LS cam?


Well-Known Member
Hey all,
So I got this C6, w/ an LS3. And of course, "stock's not good enough". :D

So, I'm ready to do the dirty and pop a cam in (and a couple other bolt-ons). I've been reading through all this wonderful cam info, but my eyes just glaze over. So I'd like some assistance in spec'ing a cam.

I know the effects I'd like to see, but am afraid that the cam I'm planning on is going to be too small for my liking. Not to mention, a cam install on a C6 is no small undertaking. So I don't want to put in all that effort and be disappointed.

What the car would be if I were to install everything today...

Stock LS3 shortblock
224/232, .625, 113* cam
Dual Springs/Hardened Pushrods
Cold Air Intake
1 3/4" long tube headers/3"-2 1/2" catted x-pipe/stock Corvette NPP mufflers
160* stat
Ported TB/Intake

A6 trans - 1st - 4.027, 2nd - 2.364, 3rd - 1.532, 4th - 1.152, 5th -0.852, 6th -0.667
Rear - 2.56

To be used primarily on the street/highway, but with the occasional (maybe 2-3 times a yr.) 1/4-mile bonding with the in-laws.

Everything I can find that's close, or any info on this grind says I'm leaving power on the table. But I don't know how much, or at what cost to drivability and manners. I feel like a could go with a little more and still be happy with the manners.

Any help or info?

Thanks. :)


Well-Known Member
If anybody's got cam software, would you mind running the numbers on a
228/236, .625, 114* grind?


Staff member

I think youll find this interesting

LS1 Camshaft Dyno Test - LS1 Camshaft RoundUp, Part 1 - Tech
A Stock LS1, An Engine Dyno, And The Largest Camshafts We Could Get Our Grubby Little Hands On . . .
Justin Cesler Mar 10, 2011 1 Comment(s)

View Full Gallery
"Streetability" be damned-this is an all out, big boy camshaft test for the diehard LS1 crowd. Our rules were simple: If it fits in a stock LS1 and you keep it on the shelf, we want to test it. Can it idle in gear with the A/C on? Who cares! This is a test for people looking for maximum power, torque, and brute force, without any compromises. Whether you're a hardcore drag racer or an internet chest thumper, the question of "what would happen if . . . " has probably crossed your mind, and we're here to try and figure it all out. Granted, testing camshafts for the average daily driver, like many of us, has its place, and we love doing in-depth testing on camshafts for those situations ("Battle of the Bumpsticks," Nov. '09 issue), but for the next couple of issues, our concern will be maximum power on a stock LS1 bottom end. Are these for everyone? No. Are they even a good idea on most streetcars? Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't our current concern.

After weeks of phone calls, meetings, and bench racing sessions, we contacted several companies about our test. For some, our all or nothing approach seemed a little strange, but to others, like Comp Cams and Vengeance Racing, the camshafts couldn't ship fast enough. We also decided to team up with Bob Wise and the crew at RaceKrafters in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to make sure our testing was accurate, repeatable, and consistent. It didn't hurt that Bob was an old racer with a serious passion for quality testing, and once we got going, Bob was able to interject some excellent "side tests," which we will also feature as we go along. On the following pages, you will find the results of each camshaft versus the stock LS1 and notes on each test. If you're thinking about a cam swap or you're already running a large camshaft, most of the data here should be of interest to you. For those advanced readers, we have found some interesting nuances with lift, LSA, and header design, which should help tweak your combinations. For now, here's what Comp Cams and Vengeance Racing had to offer and the results should speak for themselves. Without further ado, we present the first part of our multi-issue test and we look forward to hearing from you if you have any questions, concerns, or ideas for future camshaft testing.

Testing Procedure and Camshaft Guidelines
As with any test, it's imperative to maintain strict guidelines to ensure valid results. Below, you will find our procedures for testing, along with our camshaft specification guidelines. While the former was very specific, the latter was left wide open, allowing manufacturers and builders to spec camshafts to their liking.

Install camshaft and related valvetrain components
Degree the camshaft, install to correct specs, +/- .5 degree
Establish solid idle, check base timing, set 27 degrees of total timing
Oil temperature: 130° F, +/- 10
Water temperature: 155° F, +/- 10
Power pull, maintain solid AFR and timing, validate data
Two additional power pulls, extract best run and record Rinse and repeat, allowing ample time for cool down
Camshaft specs:
If it fits in a stock LS1, it's in the test
Must be an off-the-shelf grind, no custom camshafts
No fly cutting, no head gasket spacing, no tricks
Comp Cams springs, retainers, pushrods, and timing set Everything else goes!

