my first real fast car, was a 1965 LEMAN/GTO, clone that I purchased dirt cheap in 1970 with a blown engine, but a good 4 speed for $900 ,and a decent rear (I THOUGHT) I had a plan and friends, it soon had a 1969 corvette 427 , with a tri power intake installed on the engine from a wrecked vette, that engine didn,t last long, (bad bearings) I replaced it with what at the time was a custom deal, a 4.25" stroker crank and 6.385 rods and .60 over 13.7:1 cpr pistons,and built a 496 BBC combo, with a ZL1 cam with solid lifters and chevelle headers added, remember this is a 1970 car and SUNOCO 260 gas cost about 40-50 cents a gallon, back in 1972-78 when I had this car, the original rear differential went out, shortly after installing the bigger engine, and I got a dana 60 from a wrecked hemi challenger too which I had 4.88:1 rear gears added,by a experienced mechanic friend and had the correct suspension brackets and drive shaft fabricated, (again ,by a experienced mechanic friend, AS I didn,t know how to weld yet) I built and paid for (with the help of far more knowledgeable friends at that time, who helped me plan, and assemble the engine and drive train) one of the first 496 bbc strokers,in my area. in fact most of the guys had never even seen a 4.25" stroke bbc crank or connecting rods that were not the reworked stock Chevy rods at that time.
you could buy a new luxury car , or a new corvette back then, for the money I eventually spent on that lemans drive train, but I was young and having a fast car was damn important at the time!, even if it cost you damn near every dime I made back then, when I was dating and still in engineering school!!
the car destroyed street tires and ran high 11s which was screaming fast for the time (especially for a guy who barely knew how to tune it at the time.)
and keep in mind learning to drive a car like that takes some time and your forced into learning about things most younger guys fail to think of until its forced on them , like bigger brakes, and suspension mods, more durable u-joints, larger cooling systems, baffled oil pans, etc. not to mention a full roll cage can be a P.I.T.A. at times.
I eventually installed that 496 BBC engine in the 1968 corvette, I bought.....well, .after a few other engines ,and yes in the corvette it was faster, but the corvette required a full roll cage, tubed rear 4 link rear suspension, and was a source of constant problems and a bottomless money pit.
yeah! the problem is not so much in building a killer car with a great deal of power, thats really fun to drive, its the cost of maintaining it in top condition, the fact that theres darn few places you can drive the car like you stole it other than a local track,the fact you can spend 3-6 hours at the track and only get to drive the car for less than 6 minutes, and their tendency to require expensive and frequently replaced components like tires, brakes, and the fact most get rather poor mileage and the fact that 9-10 second street cars generally are not ideal family transportation either.
yes the correctly built car can be a lot of fun to drive but theres always compromises to be made, thats why I personally like cars that run in the 11-12 second range, with a big block that makes killer power but is not under much stress and does not need to spin over 6500rpm and are street drivable, you get to actually drive and use them.
this car looks vaguely similar, but lacks some of the rear fender opening and dana 60 rear differential mods
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5123
I had far more fun with a `1965 tempest/GTO clone with a BBC engine in it, even thou it was not nearly as fast! as some of my later cars.
If your worried about guys noticing an engine swap, don,t! the real hot rodders will instantly spot the change but easily 7/8th of the guys looking are totally clueless and the correct color engine paint and engine decals are all thats required
I would not be all that worried about the heads , or intake on an engine swap looking absolutely stock, I had a 496 BBC installed in a pontiac lemans that had a corvette tri-power intake on it and I painted it pontiac robin egg blue and put 421 stickers on the air cleaner and valve covers and fender badges ,although the engines look nothing alike I had dozens of guys mistake it for a 421 pontiac
I was asked what I thought might be a really nice muscle car project?
Ive always felt a 1965 GTO with a dana 60 rear differential, 20" rims four wheel disc brakes,open up the wheel wells just a bit for clearance and lower the car just slightly,add a 3.54:1 rear gear, the over drive trans, full manual 4l80e with a 3200stall converter and a full roller valve train,11:1 compression ratio, aluminum 572 big block with multi port fuel injection , a huge aluminum radiator and oil and transmission cooler,would be great, room for 4-5 people, a big trunk, lots of engine compartment space to work, and it looks classic, and 8 stack thru the hoods impressive, aluminum hood, trunk lid front fenders bumper and a custom chrome molly tube frame, get the weight down around 3100lbs , etc. yes I could have gone turbo and had a faster combo, but it would not be what I really want and a car that ran mid 10 second 1/4 mile times is fine
for the guys that appreciate that year Pontiac, here is some similar year GTO pictures
but if the budget were not all that tight!
