Removing Gaskets The Wrong Way

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
I was over helping bob today, for awhile and he was replacing the head gasket on a buddies car.
well once the old head, and head gasket was removed there was a bunch of old gasket sealer left on the block and head surface, and BOB reached for a rotary brush on a 1/2" chuck drill which I'm certain has been done by thousands of guys, in the past, but its a darn good way to screw up the gasket sealing surface.
(yes I know its been done thousands of times but its also resulted in dozens of guys with unexplained head gasket failures)
the problem is that its absolutely impossible to remove the old stuck on gasket material with a drill and rotary wire brush without doing at least some minor damage to the sealing surface
and its all too easy to do damage that can cause head gaskets to leak
rotarywire1.jpg

the correct route is to spray the surface down with a gasket solvent spray, let it sit 15 minutes, re-spray , it may take two or even three coats of solvent but the residue will tend to wipe off with minimal force once soft and partly dissolved and then use a 6 inch wide (minimum ) , under gaskets but over the bores without tipping a sharp edge, of the thin flexible blade edge into a bore,while using minimal pressure , THIS IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL ON ALUMINUM HEAD GASKET SURFACES,
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held almost parallel to the surface, the flex blade used with minimal pressure is used to loosen the old gasket residue, by slicing the loose gooey, mostly solvent soaked and mostly dissolved residue off the machined surface then wipe off the surface with a rag soaked in acetone. to remove any remaining residue, that way the mating surface is less likely to get gouged
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Item number :
CRC-03017

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Dynatex 49673 Gasket Remover

be careful don,t get it on your skin, use plastic gloves

https://www.gtmidwest.com/2328353/Product/CRC®-03017?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuLy_n8uv2QIVnLjACh2hgQ_vEAQYAyABEgLNDvD_BwE
acetone.jpg

using a decent shop vacuum while you remove gaskets tends to greatly reduce the chance or odd debris getting into places you don,t want or need that crap to get into
THIS IS THE ONE I PURCHASED AND I RECOMMEND IT, remember to change filter elements frequently and a couple quarts of water and a couple drops of dawn dish washing liquid in the water traps a great deal of dust in the lower body before it gets to the filter
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-16-Ga ... 5yc1vZbv79
6.5hpvac.jpg

if you want to be sure you get all the metallic trash removed,removing gaskets and using a thread tap to clean bolt holes followed by a solvent spray wash and a long tip high pressure air nozzle blowing the passages dry and clear, of solvent and clear of debris, along with the ling spray nozzle ,high pressure air, solvent and the vacuum is a hard combo to beat
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VERIFY THE BLOCK DECKS NOT WARPED
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A CARPENTERS SQUARE , A BRIGHT LIGHT AND FEELER GAUGES CAN BE USED TO CHECK IF THE BLOCK DECK OR CYLINDER HEAD MATING SURFACE IS SQUARE AND NOT WARPED
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IF YOUR SIMPLY TRYING TO GET A STOCK ENGINE BACK IN SERVICE AS CHEAPLY AS YOU CAN?
the heads and block surfaces must be very carefully examined for damage or warping issues and if found those issues must be corrected, before any new head gaskets installed, over time steam can and will cut grooves in even cast iron blocks and rather easily in softer aluminum. no head gasket will seal a badly machined or warped head or block
btw if youve managed to blow a head gasket on a 1986-91 TPI corvette with aluminum heads
the heads and block surfaces must be very carefully examined for damage or warping issues and if found those issues must be corrected, before any new head gaskets installed, over time steam can and will cut grooves in even cast iron blocks and rather easily in softer aluminum.
fel-hs7733pt9_xl.jpg

fel-hs7733pt9_xl.jpg

the stock 1986-91 tpi head gasket FELPRO HS7733pt9
heres a video on checking heads for warpage

youll also need a rust preventative oil

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the new wd40 rust preventative spray works far better than the older version
http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667 READ THRU THIS LINK[/img]

HERES A VIDEO THAT SHOULD BE TITLED
"HOW TO SCREW UP A BLOCKS GASKET SURFACE"

HONESTLY HE IS REALLY DOING THE JOB BADLY, BUT IF YOUR NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE< HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?
before you spend a good deal of money porting and un-shrouding any iron cylinder heads, keep in mind aluminum heads are easily repaired in a skilled and experienced automotive machine shop thats equipped to do those repairs but damaged iron cylinder heads are either much harder to repair or good door stops

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/iron-vs-aluminum-heads.389/#post-7266
Larry Carley said:
Removing Gaskets The Wrong Way
Engine dis-assembly is a dirty, greasy, time-consuming job, so any shortcut that makes the work go faster is a good idea, right? Maybe not if the short cut ends up damaging parts or creating more work for you in the long run.
The practice we’re talking about here is using an abrasive pad in a drill to grind off gasket residue that may be stuck to the heads or block. The abrasive will certainly whiz the gasket debris right off, but it can also whiz off metal leaving a shallow depression, a dig or a groove that may create a sealing problem when the engine is put back together.