Before running wild and changing parts, it was crucial to establish a solid baseline. Our test engine has lived most of its life on the engine dyno at RaceKrafters in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and Bob Wise, RaceKrafters president, has made sure to keep it in tip-top shape to ensure valid testing. The short-block is actually from a '98 Corvette, with a completely stock rotating assembly right down to the factory rings. Up top, Bob replaced the factory LS1 heads with a fresh set of the later (241) casting LS1 units and swapped intake manifolds, ditching the LS1 in favor of a better flowing LS6, along with a matching throttle body. Since all testing was done on an engine dyno, we used a set of 1.75-inch long-tube headers, which flow into dual 2.5-inch exhaust pipes and 2.5-inch Flowmaster mufflers, to replicate real world results. Otherwise, everything else on our test engine remained stock, with the exception of the water pump, which was swapped for a Meziere electric unit, to help keep water flowing through the engine in between runs in order to maintain consistent temperatures and help prevent heat-soak. Comp's new line of Muscle Car & Street Rod engine oil, in the 10W30 variety, was used to keep the 5.7L well lubricated. As expected, our initial runs, after bringing the engine oil and water up to temperature, were in the 400hp range, hitting a maximum of 418 hp and 422 lb-ft of torque. If those numbers seem a bit high to you, keep in mind that they're on an engine dyno and not to the wheels, which would show a loss around 15 percent, bringing our estimated rear-wheel horsepower to 355.3, about perfect for a well appointed bolt-on LS1.

224/230 Duration, .581/.592-Inch Lift, 114 LSA

Comp Cams 224/230 duration, .581/.592-inch lift, 114 LSA camshaft (PN 54-444-11) serves as a mildly updated version of an LS1 favorite, the single pattern 224, which has served GMHTP enthusiasts well for over a decade. While certainly not a large camshaft by today's standards, the 224/230 has enough duration to give it a great idle, while still making a considerable amount of horsepower and torque over a stock camshaft. For our first test, we installed the 224/230 camshaft, along with a set of Comp Cams 918 valvesprings (PN 26918-16), 7-degree titanium retainers (PN 762-1), 7.350-inch pushrods (PN 7950-16), and Comp's keyway adjustable billet timing set (PN 7102). During the install, to ensure valid testing, Bob made sure to degree in, or at least verify the proper positioning of each camshaft prior to making runs. With the parts installed, we fired up the dyno and made some initial adjustments to the tune, using a FAST XFI engine management. From baseline to the end, we chose to run each camshaft with 27 degrees of total timing and safe air/fuel ratios. Of course, each camshaft profile could probably be further optimized by a change in timing or a different air/fuel ratio, but for our testing we chose to keep each locked to ensure quality scientific testing.

One of the 224/230's most obvious advantages over the stock camshaft was peak power, coming in at 463.2 hp at 6,300 rpm, a gain of 45.2 hp. Where the stock camshaft made peak power of 418 at 6,000, the 224/230 was already over 418 hp by 5,100 rpm, bringing in the power almost 900 rpm sooner and making 41.1 hp over the stock camshaft at that RPM. Up top, the stock camshaft fell off fast, making under 400 hp by 6,400 rpm. The 224/230, on the other hand, held to 441.1 hp at 6,900 rpm-just think of the enjoyment you'd get from allowing some extra time in each gear with this bumpstick. Torque was also up by 10.6 lb-ft, maxing out at 432.6 lb-ft at 4,800 rpm, the same RPM as the stock unit. More importantly, the 224/230 carried peak torque much further than the stock camshaft, making over 400 lb-ft from 3,200 to 6,000 rpm, which would make street driving this setup rewarding.

224/230-Duration, .581/.592-Inch Lift, 114 LSA -- FAST LSXR 102mm Intake Manifold

You didn't think we could test all of these camshafts without wondering what a new intake manifold would do, did you? In true go big or go home fashion, we decided to ditch the stock LS6 intake manifold and 75mm throttle body for a new FAST LSXR 102mm manifold (PN 146302) with a matching 102mm throttle body (PN 54102), fuel rails (PN 146033), and Precision-Flow 33 lb/hr injectors (PN 30332-8). On a stock cubic-inch LS1, the 102mm intake manifold may sound large, and many people have argued over its merits on such an application, which made it perfect for our test. As you would expect, the FAST intake bolts directly in place of the old LS6 and everything hooked back up perfectly. After bringing the engine up to temp and checking for leaks, Bob made a couple of test runs with the new manifold, recording a peak 475.5 hp and 437.5 lb-ft of torque, a gain of 12.3 hp and 4.9 lb-ft over our previous 224/230 testing. Interestingly, the FAST LSXR 102 did give up some low end torque below 4,000 rpm, to the tune of 7 lb-ft, but by 4,100 rpm, the FAST was already pulling ahead, carrying torque all the way to 6,900 rpm, where it was still up 11.3 lb-ft. Horsepower, obviously, followed suit, up 14.8 hp at 6,900 and holding over 470 hp from 6,000 rpm all the way until 6,800, as opposed to the LS6, which never even made 470hp peak. Peak power was moved up by 200 rpm, coming in at 6,500 compared to the LS6 peaking at 6,300. Going forward, all testing will be done with the FAST LSXR 102, for consistency and power.

