NewbVetteGuy
Well-Known Member
All, I really need some help on this.
Slowly over time, I'm becoming aware that I probably have significant lifter-to-lifter bore clearance issues that I need to address before I start my engine the first time and massively break stuff...
Background on my engine and lifter situation: Rebuilt the 350 SBC out of my 1979 Corvette and converted it to a roller cam, and used Johnson Roller Lifters (https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/Hydraulic-Roller-Lifters/ST2112SBR#31092-description), I told the machine shop to "check everything that should be checked and let me know if anything doesn't look right" -they never checked the lifter bores because I never told them to. -I assumed that if I'm buying lifters for a small block chevy and the previous cam and lifters were fine, that the new ones would be too... (Dangerous, I am now realizing).
I reassembled the engine and added tried to install the roller lifters into the bores AFTER installing the heads -then I found 3 lifters on the driver's side that just wouldn't push down into the lifter bores- they were CONSIDERABLY too tight to seat onto the cam lobe. -I bought an appropriate sized Flex Hone, then JB welded half of a pushrod checker to extend the length so that I could ball hone the lifter bores with the heads still installed. I did this with new shop rags stuck on top of the cam and under each lifter bore to catch any "crud". Then I cleaned out the lifter bore with a nylon engine cleaning brush and gratuitous amounts of WD40.
-I didn't measure because although I have a micrometer and a bore gauge, I don't trust my own accuracy using them. Everytime I measured myself and then had the machine shop check, they kinda laughed at my measurements (they showed me a better technique and I got CLOSER to their measurements, but never exactly their measurements)- this is my first time using micrometers or bore gauges. I also didn't know what the clearances should be. -I just honed until the lifters would go down in the bores like the other lifters that "felt right".
The plot thickens Part 1: When I went to oil prime the engine, I bought an oil prime tool online that was a piece of junk and it was the wrong length and just let tons of oil pass, so I took my old distributor that I didn't need any more and hacked it up to make it into an oil priming too and it worked GREAT, BUT: most of the driver's side rockers took FOREVER to actually get oil to the top end. Within a couple of minutes the passenger side had oil coming through all the rockers, but it took 15-20 minutes to get oil through every single driver's side rocker. -At the time, I just thought "this is a thing that happens" and didn't think about lifter to bore clearances. I THOUGHT that oil traveled through the lifter's body and then up through the pushrod - I still don't fully understand how oil passes around the lifter and up to the top of the lifter because of the lifter-to-bore clearances and makes its way up the pushrod, although some other things I've read have said that's definitely and important path.
The plot thickens Part 2: The past few weekends I've been connecting the torque converter to the flywheel and getting the starter and electrical hooked back up and was shocked at how hard it was to turn over the engine. There was ZERO chance I could turn it over with my hands on the flywheel. I had to buy one of the crank turner tools that's essentially a giant screw driver with a 2nd ARM to pull on the fly wheel in two places simultaneously and someone said "this is an indicator that something's wrong". ---Then I remembered my lifter challenges and how long it took to get oil up to the top of the driver's side rockers...
I was told before that "if the lifters are a little tight it's not a big deal, they'll self-clearance". I had also heard that "lifter steel and the block's iron expand and a nearly identical rate so the hot clearance is the same as the cold clearance". --But now I'm encountering professional engine builders who say that the hot oil flowing through the lifters will absolutely make them expand more than the liter bores and stuck lifters in a bore is a common occurence with too tight of a lifter to bore clearance.
I've done SOME "home work" and I believe that Johnson lifters are particularly on the larger side.
What should the lifter to lifter bore clearance be? -I believe a good clearance for a hyd ROLLER lifter is in the .0015"-.0018" range.
I've watched THIS video on how to properly measure the lifters and the bore (Although they don't say WHERE on the lifter body to measure the lifters), so now I think I know how to do the measuring properly. -Definitely not convinced I can measure even close to .0001 accuracy, which seems to be required to do this right, but I DO think at this point that I probably need to pull the intake and check those tight lifters again and get to a point where the oil is properly flowing up to the rockers.
My understanding is that the lifter should make a slightly / light tick when wiggled back and forth in the bore, but a loud or significant tick is way too much clearance.
I'm simply not going to pull the engine out and take it to a machine shop and tear it all the way back down at this point. I need need to do a bit more dilligence- the most I can do with the engine in the car and the heads still on it to try to make sure that the lifter to lifter bore clearances are good enough. After that, if it blows up on startup, or quickly after, we'll, it's my first engine build and I'll just buy a new short block and go from there.
Definitely looking for input as lifter-to-bore clearances and the oil flow around lifters and how it gets up to the pushrod is all mysterious stuff I was hoping that I didn't need to know about.