Another reason not to use an abrasive disk to grind off or clean a surface is that it generates a lot of dust. Some gasket fibers may be hazardous to breathe. A dust mask can protect your lungs, but the residue can end up in other places where it may cause problems later (like in the cylinders, intake ports, oil or coolant passages).

The best way to remove gaskets is with a sharp scraper and/or a can of aerosol chemical gasket remover. Spraying the gaskets with a chemical remover eliminates hard scraping and the risk of scratching or gouging the surface, especially on soft aluminum heads and blocks. The chemical does most of the work by softening the gaskets. The residue can then be easily scraped off the surface.

One mistake to avoid here is using the wrong tool to scrape off the gaskets. An old screw driver is not a gasket remover. Nor is a putty knife. A gasket scraper is the right tool to use because it has a sharp, beveled edge that gets under and lifts the old gasket from the surface. Just make sure the scraper is sharp (it should be sharp enough to cut paper).

The trick to using a gasket scraper correctly is to scrape at an angle that is almost parallel to the surface. By keeping the angle small, the tip of the scraper will slip under the gasket and shear it away from the surface without digging in. If you try to use it like a chisel, you’ll probably end up gouging the surface and damaging the surface. Also, hold the scraper so you push it forward (away from you) as you scrape. This way, if the tool slips it won’t gouge you.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4081&p=10861#p10861

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3379&p=8946&hilit=shop+vacuum#p8946

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=700&p=43768&hilit=head+gasket+bore#p43768

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10376&p=42845&hilit=head+gasket+bore#p42845

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4403&p=38976&hilit=head+gasket+bore#p38976
 
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grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
I got asked if a carpenters square is a decent strait edge , and if it can be used to check a cylinder head, well its not nearly as accurate as a machined checking bar but I'd bet most guys have never even seen one, or bought one, hell most guys don,t even know theres checking standards for machinist mics , thats one reason I try to post links as it helps guys understand what is being done and why

check the gasket surface with a strait edge machinist ruler, degrease it with acetone and use the correct for application, good quality gasket you won,t have any issues.
READ THIS AND LOOK CAREFULLY AT PICTURES

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-tpi-runners-to-not-leak.5307/#post-15751

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/removing-gaskets-the-wrong-way.10464/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-41064

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hetic-oil-cause-leaky-gaskets.2725/#post-7076

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sealants-and-threads.805/#post-45066

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tracking-down-an-oil-leak.1430/#post-20967


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/preventing-leaky-head-bolts-studs.50/#post-59

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/locating-vacume-leaks.882/#post-45944


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I own a milling machine and lots of machinist tooling , but Id bet 90% of the people reading this know what a carpenters square IS but less than 20% know what things like
machinist blue , and a dial indicator, feeler gauges ,machined strait edge, are or how to use those, or have ever checked a head for warpage.
I also cringe at the total lack of knowledge about what some machining processes involve and blind trust many guys have in local machine shops. Ive had shops try and charge me for jobs they could not possibly have done with the machinery they have on hand!
I,m SO glad I purchased both my welders and a decent mill before I retired, because I sure could never afford those tools now... in fact I just for grins looked at the current cost of a similar mill and see the cost is at least 75% higher than it was back 10-15 years ago when I purchased most of my larger machine tools,
t20828.jpg

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http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Shop-Fox- ... 49-/T20828


viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4630&p=39788&hilit=bore+gauge#p39788

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10363&p=43806&hilit=plastigauge#p43806

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=10213&p=40551&hilit=plastigauge#p40551

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726&p=26440&hilit=plastigauge#p26440

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grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
DorianL said:
I would have to say at the end of this one…. OOOPS!!!!!!


