Hello grumpy,
I have a question about cams. I bought an engine from a guy who had it built to run nitrous.
The basics on the motor are:.030 over GM 400 block, 2 bolt converted to 4 bolt splayed mains,
Scat 4130 3.875 crank, 6 inch Eagle H-beam rods,
JE SRP forged 10.5-1 pistons,64cc World Sportsman 2's worked over buy a reputable head builder, triple valve springs, Manley valves, Victor Jr. intake 800 Holley that was built at the Carb Shop
in CA.
The cam is a Chet Herbert solid roller with .610 and .630 lift and 258/270 dur. @.50. When I asked Herbert cams for info on the cam, like valve lash settings, they did not seem too concerned that I was not intending to run nitrous.
My question to you is, what, if any great benefit would there be to swap this cam for one not so heavily biased to the exhaust?
I drive this car on the street but not much more than 30-40 mile per trip.
Assuming your car has that 10.5:1 cpr swapping to a cam with a little less duration and about a 108-110 LCA should produce a good deal more low and mid rpm TORQUE, with very little if any off nitrous loss in upper rpm power., and Id bet the power on the nitrous won,t change a great deal, but only increase the mid rpm torque with the change.
ROLLER CAMS don,t need huge duration figures to produce excellent flow rates
WATCH THIS
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/nitr ... -3389.html
READ THRU THIS CAREFULLY
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Artic ... 2026144213
EXAMPLE
http://store.chetherbert.com/herbertcb6 ... 2-1-1.aspx
Ill assume your running decent headers so the good deal of extra durration on the current roller cams probably not necessary , especially when your not running the nitrous, ID have sellected something closer to the roller cam I just posted for that combo. ESPECIALLY if its going to make 30-40 mile trips on the street.
HERES WHAT ISKY SAYS ON THAT SUBJECT
"Tech Tip - 2003
Longer Exhaust Duration: Is this really necessary?
Most stock camshafts from American production V8, V6 and 4 cylinder engines manufactured today are ground with the longer exhaust lobe duration. Or, another way of looking at this is that they are ground with shorter intake durations! The former embraces the viewpoint that either the Exhaust Ports or Exhaust Pipe system is somewhat restrictive, and is in need of an assist. The latter suggests that the intake system is rather efficient and cam timing can be trimmed back a bit with out much sacrifice in power, in order to maximize throttle response and cruising efficiency.
Take your pick here. There is no absolutely correct viewpoint - because both are probably true! In a stock engine running at conservative RPM levels, for the sake of overall efficiency, fuel economy and a quiet smooth running engine, this staggering of intake and exhaust duration is quite common and appropriate.
However, High Performance is another thing entirely. Change one factor, let's say in this case, the exhaust system (installing headers and larger pipes) and you have just negated in most cases, the need for that longer exhaust lobe. Now couple this change with a different intake system and camshaft and you have really scrambled the equation. But, wait just a moment. Why is it that so many people (racers & cam grinders alike) insist on running a cam with longer exhaust duration regardless of what equipment is employed? The answer is "habit". Most of them have been somewhat successful in doing it their way and will probably never change unless virtually forced by circumstances to do so.
Before we go any further however let's review what it actually is we are trying to do with an engine when we attempt to make more power. Our best result comes when we are cognizant of the fact that an engine is basically an air pump. We pump it in and out (although in a different form) and we have problems when one side or the other is restricted. Balance or the equilibrium or flow should be our objective, unless of course we are not trying to make more horsepower!
Example #1 (Oval track racing) Here, I have often observed that the most experienced drivers are those who are most likely to run a single pattern (equal on intake and exhaust duration) cam. Why? Because such cams always, I repeat always make more torque! These veterans have a more educated foot and greater experience in feathering the throttle in the corners. They can therefore, utilize the benefit of added torque, in the lower to mid RPM range, to their advantage.
Their counterparts, the younger drivers on the circuit, generally are not as experienced and may at times actually get "crossed up" in the corners especially with a lighter car or when they are learning the ropes. In their case, a longer exhaust duration is often the more appropriate choice. It will often help them to drive better, more "flat footed" if you will, without consequence. But please for the sake of accuracy, let us be truthful. The benefit comes from an actual bleeding off of low to mid range torque, which is always what happens when Exh. Duration is lengthened, not from any improvement. The improvement, (if any) would come because of an improvement in scavenging at the extreme upper end of the power curve and would usually be marginal at best. Yet the so-called "extra power" potential of a longer Exh. Duration cam is most often why they are touted - power most people are backing away from at the end of the strait away!
Example #2 (Drag Racing) At the drag strip it's a little different and I feel more honest. Here, racers have long enjoyed longer exhaust and longer durations across the board (If I may add specifically for the purpose of "killing" low-end torque) to keep the tires from too easily breaking lose. This has been successful and sometimes actually results in a slight increase in top end power - something you can actually use in drag racing since it is a full throttle endeavor through the lights. Keep in mind here though, it's quite possible that a longer duration cam overall would have done just as well or better. In other words if you needed that longer exhaust for top end, perhaps the intake could have benefited from such a lengthening as well.
One of my favorite expressions is how "The Drag Racing mentality has infiltrated the ranks of Oval Track". Many have crossed over and made the switch in the past 10-15 years and some have brought their preconceived notions about how to cam an engine with them. A few may actually read these concepts and if they do so will at least come away with a better understanding of what they are doing. On the other hand they also could find that this information might actually help their cars to run just a bit faster! "
well worth reading thru
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb90252.htm
I have a question about cams. I bought an engine from a guy who had it built to run nitrous.
