Plastic gauge?

[racprops]

Question: Can plastic gauge read correctly if used on a crank already oiled or with assembly lube??

I am wanting to confirm the work done by my machine shop but I do not want to tear it down and dry it off, just see if they did the clearances correctly.

I figure to check one or two main caps and the same of a couple of rod if they check good will trust the rest to be good.

Sadly I have come to feel less happy with their work.

Rich

 

[Grumpy]

yes theres almost ZERO difference in the result, or measurement,
(yes I personally tested this several times)
simply because the lubricant squeeze's out very easily , thus having nearly no effect,
BTW I generally spray the crank journal and bearing surfaces with WD40,
to prevent the plasti -gauge from sticking or stretching when removed

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Precision measuring tools

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bearings and oil flow​

Bearings and oil flow https://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/building-a-custom-wet-sump-oil-pan.65/ http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us90126.htm http://www.insightservices.net/testoil/ ... cation.htm http://www.thirskauto.net/BearingPics.html...
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yeah a 2lb dead blow hammer to gently whack or two on both sides and the bottom surface, on the blocks main caps after you've torqued them into place to verify they are firmly seated and a quick recheck on the torque settings is generally a good idea,
this is also a good idea when checking clearance's with plasti -gauge on main bearings)

plastigauge green - Google Search

and cutting a shallow , .006 thousands deep)oil groove in a thrust bearing vertical surface to add additional oil flow to the crank/bearing surface to help lube that surface as you depress the clutch with a jewelers file certainly aids increased durability

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lining up oil feed holes in bearings shells​

I just got an e-mail asking what to do if you find that the blocks oil feed passage holes don,t line up exactly right with the holes in the oil feed holes in bearings shells? http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/viscosity-centistoke.15612/ paint, marker etc. tends to...
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10pcs Plastigage Green Main Rod Bearing Clearance Gauge Indicator Tool .001-.003 | eBay

Item for sale: 10pcs Plastigage Green Main Rod Bearing Clearance Gauge Indicator Tool. 001-.003. 10 pieces of green. Other uses include marine drive shaft bearings, turbine housing bearings, pump and pressure system bearings, shaft end-float, flatness and clearance in pipe-flanges and cylinder...

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Plastigauge Plastigage Green .001"-.003" Rod Main Bearing Clearance strips 6 | eBay

Make sure your bearing clearances are in spec.

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bearing clearances

Understanding Today’s Bearing Clearance Recipe related info. http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/page-2#post-75256 http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearings-and-oil-flow.150/#post-68205...

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http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...guess-on-clearances-and-journal-surface.9955/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rotating-assembly-bearings.9527/

 

[racprops]

As always many thanks.

 

[Grumpy]

AS ALWAYS I'M GLAD TO HELP OUT!
I very well remember how hard it was when I was younger to get correct an strait answers to questions,
most machine shops I dealt with, were convinced that, from their point of view...
the LESS THE CUSTOMER KNEW...or could verify
THE BETTER OFF THEY WERE!
(and in most cases the low quality machine work,I saw done,
and not having the customers verify precise measurements', bore that idea out)

I've always found use of plasti-guage for checking bearing clearances to be more consistently accurate than measuring and doing the math,

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Item for sale: 10pcs Plastigage Green Main Rod Bearing Clearance Gauge Indicator Tool. 001-.003. 10 pieces of green. Other uses include marine drive shaft bearings, turbine housing bearings, pump and pressure system bearings, shaft end-float, flatness and clearance in pipe-flanges and cylinder...

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[racprops]

So I believe I am looking for a reading of .00268 correct?? Hard to read that small a reading I am guessing some where between .002 and .003

 

[Grumpy]

yeah, anything .in the main bearing clearance range from .0025-.0028 is going to work reasonably well

bearing clearances

Rod bearings 0.002 - 0.025" , side clearance 0.010 - 0.020" Main bearings 0.002 - 0.003" for most engines ( 0.020-0.025 bearing clearance on small blocks, .025-.027 bearing clearance is about ideal, on...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

[racprops]

The Good news is: The plastic gauge show just a hair over .002

And the screw in studs on the heads I just picked up are NOT stock size but a 1/4 of an inch taller and thus they will be just right for my steel roller rockers with roller tips.

Plus the coater only charged me $200.00 instead of $250.00 so I saved about $100.00 in expected costs today, as I will not be buying studs either, so a good day.

Rich

 

[Grumpy]

it always feels good when things go a bit better and less expensively, it always feels good.....
but keep in mind the quality of the work done, maters more over time than the few dollars saved

,that's one reason I was forced to learn how to do a great many things myself and had to acquire
a number of skills and a good many expensive tools,
as I got very tired of paying good money for sloppy half assed machine work,
and once you know exactly how to measure and inspect machine work precision,
and you've dealt with several machine shops and machinists
and a you will get into your project details, when we/you get the time,
and become more accustomed too dealing with machine shops that think...
you might not know the difference in the quality of work being done,
we damn sure won't put the time and effort into precise machine work that might not be required,
and we will generally pay far more time and attention to components that requires in the vast majority of cases.

a dial caliper. a pad of paper, a magic marker, some fabrication skills ,
and owning a drill press and a decent welder or ideally a milling machine
can allow you to do amazing things in the correct hands,
especially when getting what you need is not available off the shelf
what you save initially, in lower price ,on any engine components
will more than likely be made up in the cost of required additional machining and time & effort added in required balancing/clearance work
you tend to get what you pay for, quality machine work and precision measurement and careful inspection processes take time and that costs money.
there is ALWAYS a compromise, made between quality and price
I learned that long ago,
“Quality is like buying oats: like:. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ...
that comes a little cheaper.”

 

[racprops]

A last (I hope) question: I HAD a gapless second ring set, I thought it was a very good idea, to nearly stop all blowby.

The shop threw them away and put in a standard ring set.

So question is was those rings a good idea or a so so one or a waste of money and time??

Rich

 

[Grumpy]

in theory the gapless ring sets are superior,
but Ive personally had much more consistent and better results ,
with the standard moly rings when gapped correctly.
in fact on my 1985 corvette I used gapless rings on one rebuild and within about 7K miles I tore it down,
replacing the new gapless rings and found I got more consistent leak down test results,
as the gapless rings just never seated correctly in my opinion,
and yes I followed the TOTAL SEAL manufacturers installation instructions to the letter!

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[FishFry]

I used Plastigauge before, but it always seems a little fishy to me.
Then I learned this from on old race mechanic:

I like to use a narrow strip of .0015" brass shim stock between the crankshaft and the rod or main cap instead of plastigauge, and adjust the shim pack until the crank can be turned a little with a moderate amount of effort.