231/239-Duration, .617/.624-Inch Lift, 113 LSA

Knowing what our 224/230 camshaft did, the next logical step was to add more duration and lift to see what effect they would have on the overall power and the general curve. Comp Cams sent us a nice 231/239-duration, .617/.624-inch lift camshaft on a 113 LSA (PN 54-459-11), which serves as a great camshaft for someone looking for a little more power without giving up huge chunks of mid-range torque. Along with the camshaft, we also installed a set of double valvesprings (PN 26926TI-KIT), which are rated to .675-inch of lift, to help keep us safe. Compared to the stock camshaft, we saw nice gains of 67.9 hp and 17.0 lb-ft of torque, bringing our final numbers to 485.9 hp and 439.0 lb-ft of torque. Where the stock camshaft peaked at 6,000 rpm, the 231/239 was already over that power by 5,100 and then it came on strong, making over 480 hp from 6,200-6,900, and finally falling off around 7,200 rpm. No doubt, the 231/239 can be spun much harder than the stock camshaft without giving up any power. Torque was also up 17 lb-ft and, amazingly, made over 400 lb-ft from 3,500 to 6,300 rpm, which tells us this camshaft would pull great on the street with a little bit of gear or a mild stall converter. Of course, to make all that steam up top, the 231/239 did give up some torque down low, but came in stride by 4,100 rpm.

240/244-duration, .608/.596-inch lift, 112 LSA

Known to many as the Vindicator, our next camshaft in the test was ground by Comp Cams to Vengeance Racing's specifications. With 240/244 degrees of duration and a somewhat mild .608/.596-inches of lift, the Vindicator works hard by keeping the valves open longer, instead of pushing the valve farther into the stock combustion chamber. Right off the bat, we noticed the 240/244 had the most wicked idle of the group and sounded mean throughout the dyno session. Peak power recorded at 496.2 hp and 436.6 lb-ft of torque, gains of 78.2 hp and 14.6 lb-ft of torque over our stock baseline. The 240/244 brought massive power up top, with 400 hp on tap from 4,900 to 7,200 rpm, where power was still above 482 hp. In fact, from 6,200 to 6,900 rpm, horsepower never fell below 490, which was impressive. Average torque from 3,000-4,500 was up 2 lb-ft from stock, although the engine exhibited a noticeable dip from 3,700 to 4,300 rpm, something that all of the larger camshafts in our test did to some degree. For a daily driver with mild gearing or a small stall, the 240/244 would be sluggish down low, although once it was moving, power would be on tap for as long as you cared to stay in the throttle.

Step By Step
237/247-duration, .674/.674-inch lift, 115 LSA

Next up for testing, Comp Cams sent us the only custom grind unit in this test (we know, we said no custom grinds, but we had to try it!), a massive 237/247-duration, .674/.674-inch lift camshaft, which carries a 115-degree lobe separation angle. Being a custom, non-shelf unit, we were excited to see what this large cam was capable of, and after a couple of runs, the results were clear. With the engine up to operating temperature, we recorded 512.5 hp and 436.7 lb-ft of torque, gains of 94.5 hp and 14.7 lb-ft of torque over stock. The increased lift and duration of the Comp Cams custom grind laid on the power up top, recording over 500 hp from 6,300 to 7,000 rpm. Compared to the stock camshaft, which made 405.6 at 6,300, the 237/247 made 500.6, a truly impressive feat. Of course, with anything this impressive up top, low- and mid-range torque did drop, with average torque from 3,000 to 4,500 actually dropping 3.3 lb-ft off of the stock camshaft. Where we once had a small flat spot in torque, we now had a rather considerable dip from 3,700 to 4,400 rpm, although the 237/247 was able to best the stock cam as early as 4,600 rpm. Obviously, this isn't a camshaft for a daily driver or mild streetcar, but in the right combination, the 237/247 custom ground Comp cam would rock.

Step By Step
237/247-Duration, .674/.674-inch lift, 115 LSA + Open Long-tube Headers

Exploring our theory of the 237/247 in a more radical race build, Bob decided to unhook the 2.5-inch exhaust from our dyno mule and run the combination with open long-tube headers. The results fit in line with traditional thinking-we lost power and torque down low and gained it up top. Peak horsepower came in at 6,800 rpm, recording 527.3 hp, a gain of 109.3 over stock and 14.8 over the full exhaust. Peak torque was also up to 443.0, a gain of 21.0 over stock and 6.3 lb-ft over the full exhaust, but average torque from 3,000 to 4,500 rpm dropped 10.3 lb-ft over the stock camshaft and 7 lb-ft compared to the full exhaust. Comparing the two 237/247 graphs side by side, you can really get an idea of how important camshaft and exhaust relation is to a build, as one would drive rather crisply, while one with no exhaust would be sluggish off of an idle. According to Bob Wise, a longer collector would probably help our open exhaust testing, although we will have to leave that for another day. For now, our LS1 testing is complete . . . that is, until the next shipment of camshafts comes in, which should be any day now!

Last edited by a moderator:


Well-Known Member
I'd joined up on LS1Tech and have actually seen that first thread.

But most of that is pre-LS3. The LS3 heads pretty much changed the rules for LS cam selection because of the higher flow velocity on the intake side.

For instance, early LS's didn't seem to benefit much from the fast-lift XER lobes.(as shown in the info in that link)..and the ever popular GM hot cam, while it makes respectable numbers, drives like a dog in an LS3 as personally witnessed in a LS376 crate motor. (stock LS3 w/ hot cam)
Because of the increased flow, the LS3 heads make better use of the newer lobe designs. A lot of guys are even running split durations to great effect.
The LS3 heads also have a bit of an unbalanced deficiency on the exhaust side, and seems to be the biggest bottleneck for performance, but almost requires more exh. duration.

High 20-low/mid 30's on the intake side and anything above 230 on the exhaust side seems to be the norm for a mild to moderate LS3....I'm just trying to find the right balance.

The above setup with the cam in the first post has been dyno proven to 450 rwhp every time I've seen it.
Though I'm still looking for solid numbers on the 2nd one...but I think it might move the rev range up farther than I'd want.....


Staff member
that 2.56:1 rear gear ratio is limiting your cam choices a good deal, simply because you need to stay conservative enough to maintain a reasonable low speed torque curve.
The LS heads potentially out flow most GEN1 sbc heads by a wide margin but you still don,t have variable valve timing so you can,t go crazy and throw a 245-255 dur @ .050 cam lobe design to maximize the power at 6000-7000rpm without significantly reducing the low speed performance ... index.html



0911gmhtp_12_z+chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison+torque_horsepower_comparison.jpg ... 3/A-P1.htm ... 8/A-P1.htm ... index.html ... otors.html ... fault.aspx


Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was considering a rear change. From running the numbers, I'm leaning toward a 2.73 or 2.93 ratio so I can still interstate cruise at under 2K rpm. Though I don't know what the difference would be between them at the track.
Not to mention, my early experiences with big torque converters weren't good. So I'm hesitant to add that in, although I know it's almost mandatory for a fast automatic.


Staff member
btw, for anyone reading thru this thread,
if you've got a transmission without an over drive top gear ratio like a th400, th350, etc I would consider ,STRONGLY CONSIDER something in the 3.07-3.31 rear gear ratio range, if you have an over drive top gear, like a 700r4, 4l80e, 200r4 the same criteria apply but youll find , a 3.54.-3.90:1 rear gear as a good choice
remember this is for effectively gearing a mixed performance/transportation street/strip car, combo and
Id suggest gearing the car so your drive train gearing falls in a range where the transmissions FIRST GEAR x REAR GEAR ratio fall close to being in the 10:1-to-11:1 range and if your engines spinning at 6000rpm in top o.d. gear places the car speed no higher than 135 mph, the closer you can get the gearing to fall in that gearing range the more responsive most cars will be,get the rear gear ratio low enough that the rear gear ratio times first gear is over 11:1 and your first two gears become far less useful without major suspension mods and SLICKS, and truthfully, how many times do you need to exceed 135mph?

use the info in this thread



Well-Known Member
The A6 (6L80E) is a bit different in that it has comparatively tall main gears, doesn't have a 1:1 gear, and what amounts to two OD gears.
Anything over a 3.42 in an A6 and you effectively render 1st gear useless, creating a 5-spd and wasting a gear.
2.73's are the stock GM "performance" gear set that came in the Z51 track package for the C6 Corvette.
2.93's seem to be the best balance of performance and drivability, being able to cruise in the interstate under 2000 rpms, but still make a decent increase to speed at a given rpm.

