I always suggest you ask yourself if you would choose to have your life depend on the accuracy, dependability and lethality of the handgun you carry ,
or are you simply selecting that handgun due to its cost or small size?
picture yourself confronted by a determined drug crazed criminal who is determined to kill you and your family, hes also well armed,
you've got only seconds to react,would you by choice grab your current concealed carry choice?
or would you prefer to have something with a bit more accuracy, punch and shot capacity?
Id bet a great many people would prefer to grab something a bit more lethal.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
recent developments in projectile design have provided remarkable improvements in all handgun performance,
but the well documented , and well proven basic concept,
of the need for a well placed shot and a larger diam hole,
or several,in rapid succession,
in the antagonists vitals still proves too be valid.
only accurately placed shots to the antagonists vitals that penetrate from any angle count!
If you cant draw and place the first shot or two accurately, in seconds your likely dead.
I know what I choose and why I chose to carry what I do,
but every person will make a choice based on his or her personal experience and preferences.
GLOCK, 9mm, 45 acp, 10mm?
S&W 357 mag revolver?
COLT 45 ACP, 9MM?
BERETTA 9MM, 40 CAL?
SIG ?
it helps if you keep in mind that the projectile you select does all the work and that theres a wide variation in projectile designs and the differences can and do change the results you can reasonably expect to see, generally larger diameter and heavier projectiles moving at higher speeds can impart significantly greater damage and penetration to the target they impact.
as the heavier projectiles moving at higher speeds induce higher levels of recoil it generally requires more practice too learn too place shots consistently and accurately.
EXAMPLE
the FBI has determined that a pistol or rifle projectile that will consistently exceed at least 12" of penetration, but not exceed about 18" of penetration in ballistic gel to produce the desired results on a human target without having a huge potential for producing external damage well beyond the intended target once it passed through that target.
S&W 1006 10mm
personally I've come to see the 357 mag, 10mm and 41 mag as about the ideal compromise in power potential range, accuracy, penetration and accuracy in controllable size and concealable handguns , provided the correct ammos used in a quality handgun of course, in the ideal world you want the ability to rapidly and repeatedly and accurately place your shots out to a reasonable distance, that means excessive recoil is to be avoided, of course your skill and practice level effects your choice and ability to do that.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/16/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/
http://www.brassfetcher.com/FBI Ammunition Protocol/FBI Ammunition Protocol.html
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ment-that-makes-the-hand-gun-effective.14258/
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/05/how-does-your-ammo-stack-up-117-handgun-loads-compared/
http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm
https://www.clearballistics.com/?_v...MI9_rI4PPV1wIVW1gNCh3dsQpREAMYASAAEgIJT_D_BwE
ID ALSO POINT OUT that the fbi has recently started swapping to the 9mm luger cartridge as its lower recoil makes it easier for the less skilled and less practiced agents to hit targets (they claim the newer ammo is far superior to the old 9mm ammo that failed miserably in the 1980s miami shootout that caused them to swap to the 10mm with its vastly better terminal performance, but as you may know the higher recoil made the less skilled and under practiced agents much less effective are accurate pistol use, so rather than requiring the agents practice, until they mastered the larger and more effective cartridge they went back to the lower powered cartridge.
they claim the slight increase in cartridge capacity, and thus potential shots available, makes up for the lack of individual projectile performance.
(the concept of making your shots count and accurate shot placement seems lost on the "SPRAY AND PRAY" mentality)
this seems a bit like the military where the 223 has a less than ideal reputation and the 7.62 has long been considered far more effective, but because the average soldier can carry twice as many 223 vs 7.62 for the weight , and the 223 is easier to control under full auto fire ,the 223 was selected.
(personally Id rather trust my lift to a m 14 and carry 300 cartridges than a ar 15 with 600 cartridges) simply because I know the m14 reaches out further punches through more cover and one decent center mass hits usually fatal, and the guy behind the guy can also be killed.
having concealed carry legal cost insurance may be a huge financial life saver
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/concealed-carry-liability-insurance.14222/
the reality of a gun fight is that , if your forced to fight you MUST disable your opponent as rapidly and as effectively as you can too, prevail .... thats best accomplished by TOTALLY disabling your attacker and thats best accomplished by AVOIDING PERSONAL INJURY, and firing , a pistol thats 100% dependable , and that pistol has too be, both very rapidly accessible and accurate , a pistol that allows you to place your shots where they can do maximum damage ,and that demands you know anatomy and have the ability to rapidly and accurately place shots on target, as only MULTIPLE center mass hits are likely to do major damage, and decades of experience in the military and police work, indicate,you need at least 400 ft lbs to 500 ft lbs of energy , thats done with shots placed on the opponents vitals in my opinion, you won,t have the opportunity to precisely aim and squeeze off individual shots like you do at the target range.
theres been hundreds of thousands of cases where people have been shot with hand guns and not only survived but continued to fight, its obvious that both where your shots strike an opponent and the depth of penetration and a knowledge of human anatomy is critical to rapidly stopping a threat!
thus a good deal of practice at fairly close range (10 yards or less) and instinctive shooting will be helpful.
no common hand gun caliber, even a 44 mag can be totally depended on to drop an opponent with a single hit, unless its very well placed and you might not have that ability under all conditions.
while its shot placement and a knowledge of anatomy that are critical the selection of a dependable & accurate pistol with proven minimal power is a wise investment.
a bit of useful glock pistol generation info
rules you need to adhere too,
(1) if you don,t carry all the time chances are you won,t have it if you need it!
(2) you better have practiced and be competent, in any weapons use, you carry.
(3) be aware of your surroundings and trust no one you don,t know REALLY WELL.
(4) try to stay out of higher risk situations and areas
(5) try hard to NOT get into any confrontation, if confronted,
apologize even if its totally not your problem or fault.
(6) once you pull a gun your almost always going to need expensive lawyers,
even if your totally justified.
(7)
a great deal of your health and financial welfare,
depends on remaining fully aware of whats going on around you,
at all times and using common sense,
I read several of these threads almost monthly,
you may have made an great choice!
each of us obviously will have vastly different life experiences and priority's,
and this has nothing to do with your particular choice being good or bad,
I just hope most guys think through their options and practice regularly.
my B-I-L had carried his pistol for three years and only because of my verbal prodding did he fire it the first time!
Like my B-I-L, I see a lot of guys who are much more concerned with the size and weight and easy of concealment,
than in a carry pistols accuracy and potential assailant stopping potential,
or put a bit differently if you had access to any pistol you could afford to own,
and you were forced to defend yourself and family, would the pistol you would select, be the same one you carry concealed?
Id just suggest anyone who carries concealed think over the choice they make carefully,
chances are very good you'll never have to bet your life on the pistol you carry's effectively stopping some mugger or psychopath ,
but if your ever in that confrontation, would you by choice want to have that pistol as your only defensive tool over some other option.
obviously theres always a compromise, you will need to think through,
in cartridge power, magazine capacity,dependability,durability,
accuracy and ease of use. and the last thing you ever want to see is,
a situation where you fired and hit the threat,
or fired the weapon until its empty
without stopping the assailant(s)
example my B-I-L selected a pocket 380 double action only pistol, due to its small size and light weight,
at the local indoor range
where hes not under stress, he has difficulty consistently hitting a full size silhouette,s vitals, rapid fire at 5 yards
yet he still thinks its the ideal carry pistol.I just shake my head, and can,t grasp the reasoning.
[/B]
http://concealedcarryconfidence.org...ng-and-gear/?gclid=CL_xvOuK2c8CFQipaQodZlEJ6Q
http://sixguns.com/tests/tt10mm.htm
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...vs-concealment-in-a-defensive-hand-gun.14231/
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun
http://concealednation.org/2015/08/top-20-most-popular-concealed-carry-firearms-2015-edition/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/best-concealed-carry-handguns/?page=1
http://concealednation.org/2014/07/the-10-best-concealed-carry-guns/
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/readers-choice-real-list-the-13-concealed-carry-guns/
https://www.frontsight.com/landingpg-1.asp?src=gaw&kw=best concealed carry firearm&gclid=CPzy8Yqz8skCFYU-aQod80MM9Q
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...rry-pistols/#top-12-concealed-carry-pistols-2
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf/concealedcarrymagazineyourbest.pdf
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-useful-self-defense-pistol.13688/#post-70443
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...and-glock-20-21-30-29-leather-and-kydex-black
every choice is a compromise in several areas, and without rather extensive and continuing practice and a source of financially reasonable prices and access to ammo, your unlikely to do whats required to be proficient.