The basics on the motor are:.030 over GM 400 block, 2 bolt converted to 4 bolt splayed mains,
Scat 4130 3.875 crank, 6 inch Eagle H-beam rods,
JE SRP forged 10.5-1 pistons,64cc World Sportsman 2's worked over buy a reputable head builder, triple valve springs, Manley valves, Victor Jr. intake 800 Holley that was built at the Carb Shop
in CA.
The cam is a Chet Herbert solid roller with .610 and .630 lift and 258/270 dur. @.50. When I asked Herbert cams for info on the cam, like valve lash settings, they did not seem too concerned that I was not intending to run nitrous.
My question to you is, what, if any great benefit would there be to swap this cam for one not so heavily biased to the exhaust?
I drive this car on the street but not much more than 30-40 mile per trip.
Assuming your car has that 10.5:1 cpr swapping to a cam with a little less duration and about a 108-110 LCA should produce a good deal more low and mid rpm TORQUE, with very little if any off nitrous loss in upper rpm power., and Id bet the power on the nitrous won,t change a great deal, but only increase the mid rpm torque with the change.
ROLLER CAMS don,t need huge duration figures to produce excellent flow rates
WATCH THIS
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/nitr ... -3389.html
READ THRU THIS CAREFULLY
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Artic ... 2026144213
EXAMPLE
http://store.chetherbert.com/herbertcb6 ... 2-1-1.aspx
Ill assume your running decent headers so the good deal of extra durration on the current roller cams probably not necessary , especially when your not running the nitrous, ID have sellected something closer to the roller cam I just posted for that combo. ESPECIALLY if its going to make 30-40 mile trips on the street.
HERES WHAT ISKY SAYS ON THAT SUBJECT
"Tech Tip - 2003
Longer Exhaust Duration: Is this really necessary?
Most stock camshafts from American production V8, V6 and 4 cylinder engines manufactured today are ground with the longer exhaust lobe duration. Or, another way of looking at this is that they are ground with shorter intake durations! The former embraces the viewpoint that either the Exhaust Ports or Exhaust Pipe system is somewhat restrictive, and is in need of an assist. The latter suggests that the intake system is rather efficient and cam timing can be trimmed back a bit with out much sacrifice in power, in order to maximize throttle response and cruising efficiency.
Take your pick here. There is no absolutely correct viewpoint - because both are probably true! In a stock engine running at conservative RPM levels, for the sake of overall efficiency, fuel economy and a quiet smooth running engine, this staggering of intake and exhaust duration is quite common and appropriate.
However, High Performance is another thing entirely. Change one factor, let's say in this case, the exhaust system (installing headers and larger pipes) and you have just negated in most cases, the need for that longer exhaust lobe. Now couple this change with a different intake system and camshaft and you have really scrambled the equation. But, wait just a moment. Why is it that so many people (racers & cam grinders alike) insist on running a cam with longer exhaust duration regardless of what equipment is employed? The answer is "habit". Most of them have been somewhat successful in doing it their way and will probably never change unless virtually forced by circumstances to do so.
Before we go any further however let's review what it actually is we are trying to do with an engine when we attempt to make more power. Our best result comes when we are cognizant of the fact that an engine is basically an air pump. We pump it in and out (although in a different form) and we have problems when one side or the other is restricted. Balance or the equilibrium or flow should be our objective, unless of course we are not trying to make more horsepower!
Example #1 (Oval track racing) Here, I have often observed that the most experienced drivers are those who are most likely to run a single pattern (equal on intake and exhaust duration) cam. Why? Because such cams always, I repeat always make more torque! These veterans have a more educated foot and greater experience in feathering the throttle in the corners. They can therefore, utilize the benefit of added torque, in the lower to mid RPM range, to their advantage.
Their counterparts, the younger drivers on the circuit, generally are not as experienced and may at times actually get "crossed up" in the corners especially with a lighter car or when they are learning the ropes. In their case, a longer exhaust duration is often the more appropriate choice. It will often help them to drive better, more "flat footed" if you will, without consequence. But please for the sake of accuracy, let us be truthful. The benefit comes from an actual bleeding off of low to mid range torque, which is always what happens when Exh. Duration is lengthened, not from any improvement. The improvement, (if any) would come because of an improvement in scavenging at the extreme upper end of the power curve and would usually be marginal at best. Yet the so-called "extra power" potential of a longer Exh. Duration cam is most often why they are touted - power most people are backing away from at the end of the strait away!
Example #2 (Drag Racing) At the drag strip it's a little different and I feel more honest. Here, racers have long enjoyed longer exhaust and longer durations across the board (If I may add specifically for the purpose of "killing" low-end torque) to keep the tires from too easily breaking lose. This has been successful and sometimes actually results in a slight increase in top end power - something you can actually use in drag racing since it is a full throttle endeavor through the lights. Keep in mind here though, it's quite possible that a longer duration cam overall would have done just as well or better. In other words if you needed that longer exhaust for top end, perhaps the intake could have benefited from such a lengthening as well.
One of my favorite expressions is how "The Drag Racing mentality has infiltrated the ranks of Oval Track". Many have crossed over and made the switch in the past 10-15 years and some have brought their preconceived notions about how to cam an engine with them. A few may actually read these concepts and if they do so will at least come away with a better understanding of what they are doing. On the other hand they also could find that this information might actually help their cars to run just a bit faster! "
well worth reading thru
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb90252.htm