The A6 seems to respond to a torque converter the most. A 3600 stall will increase ET's by up to .5-.7 in this trans. And given that the A6 can be tuned by aftermarket programmers, doesn't affect street manners as much as the classic big stall/mushy pedal/slipping trans feel.
A 2800 would be more suited to a performance daily driver, with a 3200 being about the happy medium.

The more I read about converters in the A6, the more I think that's the way to go. But converter choice affects cam choices...and this was about cams for the LS3. :) The LS3 LOVES a cam and a tune. +50-70 hp is average. +80-100 hp is the norm for cam/bolt-on setup.


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
LS1 Heads and Cam Test - LS1 Camshaft Roundup, Part 2
We jump head first into another round of stock-block LS1 engine testing
Justin Cesler Jul 1, 2011 0 Comment(s)

View Full Gallery
Welcome to the second iteration of our LS1 Camshaft Roundup! If you have been following along since Round 1, you will be happy to know that we have made even more horsepower this time around and upped the anti with a brand-new set of aftermarket cylinder heads. If you are just joining us, let’s get you up to speed. With the help of our friends at RaceKrafters in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, we have set out to test a plethora of camshaft offerings from around the globe to see how they react on an otherwise stock LS1 engine. Now, this isn’t one of those drivability tests or one of those “let’s find out that everyone wins” events—the Camshaft Roundup is all about making huge numbers, drivability be damned!

For round two, we made the call to Futral Motorsports and Patriot Performance to see if they were interested in testing. I am not sure I had even five words out of my mouth before hearing “Yes!” from both parties, and the camshafts and heads shipped to RaceKrafters just moments later. For those of you wondering, yes, these are the new Patriot Predator cylinder heads, which are built from an entirely new aftermarket casting and formulated to make some serious power. Interested in seeing how each piece of the puzzle did? Read on and make sure you let us know if you have any questions, concerns, or ideas!

2015 Honda Accord
Compare Side by Side:
Performance, Specs, Price & More.

Testing Procedure and Camshaft Guidelines
Whether you have been following our LS1 camshaft series or not, it is important to review our testing procedure and guidelines before beginning to interpret the data. As with any test, it is imperative to maintain strict guidelines to ensure valid results. Below, you will find our procedures for testing, along with our camshaft specification guidelines. While the former was very specific, the latter was left wide open, allowing manufacturers and builders to spec camshafts to their liking.

&bull Install camshaft and related valvetrain components
&bull Degree the camshaft, install to correct specs, +/- .5-degree
&bull Establish a solid idle, check base timing, set 27-degrees of total timing
&bull Oil temperature – 130-degrees F, +/- 10
&bull Water temperature – 155-degrees F, +/- 10
&bull Power pull, maintain solid AFR and timing, validate data
&bull Two additional power pulls, extract best run and record
&bull Rinse and repeat, allowing ample time for cool down

Camshaft specs
&bull If it fits in a stock LS1, it’s in the test
&bull Must be an off the shelf grind, no custom camshafts
&bull No fly cutting, no head gasket spacing, no tricks
&bull Comp Cams springs, retainers, pushrods and timing set

Everything else goes!

As previously discussed, our baseline numbers come from a stock ’98 LS1 short-block. Prior to any testing, Racekrafters replaced the stock ’98 heads with a fresh set of 241-casting LS1 units and swapped intake manifolds in favor of the newer LS6 with a matching throttle body. On the engine dyno, Racekrafters bolted up a set of 1.75-inch long-tube headers, which flow into a pair of 2.5-inch pipes and matching 2.5-inch Flowmaster mufflers to replicate real world results and, secondarily, to keep our ears from bleeding after days of testing! To help maintain consistent coolant temps, Racekrafters relies on a Meziere electric waterpump and keeps it running in between pulls to help prevent heat-soak. In that form, with the stock camshaft and cylinder heads, the old LS1 laid down some impressive numbers with 418 hp on tap at 6,000 rpm and 422 lb-ft of torque. Not shown on the baseline graph is the addition of a FAST 102 LSX-R intake manifold, which we installed during our first test session. It should be noted that all of the following tests were completed using the FAST 102 LSX-R intake manifold and not the stock LS6.