statistically most gunfights are at very close range and your not going to be placing precise shots.
the reason the 45 ACP, and 357 mag have good reputations is that they are proven to work, well, and theres been plenty of them in use over the decades.
(power, penetration, reasonable,accuracy, the weapons cartridge capacity, ease of reloading, carry weight, physical size, ease of concealment ,ease of use, the type of safety's or lack of, your unlikely to make a valid choice.) I rarely find anyone who can state exactly why they chose the particular caliber and type of pistol/revolver, most guys I talk with simply carry what they own, and few bought that particular pistol specifically and primarily as a concealed carry weapon.
the key here is you must carry your handgun constantly for it to be accessible when and if its ever needed and it damn sure better function , and have the necessary power when needed.
now if you do some research you'll quickly find there opinions that are all over the place on what might be an effective choice , but Id strongly suggest that you look into whats worked well historically, what your local laws allow to be used and to think through what might be one of the most important decisions you'll ever make!
theres always a trade-off in size & weight vs power and accuracy and if you don,t carry it daily its unlikely to be with you when its needed.
obviously the type of threats you could reasonably expect to encounter will be a major consideration as will the probable ranges of engagement.
IF YOU CARRY CONCEALED THIS MIGHT INTEREST YOU
http://ccwsafe.com/
http://legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm
http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/reciprocity.php
https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-a-spare-magazine-for-your-ccw-pistol.13934/
RELATED INFO
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tol-cartridge-stopping-power-potential.13710/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/selecting-a-good-self-defence-handgun.1128/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/concealed-weapons-work.7656/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-a-different-gun-due-to-the-theater-in.7502/
or are you simply selecting that handgun due to its cost or small size?
picture yourself confronted by a determined drug crazed criminal who is determined to kill you and your family, hes also well armed,
you've got only seconds to react,would you by choice grab your current concealed carry choice?
or would you prefer to have something with a bit more accuracy, punch and shot capacity?
Id bet a great many people would prefer to grab something a bit more lethal.
recent developments in projectile design have provided remarkable improvements in all handgun performance,
but the well documented , and well proven basic concept,
of the need for a well placed shot and a larger diam hole,
or several,in rapid succession,
in the antagonists vitals still proves too be valid.
only accurately placed shots to the antagonists vitals that penetrate from any angle count!
If you cant draw and place the first shot or two accurately, in seconds your likely dead.
I know what I choose and why I chose to carry what I do,
but every person will make a choice based on his or her personal experience and preferences.
GLOCK, 9mm, 45 acp, 10mm?
S&W 357 mag revolver?
COLT 45 ACP, 9MM?
BERETTA 9MM, 40 CAL?
SIG ?
it helps if you keep in mind that the projectile you select does all the work and that theres a wide variation in projectile designs and the differences can and do change the results you can reasonably expect to see, generally larger diameter and heavier projectiles moving at higher speeds can impart significantly greater damage and penetration to the target they impact.
as the heavier projectiles moving at higher speeds induce higher levels of recoil it generally requires more practice too learn too place shots consistently and accurately.
EXAMPLE
the FBI has determined that a pistol or rifle projectile that will consistently exceed at least 12" of penetration, but not exceed about 18" of penetration in ballistic gel to produce the desired results on a human target without having a huge potential for producing external damage well beyond the intended target once it passed through that target.
