding off on the opening event not allowing the engine to breathe properly causing the random misfires.
Sound reasonable or just dumb?

 

[Grumpy]

Id suggest you pour a full quart of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL in the engine, and a couple cans of two different brands of injector cleaner / solvent in the fuel tank and let it run for an hour , or drive the car a day or so,
before you do any parts swap, as the stuff really does loosen stuck lifters rather frequently at times
obviously the oil supplement/crud solvent/additive blend can't repair worn or broken or miss adjusted valve train components but it does dissolve crud and loosen stuck parts most of the time
BTW
if the oil and filter have over about 4-5K miles Id swap the oil for a synthetic 5w20, VALVOLINE OR MOBILE ONE and get a new WIX or PUROLATOR or similar long length oil filter ( OBVIOUSLY with the proper part number for your car/truck/engine,)

as that can also help loosen stuck lifters

 

[Indycars]

Since we are given the "Seat-to-Seat" duration, which is the same thing as "Advertised Duration" we can use those numbers and not have to estimate. The "Lobe Separation Angle" (LSA) is 113° is also given. The only number left now is the "Advance/Retard", let's use 2°.

Please post the Cam Card when you get the cam today ! It will likely have more info.

Xtreme Energy Computer Controlled 212/218 Hydraulic Roller Cam Chevrolet Big Block GEN VI

Xtreme Energy Computer Controlled 212/218 Hydraulic Roller Cam for Chevy Big Block GEN VI. Great for towing applications. Very good low RPM torque. Works with fuel injection.

www.compcams.com

.

 

[Indycars]

@Grumpy
Just so others know, are you promoting a "Racing Oil Filter" for street use???

 

[Grumpy]

no I was simply stating, you should generally BUY the longest LENGTH oil filter from the listed sources, that will fit the application, as a longer filter medium tends to last longer and be less restrictive to oil flow

get a new WIX or PUROLATOR or similar long length oil filter ( OBVIOUSLY with the proper part number for your car/truck/engine,)

not necessarily any race or non race design
while were at suggestions
Id also suggest anyone serious about engine maintenance buy a oil filter cutter to inspect the filter medium after oil changes for indications of bearing failure/wear issues
I see them on amazon prime for under $40 part number 66490

Proform Parts 66490 Proform Oil Filter Cutters | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Proform Oil Filter Cutters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Filter Cutters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Indycars]

no I was simply stating, you should generally BUY the longest LENGTH oil filter from the listed sources

That's what I thought, because Racing Filters give up filtering the smaller particles for higher flow rate. If you change oil after every race, then there is not many small particles to filter.

It's obvious when you look at these two Wix air filters, the white one is the racing version of the same part number.

 

[Spareparts]

Well as normal my cam will be a day late so no cam card to post today
I have close to 1500 miles on the engine and 3 oil changes using WIX 51060 filters.
The first at 500 miles and there were some small flecks of metal in the filter. Oil was break in oil but i can not remember the brand. Blame age i guess.
Ran it for another 500 miles with Mobile 1, 5/30 full synthetic. Checked filter and 0 metal or anything.
Have about 500 miles (ish) on the 3rd oil change using Mobile 1, 5/30. Will be changing it again this weekend after the cam/lifter/spring swap and ill for sure check this filter also but i suspect its clean also.

 

[Spareparts]

I did not know Seat to seat and advertised duration were the same thing. Thanks Indycars!

 

[Indycars]

I have close to 1500 miles on the engine and 3 oil changes using WIX 51060 filters

You certainly are taking care to remove all the metal that initially ends up in the oil. I use the same filter, except it's the 51060XP. Which means it has the synthetic filter media.

Another misunderstood term is LSA and LCA, they both describe the same camshaft parameter.

LSA = Lobe Separation Angle = LCA = Lobe Centerline Angle [Both measured in camshaft degrees]



Something I don't see very often in camshaft timing numbers is one that is "Negative" which is what yours has. Since programs like my Dynomation are not able to change the field labels such as BTDC or ATDC like in your case for the IVO = (-5° BTDC) and EVC = (-6° ATDC) @ .050. What this is really saying is IVO = (+5 ATDC) and EVC = (+6° BTDC). See the graphic below.

 

[Grumpy]

LSA lobe separation angle is locked into the cam when its ground and can not change,
if its ground at 110,degrees or 114 degrees it will stay that figure
and
LCA lobe center angle, can be changed as the cams indexed location in relation to the engines TDC, can be advanced or retarded
if you advance the cam 4 degrees both the intake and exhaust lobe opening and closing points open and close 4 degrees earlier.
if you RETARD the cam 4 degrees both the intake and exhaust lobe opening and closing points open and close 4 degrees later.
if the cams degreed in at split overlap or STRAIT UP, its not indexed 4 degrees advanced as many cams are if installed with the timing chain, crank DOT-TO-DOT index

degree it in correctly and get it to last,cam install info,

IM frequently asked (why bother degreeing in a cam, the timing set comes with index marks to install it?) it basically comes down to, a question of do you accept a random install where the timing can be almost any place randomly or do you insist on maximizing the engines potential and know...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

[Indycars]

LCA lobe center angle, can be changed

I see we disagree about the term "LCA" or Lobe Center Angle or Lobe Centerline Angle. There seems to be differing opinions on this term. I seeme it explained both ways. To me we are talking abut the lobes and their angles, so it's the angle between the lobes and is ground into the camshaft. Bottom line, be careful when talking about this parameter!

ICA Intake Centerline Angle speaks to the valve and is a value that can be changed.

Camshaft Selection - Engine Builder Magazine

“What camshaft should I use?” How many times have you been asked or heard that question uttered? Why is it so difficult to choose the “correct” camshaft for an engine build? What separates one camshaft design from the other? After all, isn’t it true that a camshaft opens and closes valves...

www.enginebuildermag.com

Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) or Lobe Centerline Angle (LCA)- is the only camshaft specification rated in cam degrees, not crankshaft degrees. Lobe separation is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points of the intake and exhaust valves. LSA is the result of the placement of the intake and exhaust lobes on the camshaft and cannot be changed unless the cam is reground.

The manual for Dynomation calls it "Lobe Center Angle".

Demystifying the Camshaft: Part 2 – Terminology - Page 3 of 3 - MotoIQ

, Duration @ 0.XXX”: This refers to the number degrees of crankshaft rotation that the valve is open, commonly measured between the point that the cam follower (rocker arm, lifter,…

motoiq.com

This is a measurement (in crankshaft degrees) of the angle between the camshaft centerline at TDC, and the point of maximum lift on each lobe. This is measured at TDC of the exhaust stroke (overlap phase) as opposed to compression stroke.

 

[Spareparts]

Here is the cam card from the new cam. It does not list anyplace the advance or retard. Am i missing something?

 

[Spareparts]

I don't have a degree wheel so I'm just trusting the dot to dot install using a Cloyes timing set.

 

[Spareparts]

Curious what your opinion is on pumping up the lifters before install or just dip them in oil making sure the body and rollers are well oiled then install?