238/242-duration, .599/.612-inch lift, 112 LSA
The first camshaft in our second round of testing came to us from Allan Futral of Futral Motorsports. If you are a loyal GMHTP reader, you should already be familiar with Allan, but for those of you hearing his name for the first time, know this: Allan is a master camshaft supplier for LS engines and has spent his time building killer all-motor and forced induction builds, all based around his custom camshafts. Up first, Allan sent us a 238/242-duration camshaft with .599/.612-inches of lift on a 112 LSA, which Allan calls the FMS-F16 (PN FMS-F16-112). Billed as an “aggressive profile with a 3600-7200 rpm range, rough idle and violent mid-range,” the F16 represents everything that this test is about—raw horsepower!

In that department, the F16 didn’t disappoint, ringing in with an incredible 513.4 hp at 6,700 rpm. 513.4 hp is a huge number and represents a gain of 95.4 hp from our baseline engine testing. Compared to the stock camshaft, which made peak power (418 hp) at 6,000 rpm, the F16 was already making 494.7, a gain of 76.7 hp at the same rpm. In fact, the F16 made 417.6 hp at 5,000 rpm, further proving how violent the mid-range power actually was. Torque, as you would imagine, was up with the F16 as well, with the LS1 laying down 442.2 lb-ft at 4,800 rpm, a gain of 20.2 lb-ft of torque. Across the lower rpm range, from 3000-4500 the F16 was up 1.7 lb-ft, which was good considering that the camshaft was built to operate from 3,600 rpm on up.

238/242-duration, .599/.612-inch lift, 112 LSA + Patriot Predator 215cc heads
Impressed by the F16 camshaft, we turned our attention to the stock 241-casting GM cylinder heads and decided it was finally time to see what the LS1 could do with an aftermarket casting. Enter Patriot Performance and the company’s brand-new, and longtime coming, Patriot Predator LS1 cylinder heads. Designed in-house from a clean slate, the Predators represent everything Patriot has learned about LS1 cylinder heads over the years, combined with the company’s knack to keep performance affordable. With 2.02-inch intake valves and 1.600-inch exhaust valves, the Predators ship from Patriot ready to bolt on to any LS1 and can be used on a variety of applications. On paper, the stats for the Predator heads looked great, but as always, Bob Wise and I decided to tear them down before doing any testing, to verify that everything in the new casting was as it should be. Of course, everything was spot on, with 64cc combustion chambers, 2.02/1.60-inch valves and a great mid-range 214cc intake runner matched with an 87cc exhaust port. On RaceKrafters’ flow bench (with no pipe), we recorded 303 cfm at .600-lift, with 308 at .650, 312 at .700 and an amazing 314 at .750-inch lift. Not that we planned on seeing that much lift, but it is nice to know that the Predator heads can flow that well without backing up in the upper lift area. On the exhaust side, the flow characteristics were similar, with 210 cfm at .600-inch lift, 215 at .650, 218 at .700 and 221 cfm at .750-inch lift, again proof that Patriot did its homework on the port design.

Bolted to the engine, the gains were just as impressive. Paired with the F16 camshaft, the Patriot Predators laid down 534.2 hp at 6,600 rpm and 464.3 lb-ft of torque. To make sense of those numbers, that’s a gain of 116.2 hp and 42.3 lb-ft over the stock LS1 and a gain of 20.8 hp over the 241-casting cylinder heads alone. Average torque from 3,000-4500 rpm was up 17 lb-ft, coming in at 422.6 lb-ft compared to the stock 405.6 lb-ft. Not only did the heads make more overall power, but they hit peak horsepower 100 rpm sooner (6,600) and peak torque 200 rpm sooner (4,600). For a new casting, right out of the box, the Patriot Predators really did impress, with both great flow numbers and real world performance.

242/245-duration, .646/.637-inch lift, 111 LSA + Patriot Predator 215cc heads
With our new found horsepower and torque, we were anxious to see what adding more duration and lift would do to overall power and performance, although we were fairly certain that any potential gains would be small, given our previous testing. Allan Futral sent us a monster for testing, a camshaft so big that he calls it the Godzilla Jr (PN FMS-Godzilla Jr). With 242/245-degrees of duration at .050, .646/.637-inches of lift and a 111-degree lobe separation angle, the Godzilla Jr. is certainly large and, according to Allan, is built for “a 4,000-7,500 rpm range.” As such, average torque was down slightly from the smaller camshaft but, surprisingly, was still up over 10 lb-ft across the 3,000-4,500 rpm range, with an average of 415.8 lb-ft of torque. Peak power, as you probably guessed, was impressive at 540.9 hp, the highest in our test by a large margin. Peak torque was down when compared to the F16, but still up over 40 lb-ft when compared to the stock LS1. Naturally, with such a beast, the entire powerband was shifted upwards with this combination, with peak power coming in at 6,800 rpm and peak torque around 5,300 rpm. Needless to say, if you dare to put this combination in a car, you’re going to need a huge (4,500-plus) stall converter and a steep ring-and-pinion to keep you in the powerband. That said, it would be one heck of a ride and could easily run with some of the best heads/cam combinations in the country
GM Engine Vin Codes
Anyone going out looking for a 4.8L or 5.3L Truck based LS engine that has already been removed from the vehicleBeware, Because unless you can look into the spark plug hole with a scope or little camera to see the top of the piston or insert a wire and run it across the piston surface to feel if it's dished or a flat top It's hard to tell the difference between those two. However if you look for the 8th digit in the VIN It will tell you most everything you need to know.