S&W 1006 10mm
10mm Auto Self-Defense Ammo Ballistic Gel Tests - LuckyGunner.com Labs
So far, our ballistics gelatin testing project has covered 184 different factory loads split across today’s six most popular handgun ... Continued
www.luckygunner.com
.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test - LuckyGunner.com Labs
We conducted ballistics gelatin tests for 38 self-defense revolver loads in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Here are the full results along with photos and video
www.luckygunner.com
10mm vs. .41 magnum for Bears
Note: We were shooting at a safe range with a safe backstop. Please do not try this at home. We are not advocating the sale of these firearms or ammunition. ...
www.youtube.com
10mm vs 357 - Handgun Cartridge Comparison by Ammo.com
When it comes to stopping power, 10mm vs 357 is too close to call. Both are exceptional self-defense rounds, but can a magnum revolver defeat a semi-auto handgun?
ammo.com
http://www.brassfetcher.com/FBI Ammunition Protocol/FBI Ammunition Protocol.html
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ment-that-makes-the-hand-gun-effective.14258/
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/05/how-does-your-ammo-stack-up-117-handgun-loads-compared/
http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm
https://www.clearballistics.com/?_v...MI9_rI4PPV1wIVW1gNCh3dsQpREAMYASAAEgIJT_D_BwE
they claim the slight increase in cartridge capacity, and thus potential shots available, makes up for the lack of individual projectile performance.
(the concept of making your shots count and accurate shot placement seems lost on the "SPRAY AND PRAY" mentality)
this seems a bit like the military where the 223 has a less than ideal reputation and the 7.62 has long been considered far more effective, but because the average soldier can carry twice as many 223 vs 7.62 for the weight , and the 223 is easier to control under full auto fire ,the 223 was selected.
(personally Id rather trust my lift to a m 14 and carry 300 cartridges than a ar 15 with 600 cartridges) simply because I know the m14 reaches out further punches through more cover and one decent center mass hits usually fatal, and the guy behind the guy can also be killed.
having concealed carry legal cost insurance may be a huge financial life saver
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/concealed-carry-liability-insurance.14222/
the reality of a gun fight is that , if your forced to fight you MUST disable your opponent as rapidly and as effectively as you can too, prevail .... thats best accomplished by TOTALLY disabling your attacker and thats best accomplished by AVOIDING PERSONAL INJURY, and firing , a pistol thats 100% dependable , and that pistol has too be, both very rapidly accessible and accurate , a pistol that allows you to place your shots where they can do maximum damage ,and that demands you know anatomy and have the ability to rapidly and accurately place shots on target, as only MULTIPLE center mass hits are likely to do major damage, and decades of experience in the military and police work, indicate,you need at least 400 ft lbs to 500 ft lbs of energy , thats done with shots placed on the opponents vitals in my opinion, you won,t have the opportunity to precisely aim and squeeze off individual shots like you do at the target range.
theres been hundreds of thousands of cases where people have been shot with hand guns and not only survived but continued to fight, its obvious that both where your shots strike an opponent and the depth of penetration and a knowledge of human anatomy is critical to rapidly stopping a threat!
thus a good deal of practice at fairly close range (10 yards or less) and instinctive shooting will be helpful.
no common hand gun caliber, even a 44 mag can be totally depended on to drop an opponent with a single hit, unless its very well placed and you might not have that ability under all conditions.
while its shot placement and a knowledge of anatomy that are critical the selection of a dependable & accurate pistol with proven minimal power is a wise investment.
a bit of useful glock pistol generation info
rules you need to adhere too,
(1) if you don,t carry all the time chances are you won,t have it if you need it!
(2) you better have practiced and be competent, in any weapons use, you carry.
(3) be aware of your surroundings and trust no one you don,t know REALLY WELL.
(4) try to stay out of higher risk situations and areas
(5) try hard to NOT get into any confrontation, if confronted,
apologize even if its totally not your problem or fault.
(6) once you pull a gun your almost always going to need expensive lawyers,
even if your totally justified.
(7)
a great deal of your health and financial welfare,
depends on remaining fully aware of whats going on around you,
at all times and using common sense,
I read several of these threads almost monthly,
you may have made an great choice!
each of us obviously will have vastly different life experiences and priority's,
and this has nothing to do with your particular choice being good or bad,
I just hope most guys think through their options and practice regularly.
my B-I-L had carried his pistol for three years and only because of my verbal prodding did he fire it the first time!