This feels like "One step forward, Five steps back" this time...
Adam
Slowly over time, I'm becoming aware that I probably have significant lifter-to-lifter bore clearance issues that I need to address before I start my engine the first time and massively break stuff...
Background on my engine and lifter situation: Rebuilt the 350 SBC out of my 1979 Corvette and converted it to a roller cam, and used Johnson Roller Lifters (https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/Hydraulic-Roller-Lifters/ST2112SBR#31092-description), I told the machine shop to "check everything that should be checked and let me know if anything doesn't look right" -they never checked the lifter bores because I never told them to. -I assumed that if I'm buying lifters for a small block chevy and the previous cam and lifters were fine, that the new ones would be too... (Dangerous, I am now realizing).
I reassembled the engine and added tried to install the roller lifters into the bores AFTER installing the heads -then I found 3 lifters on the driver's side that just wouldn't push down into the lifter bores- they were CONSIDERABLY too tight to seat onto the cam lobe. -I bought an appropriate sized Flex Hone, then JB welded half of a pushrod checker to extend the length so that I could ball hone the lifter bores with the heads still installed. I did this with new shop rags stuck on top of the cam and under each lifter bore to catch any "crud". Then I cleaned out the lifter bore with a nylon engine cleaning brush and gratuitous amounts of WD40.
-I didn't measure because although I have a micrometer and a bore gauge, I don't trust my own accuracy using them. Everytime I measured myself and then had the machine shop check, they kinda laughed at my measurements (they showed me a better technique and I got CLOSER to their measurements, but never exactly their measurements)- this is my first time using micrometers or bore gauges. I also didn't know what the clearances should be. -I just honed until the lifters would go down in the bores like the other lifters that "felt right".
The plot thickens Part 1: When I went to oil prime the engine, I bought an oil prime tool online that was a piece of junk and it was the wrong length and just let tons of oil pass, so I took my old distributor that I didn't need any more and hacked it up to make it into an oil priming too and it worked GREAT, BUT: most of the driver's side rockers took FOREVER to actually get oil to the top end. Within a couple of minutes the passenger side had oil coming through all the rockers, but it took 15-20 minutes to get oil through every single driver's side rocker. -At the time, I just thought "this is a thing that happens" and didn't think about lifter to bore clearances. I THOUGHT that oil traveled through the lifter's body and then up through the pushrod - I still don't fully understand how oil passes around the lifter and up to the top of the lifter because of the lifter-to-bore clearances and makes its way up the pushrod, although some other things I've read have said that's definitely and important path.
The plot thickens Part 2: The past few weekends I've been connecting the torque converter to the flywheel and getting the starter and electrical hooked back up and was shocked at how hard it was to turn over the engine. There was ZERO chance I could turn it over with my hands on the flywheel. I had to buy one of the crank turner tools that's essentially a giant screw driver with a 2nd ARM to pull on the fly wheel in two places simultaneously and someone said "this is an indicator that something's wrong". ---Then I remembered my lifter challenges and how long it took to get oil up to the top of the driver's side rockers...
I was told before that "if the lifters are a little tight it's not a big deal, they'll self-clearance". I had also heard that "lifter steel and the block's iron expand and a nearly identical rate so the hot clearance is the same as the cold clearance". --But now I'm encountering professional engine builders who say that the hot oil flowing through the lifters will absolutely make them expand more than the liter bores and stuck lifters in a bore is a common occurence with too tight of a lifter to bore clearance.
I've done SOME "home work" and I believe that Johnson lifters are particularly on the larger side.
What should the lifter to lifter bore clearance be? -I believe a good clearance for a hyd ROLLER lifter is in the .0015"-.0018" range.
I've watched THIS video on how to properly measure the lifters and the bore (Although they don't say WHERE on the lifter body to measure the lifters), so now I think I know how to do the measuring properly. -Definitely not convinced I can measure even close to .0001 accuracy, which seems to be required to do this right, but I DO think at this point that I probably need to pull the intake and check those tight lifters again and get to a point where the oil is properly flowing up to the rockers.
My understanding is that the lifter should make a slightly / light tick when wiggled back and forth in the bore, but a loud or significant tick is way too much clearance.
I'm simply not going to pull the engine out and take it to a machine shop and tear it all the way back down at this point. I need need to do a bit more dilligence- the most I can do with the engine in the car and the heads still on it to try to make sure that the lifter to lifter bore clearances are good enough. After that, if it blows up on startup, or quickly after, we'll, it's my first engine build and I'll just buy a new short block and go from there.
Definitely looking for input as lifter-to-bore clearances and the oil flow around lifters and how it gets up to the pushrod is all mysterious stuff I was hoping that I didn't need to know about.
This feels like "One step forward, Five steps back" this time...
Adam