1999-2006 Trucks, Vans & SUV
, VIN. X or W(2003+) (8th digit)
6.0L, VIN. U (8th digit), (LQ4) Trucks, Vans and Denali
6.0L, VIN. N (8th digit) (LQ9) Escalades & SS Silverado
4.8L, VIN. V (8th digit)
5.3L, VIN. T (8th digit, opt LM7)
5.3L, VIN. Z (8th digit, opt L59)
5.3L, VIN. B (8th digit, opt L33 05+ HO Aluminum and Iron Block with 243/799 heads)

2007+ Trucks
classic body style, 6.0L, VIN. U (8th digit, opt LQ4), Compressed Natural Gas and Gasoline
classic body style, 6.0L, VIN. N (8th digit, opt LQ9)
classic body style, 4.8L, (VIN. V, 8th digit, opt LR4)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. T (8th digit, opt LM7)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. Z (8th digit, opt L59)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. B (8th digit, opt L33)
classic body style, 4.3L, (VIN. X, 8th digit, opt LU3)

new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. 0, 8th digit, opt LMG)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. J, 8th digit, opt LY5)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. 3, 8th digit, opt LC9)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. M, 8th digit, opt LH6)
new body style, 6.0L, (VIN. Y, 8th digit, opt L76)
new body style, 4.3L, (VIN. X, 8th digit, opt LU3)
new body style, 4.8L, (VIN. C, 8th digit, opt LY2)

2003-04 GMC Truck Envoy XL
2003-04 Isuzu Ascender
2003-04 Chevy TrailBlazer EXT (all with VIN "P", 8th digit)
2005-06 (all with VIN "M", 8th digit)

for those guys doing LS engine swaps, theres a whole bunch of different shorty headers
heres just a few of many






just so others can look over the test results, on those ls intakes

both cross sectional area, and length effect flow but remember, displacement compression and cam timing also are major factors.
what most people fail to take into account is that the cam timing and exhaust scavenging being properly matched is critical.
changing the cam timing or header configuration would change some of the resulting intake flow rankings .
tests like that are helpful, as a basic parts selection guide and starting point,
but you can,t assume the results will remain consistent on different engines.
I'd also point out that component cost and easy packaging,
and parts availability all are significant choices and factors,
that were used in the components used.




Last edited:


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member

you may be amazed at the info contained in various thread sub links

big improvement in totally different ,but bolt on, ls heads
that require a non-stock intake manifold and headers
yes you'll need non-stock valve train components
( and not direct replacement for stock heads) LS heads

Last edited:


solid fixture here in the forum
Brian Tooley Cams are real popular LS Grumpy.
Installed 1 in the Race Shop in past.
Rest were Comp.

Isky Cams doing LS now.
Maybe Crane Cams too.


solid fixture here in the forum
Something to watch today.
I say the Truck 5.3 LS.
Just need 1 76-88 mm Single Turbo layout for Fastest in the the world No Prep Little guy racing.
To build a Pro Stock quality shortblock & Turbo 400 transmission with Transbrake & Good Coan Full Drag race converter will take money.

Only Old School Differentials will hold up also longterm.
Dana 60. Pontiac 9.3. Ford 9.


solid fixture here in the forum

I watched this Vid Grumpy.
Disagree drop it right in.
Sludge is a big issue on all LS engines I have tore down in the past.
Many or most abused bad.
The oil return holes in the piston oil ring grooves are all carboned up BAD.
Then Main, Rod, & Cam Bearings are worn out also.