Like my B-I-L, I see a lot of guys who are much more concerned with the size and weight and easy of concealment,
than in a carry pistols accuracy and potential assailant stopping potential,
or put a bit differently if you had access to any pistol you could afford to own,
and you were forced to defend yourself and family, would the pistol you would select, be the same one you carry concealed?
Id just suggest anyone who carries concealed think over the choice they make carefully,
chances are very good you'll never have to bet your life on the pistol you carry's effectively stopping some mugger or psychopath ,
but if your ever in that confrontation, would you by choice want to have that pistol as your only defensive tool over some other option.
obviously theres always a compromise, you will need to think through,
in cartridge power, magazine capacity,dependability,durability,
accuracy and ease of use. and the last thing you ever want to see is,
a situation where you fired and hit the threat,
or fired the weapon until its empty
without stopping the assailant(s)
example my B-I-L selected a pocket 380 double action only pistol, due to its small size and light weight,
at the local indoor range
where hes not under stress, he has difficulty consistently hitting a full size silhouette,s vitals, rapid fire at 5 yards
yet he still thinks its the ideal carry pistol.I just shake my head, and can,t grasp the reasoning.
[/B]
http://concealedcarryconfidence.org...ng-and-gear/?gclid=CL_xvOuK2c8CFQipaQodZlEJ6Q
http://sixguns.com/tests/tt10mm.htm
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...vs-concealment-in-a-defensive-hand-gun.14231/
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun
http://concealednation.org/2015/08/top-20-most-popular-concealed-carry-firearms-2015-edition/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/best-concealed-carry-handguns/?page=1
http://concealednation.org/2014/07/the-10-best-concealed-carry-guns/
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/readers-choice-real-list-the-13-concealed-carry-guns/
https://www.frontsight.com/landingpg-1.asp?src=gaw&kw=best concealed carry firearm&gclid=CPzy8Yqz8skCFYU-aQod80MM9Q
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...rry-pistols/#top-12-concealed-carry-pistols-2
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf/concealedcarrymagazineyourbest.pdf
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-useful-self-defense-pistol.13688/#post-70443
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...and-glock-20-21-30-29-leather-and-kydex-black
every choice is a compromise in several areas, and without rather extensive and continuing practice and a source of financially reasonable prices and access to ammo, your unlikely to do whats required to be proficient.
statistically most gunfights are at very close range and your not going to be placing precise shots.
the reason the 45 ACP, and 357 mag have good reputations is that they are proven to work, well, and theres been plenty of them in use over the decades.
(power, penetration, reasonable,accuracy, the weapons cartridge capacity, ease of reloading, carry weight, physical size, ease of concealment ,ease of use, the type of safety's or lack of, your unlikely to make a valid choice.) I rarely find anyone who can state exactly why they chose the particular caliber and type of pistol/revolver, most guys I talk with simply carry what they own, and few bought that particular pistol specifically and primarily as a concealed carry weapon.
the key here is you must carry your handgun constantly for it to be accessible when and if its ever needed and it damn sure better function , and have the necessary power when needed.
now if you do some research you'll quickly find there opinions that are all over the place on what might be an effective choice , but Id strongly suggest that you look into whats worked well historically, what your local laws allow to be used and to think through what might be one of the most important decisions you'll ever make!
theres always a trade-off in size & weight vs power and accuracy and if you don,t carry it daily its unlikely to be with you when its needed.
obviously the type of threats you could reasonably expect to encounter will be a major consideration as will the probable ranges of engagement.
IF YOU CARRY CONCEALED THIS MIGHT INTEREST YOU
http://ccwsafe.com/
http://legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm
http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/reciprocity.php
https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-a-spare-magazine-for-your-ccw-pistol.13934/
RELATED INFO
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tol-cartridge-stopping-power-potential.13710/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/selecting-a-good-self-defence-handgun.1128/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/concealed-weapons-work.7656/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-a-different-gun-due-to-the-theater-in.7502/
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