YOUR HARDLY ALONE AND ID BE LYING IF I SAID ID NEVER DONE IT IN THE PAST THE WRONG WAY, BUT YOU EVENTUALLY LEARN THERES A REASON YOU DO THINGS A CERTAIN WAY, AND UNFORTUNATELY MANY TIMES YOU LEARN BY SCREWING UP EXPENSIVE PARTS :roll: :oops:



a SMALL PARTS BLAST CABINET
http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasive-blast-cabinet-68893.html
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https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/89397301

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https://www.zoro.com/north-by-honeywell-northtm-5500-series-half-mask-kit-l-5501n95l/i/G3970355/
http://www.harborfreight.com/21-oz-hopper-gravity-feed-spot-blaster-gun-95793.html


Ive generally used and strongly suggest you consider using, one or both of these when using angle grinders or while porting heads due to learning from past experiences
safegog.png

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-Safet ... 220499-_-N

http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable ... 46526.html
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and an effective but pitiably slow hand held toy sand blaster for my air compressor
which only proves you can get the job done with the wrong tools if your persistent enough

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Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
philly said:

NOOOOO ...... Say it ain't true !!!

LOL, you got to respect someone when they will admit the truth about
something they have done !!!

You crack me up sometimes !!! :lol:

 

philly

solid fixture here in the forum
if you ever happen across the oil pan for a datsun L motor you'll understand why the wire wheel is the only practical solution. however iver never wire brushed a block,head, or manifold surface... may have used sandpaper tho!
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
oil pan to block surfaces, and valve cover gaskets, t-stat gaskets, front timing cover gaskets , are far less critical especially with the newer synthetic one piece gaskets
the heads and block surfaces must be very carefully examined for damage or warping issues and if found those issues must be corrected, before any new head gaskets installed, over time steam can and will cut grooves in even cast iron blocks and rather easily in softer aluminum.
a little bit of sealant spread along the gasket, and especially in the 4 corners and around the crank main cap and oil pan end seals areas,does help
ultracop2.jpg

For more information, check out www.permatex.com. You’ll find product specs, technical data sheets, and instructional videos to help you learn more about which Permatex Gasket Maker is right for your job.
In my experience, the black rtv works ok,
but the high heat gray or copper gasket sealant has always worked a bit better
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I prefer this for most of the jobs where silicone type gasket sealants get used like intake gaskets and valve cover gaskets

gasketse1.jpg

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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sealants-and-threads.805/#post-71928

truthfully all three sealants work in a wide range odf applications, they work , best,if the surfaces were cleaned and de-greased prior to the sealants application,
of the sealant you select, so I doubt you,ll have any issues,
given a choice, Id have selected the high temp copper or as a back-up the high temp gray,
but like I stated I doubt any of the three would fail to do the job.
the key is proper surface, prep, de- greasing and cleaning, prior to the sealant application, and not over tightening the bolts.





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On oil pans I prefer studs, and an oil pan back plate
panback1.jpg

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you might want to Use with P/N 12553058 RH and P/N 12553059 LH oil pan reinforcement plates to distribute the bolt stress on the oil pan rail for 1985 and earlier oil pans P/N 14088501 (LH) and P/N 14088502 (RH).1986 and newer

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oving-gaskets-the-wrong-way.10464/#post-43962

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/head-gasket-related.1859/#post-50617

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/which-sealant-goes-where.700/#post-43768

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sbc-head-gasket-choice.11070/#post-49297
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=115&p=142&hilit=synthetic+gasket#p142

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-pan-gasket-still-small-leak.3084/#post-8194
 
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philly

solid fixture here in the forum
if you apply it correctly its very forgiving of uneven or gouged surfaces, you cant just wad the stuff on there thick and all willy-nilly
 
8

87vette81big

Guest
philly said:
i started using hi temp silicone for certain surfaces like the L series oil pan and where gaskets are NLA or atleast not readily available

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/prod ... 194-detail
That's what I use for RTV Silicone 99% of the time Phil.
Ultra Grey. Stuff is the Best.
I use Ultra Copper still on occasion too.
Makes a great Header gasket subsitute that will not blow out ever on a Hotrod or Racecar.
Use on Racecars Phil. Because they dont care about Looks.
Just go fast, No Header leaks & Win a must
 

philly

solid fixture here in the forum
87vette81big said:
philly said:
i started using hi temp silicone for certain surfaces like the L series oil pan and where gaskets are NLA or atleast not readily available

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/prod ... 194-detail
That's what I use for RTV Silicone 99% of the time Phil.
Ultra Grey. Stuff is the Best.
I use Ultra Copper still on occasion too.
Makes a great Header gasket subsitute that will not blow out ever on a Hotrod or Racecar.
Use on Racecars Phil. Because they dont care about Looks.
Just go fast, No Header leaks & Win a must

yep ive used the copper spray on a head gasket and the copper goop on exhaust too. good stuff!
 
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