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
yes anyone who pulls a salvage yard engine and just installs and goes out and runs it,
and does not first carefully disassemble and inspect and accurately measure,
clean and if required replace, the bearings and rings,gaskets,
and obviously carefully inspects the valve train,is asking for problems,
after a close visual inspection and careful cleaning, your far more likely to avoid problems,
other wise the engine install and use is just flipping a coin,
and taking a chance on durability,

that could rather easily be avoided or at least significantly reduced.
know what your dealing with, and don,t guess,
yes, it may cost you time and a few hundred dollars,
but your far less likely to be in need of a second engine replacement in a few days or weeks.


solid fixture here in the forum
Most guys do not realize it but the biggest single improvement with Street Outlaws exhaust coming out the Front Fenders is True Hp and Torque delivered.
Saving over 100 lbs dead weight with full exhaust.
Saving up $10,000 on cars like a Corvette also..
Bypass all huge expenses no Corvette Tax Grumpy.


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
442 cid LS7 Engine


Moruzzi Race Motors in Banning, CA to rebuild his LS7 engine for off-road racing.


Robert Moruzzi, owner of Moruzzi’s Race Motors, first found his passion for engine building due to his family’s racing background. Both his mom’s and dad’s side of the family enjoy racing and working on cars and engines.

“We’re all gear heads,” Moruzzi says. “My mom’s dad did circle track racing and dirt track racing. My dad and grandpa are both drag racers. As soon as I could hold a wrench I was working on cars.”

Right out of high school, Moruzzi got a job working for Chevy. His career there spanned 20 years – first starting as a porter, then doing oil changes and finally as a heavy-duty line technician building motors. Despite working on cars and engines all day, Moruzzi still had the energy to build engines on the side.


“My friends would want me to help them build their motors,” he says. “Before long, it got kind of serious and I started doing one a month and then it went to two a month. Pretty soon I had five or six engines at all times. After 20 years at Chevy, I went to my boss and said, ‘I want to do this full time.’ My boss said, ‘I’m all for it. I stand behind you. If it doesn’t work out, you can always come back.’”

Moruzzi took his engine building full-time in 2014 with Moruzzi Race Motors in Banning, CA. Today, he has a 1,200 square-foot shop that’s been getting busier and busier. Moruzzi relies on a local machine shop for his block work, but everything else is done in-house. He operates the shop along with his dad.


“My dad actually works for me doing head work,” he says. “It’s just me and my dad right now. We are busy enough to get more help, but it’s nice having the work pile up a little bit so we have a cushion. We do what it takes to get it done.”

One of those recent builds was Jason Whipple’s LS7 engine. After finding out another shop wanted to charge him $38,000 for the rebuild, Jason came to Moruzzi’s to discuss his options.

“The customer called me and said his motor blew up,” Moruzzi says. “Jason is a friend of a friend. We took it all apart, laid all the parts out, went through everything and took the block to the machine shop. The block was salvageable. They found one little lip on the main they had to fix. We explained to the customer his different options and what we could do with the engine and he went with us.”


Jason’s LS7 engine features an RHS tall deck block and is 442 cid. The main had to be de-burred by the machine shop because one of the rod bearings caught and put a groove in the block.

“Our machine shop line bored it and resized the caps,” he says. “We also bored and honed it with a torque plate. We put new roller cam bearings in it. We notched the block for the bigger crankshaft and surfaced the block.”

The heads Moruzzi chose for the build were off-the-shelf Brodix heads that, once in the shop, got a valve job, were ported and polished, and given triple valve springs.


The LS7 engine also got a Callies 4.125˝ crankshaft, 6.250˝ Callies rods, custom 4.130˝ forged RaceTec pistons, Total Seal rings, and a Cam Motion solid roller camshaft. To really make the build stand out, Moruzzi went with an RCD gear drive.

In addition, Moruzzi used ARP studs throughout, Clevite bearings and for the valvetrain he used stainless Manley valves, Crower shaft-driven rocker arms and Crower solid roller lifters. The solid roller camshaft Moruzzi chose is from Cam Motion and is .689˝ lift intake and .701˝ exhaust lift. The duration is 242/258 on a 112-degree lobe.


The engine is a dry sump, so it also has a Dailey Engineering dry sump system on it. This LS7 engine is 11.5:1 compression. At the crank, Moruzzi says the engine pumped out 700 horsepower and 680 ft.-lbs. of torque. Wheel horsepower was 475 and 468 ft.-lbs. of torque at the wheels.

“The engine is going in a Class 1 off-road race car that has a sequential transmission and 40-inch tires,” Moruzzi says. “The customer has already raced it and says it’s a killer set up.”

Last edited:


solid fixture here in the forum
4032 Race Tech pistons used Grumpy.
Being pushed past known limits.

Cam is interesting. Very aggresive.
Expensive build.


solid fixture here in the forum
Actually in the boost era Grumpy.

44 psi used to be high.
Then 65 psi.

Import guys at 100 -110 psi now .

Only 2 engines can push it.
Pontiac V8.
Big Chevy.