Id go the old school route in a heart beat
with EFI stack injection and a vertex max, without a seconds hesitation
the only thing preventing me from owning its is a severely depleted checking account, and current finances
I owned something vaguely similar but not as exotic or costly, at one time and have always deeply regretted selling it!
related thread
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=9768&p=36769#p36769
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9012&p=35803&hilit=suspension+chevelle#p35803
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4211&p=11077&hilit=1965+lemans#p11077
Ive always preferred the sleeper cars, those that don,t look all that fast, but can totally leave you stuttering and looking at fast receding tail lights, when I was growing up in high school and early college, in about 1968-1970- one of the COOLEST cars I remember was a black two door 1964 Pontiac tempest that had a stroker 392 dual quad hemi installed in it, the car could run mid 11 seconds, on street tires back when the pro-stock guys were only running low tens and it looked almost stock in appearance other than significantly wider rear tires and if you knew what you were looking at a dana 60 rear, that car had a profound effect on me, thats one reason why I built my 1965 Pontiac I talked about above, I liked the 1965 body a bit better and could not find a HEMI, but I could find a big block chevy
picture this car with black paint and chrome wheels
you could buy a new luxury car , or a new corvette back then, for the money I eventually spent on that lemans drive train, but I was young and having a fast car was damn important at the time!, even if it cost you damn near every dime I made back then, when I was dating and still in engineering school!!
the car destroyed street tires and ran high 11s which was screaming fast for the time (especially for a guy who barely knew how to tune it at the time.)
and keep in mind learning to drive a car like that takes some time and your forced into learning about things most younger guys fail to think of until its forced on them , like bigger brakes, and suspension mods, more durable u-joints, larger cooling systems, baffled oil pans, etc. not to mention a full roll cage can be a P.I.T.A. at times.
I eventually installed that 496 BBC engine in the 1968 corvette, I bought.....well, .after a few other engines ,and yes in the corvette it was faster, but the corvette required a full roll cage, tubed rear 4 link rear suspension, and was a source of constant problems and a bottomless money pit.
yeah! the problem is not so much in building a killer car with a great deal of power, thats really fun to drive, its the cost of maintaining it in top condition, the fact that theres darn few places you can drive the car like you stole it other than a local track,the fact you can spend 3-6 hours at the track and only get to drive the car for less than 6 minutes, and their tendency to require expensive and frequently replaced components like tires, brakes, and the fact most get rather poor mileage and the fact that 9-10 second street cars generally are not ideal family transportation either.
yes the correctly built car can be a lot of fun to drive but theres always compromises to be made, thats why I personally like cars that run in the 11-12 second range, with a big block that makes killer power but is not under much stress and does not need to spin over 6500rpm and are street drivable, you get to actually drive and use them.
this car looks vaguely similar, but lacks some of the rear fender opening and dana 60 rear differential mods
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5123
I had far more fun with a `1965 tempest/GTO clone with a BBC engine in it, even thou it was not nearly as fast! as some of my later cars.
If your worried about guys noticing an engine swap, don,t! the real hot rodders will instantly spot the change but easily 7/8th of the guys looking are totally clueless and the correct color engine paint and engine decals are all thats required
I would not be all that worried about the heads , or intake on an engine swap looking absolutely stock, I had a 496 BBC installed in a pontiac lemans that had a corvette tri-power intake on it and I painted it pontiac robin egg blue and put 421 stickers on the air cleaner and valve covers and fender badges ,although the engines look nothing alike I had dozens of guys mistake it for a 421 pontiac
I was asked what I thought might be a really nice muscle car project?
Ive always felt a 1965 GTO with a dana 60 rear differential, 20" rims four wheel disc brakes,open up the wheel wells just a bit for clearance and lower the car just slightly,add a 3.54:1 rear gear, the over drive trans, full manual 4l80e with a 3200stall converter and a full roller valve train,11:1 compression ratio, aluminum 572 big block with multi port fuel injection , a huge aluminum radiator and oil and transmission cooler,would be great, room for 4-5 people, a big trunk, lots of engine compartment space to work, and it looks classic, and 8 stack thru the hoods impressive, aluminum hood, trunk lid front fenders bumper and a custom chrome molly tube frame, get the weight down around 3100lbs , etc. yes I could have gone turbo and had a faster combo, but it would not be what I really want and a car that ran mid 10 second 1/4 mile times is fine
for the guys that appreciate that year Pontiac, here is some similar year GTO pictures
but if the budget were not all that tight!
Id go the old school route in a heart beat
with EFI stack injection and a vertex max, without a seconds hesitation
the only thing preventing me from owning its is a severely depleted checking account, and current finances
I owned something vaguely similar but not as exotic or costly, at one time and have always deeply regretted selling it!
related thread
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=9768&p=36769#p36769
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9012&p=35803&hilit=suspension+chevelle#p35803
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4211&p=11077&hilit=1965+lemans#p11077
Ive always preferred the sleeper cars, those that don,t look all that fast, but can totally leave you stuttering and looking at fast receding tail lights, when I was growing up in high school and early college, in about 1968-1970- one of the COOLEST cars I remember was a black two door 1964 Pontiac tempest that had a stroker 392 dual quad hemi installed in it, the car could run mid 11 seconds, on street tires back when the pro-stock guys were only running low tens and it looked almost stock in appearance other than significantly wider rear tires and if you knew what you were looking at a dana 60 rear, that car had a profound effect on me, thats one reason why I built my 1965 Pontiac I talked about above, I liked the 1965 body a bit better and could not find a HEMI, but I could find a big block chevy
picture this car with black paint and chrome wheels
Last edited by a moderator:
