I got asked if you were forced to start from scratch ,to buy a single hunting rifle , for all your hunting , what would you select, I can tell you after 45 plus years of hunting deer and elk, almost any decent 270 win-375 h&h will get the job done, a 450 marlin caliber Browning BLR would be a very effective choice, in most areas, and yes its best at under 250 yards range, but Id bet 80% plus of all big game is shot at under 250 yards. its more about the skill of the guy who uses it than the head stamp on the cartridge case. knowing what I know now
I could have saved WHEEL BARROWS full of cash by purchasing a 450 marlin caliber browning BLR for short to moderate range and a 340 WBY or 375 H&H caliber synthetic stocked stainless bolt action for general use on elk hunts and sticking to the two for all my hunting,
and if limited to just one a a 340 WBY or 375 H&H caliber synthetic stocked stainless bolt action for general use works everywhere on almost everything
once you have total confidence in the rifle you carry its makes little sense to keep trying new stuff the money and times better spent else ware but it took me decades to fully appreciate that fact
yet, when thinking about that for a few seconds the answers came fairly fast, but keep in mind I,m referring here to hunting ELK and deer, not small game, and in the last 43 plus years of hunting deer and elk I could probably count ALL the chances Ive seen to take a shot at the deer and elk Ive seen during hunting season at over 350 yards on one hand, so I see the need for a rifle that reaches out past 400 yards effectively as very low on my list of requirements. a rifles just a tool used by the hunter and we all develop favorites or characteristics we prefer. but its the hunters skill and experience ,not the rifle to a large extent that will determine your success. a good hunter could use a 257 roberts or a 458 win, and the results would be similar for the kind of hunting Ive done for the past 43 plus years,I could and most likely will hunt deer and elk the rest of my life with the same 340 wby, or 375 H&H , I've used for decades, on most hunts, with zero issues,
but I doubt the result would change if I grabbed a 450 marlin, 358 win or 270 win. or 25/06 as I headed out the door,
its not the rifles, or caliber as much as the skill and experience of the guy using it that counts.
heres good advise
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... g.firearms
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... stic_Black
use of a cartridge holder is frequently a good idea
you may not agree with my choices and thats fine, and I will freely admit could use something like a BLR in caliber 30/06 with a 200 grain speer bullet , with good results,and have done that before, so theres no need to get exotic or use the heavier calibers I prefer. any of the three rifles and calibers mentioned woulds suit me just fine and all the loads listed will produce under 1.5" groups at 100 yards in those rifles in my experience
no question,after thinking about it a bit two other choices also come to mind rather quickly, and you might be surprised because the remington slide actions hardly exotic or all that expensive or overly accurate, but either rifle is fully functional.
ID most likely buy either a rem 7600 in 35 whelen,a browning BLR in 358 win,
250 speer bullet,44 grains of imr 4064 and a 215 fed primer has been my standard 358 win load in my blr AND THE SAME LOAD IVE LOADED FOR THE 4 OTHER GUYS I KNOW WHO USE 358 WIN BLR CARBINES
sight in 3.5" high at 100 yards puts it almost dead on at 200 yards and about 1" low at 300 yards, thats been an effective combo for DECADES
or a SAKO 375 H&H carbine,if I was starting over but the 30/06 BLR is also a good choice here, as either rifle does nothing really perfectly, but both do damn near every type of hunting I do fairly well .
it would be hard to choose between any of the three of them but the rifles or the SAKO carbine would most likely get the nod and a top quality 2x7x scope with a heavy duplex cross hair reticule would be the next purchase
http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... ibers.aspx
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr
when I started hunting ELK back in the late 1960s I was told by the more experienced old geezers that the "best elk rifle ever made, is the remington 760 in caliber 30/06)I bought one and had good results, but was not overly impressed, even thought the first two elk I shot died quickly from a single shot, each.
a few years later and having gained a good deal more experience I purchased a 7600 in 35 wheelen and loaded it with speer 250 gain bullets over a stiff charged of IMR 4320.
by that time I had realized that the fairly light weight, easy handling and ability to have a fast second shot available were all assets worth having.
If your not getting good accuracy from a remington slide action in 35 whelen caliber,before you give up on the slide action remington, Id suggest carefully cleaning the bore and chamber to remove all copper fouling and use of SPEER 250 grain bullets, used with a 215 fed primer, in handloads with those bullets seated out to max cartridge length that the rifle functions correctly with, over 55 grains of H4320 its been a dependable combo for decades in all the slide action remington 35 whelens in our elk camp.
remington rifles need to have carefully cleaned rifling to function at best accuracy.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212453
I know several guys who have found the lighter 180-220 grain bullets were less than impressive for accuracy and a fouled bore made things noticeably worse, a good ammonia base bore cleaner and a good bore brush and linen patches can do wonders for accuracy
you need to push those 250 speers out at near 2300fps-2400fps minimum velocity to get best accuracy
Ive owned and hunted with a sako manlicher carbine in caliber 375 H&H for 35 plus years, mine looks very similar to this but mines darker walnut wood.
be aware the wood forward of the barrel band needs to be epoxy bedded to the main stock or it will move forward under repeat recoil.
I cut two parallel grooves inside my front stock extending about 3" in both directions and carefully fitted two 6" long 3/16" thread rods and bedding epoxy, into the grooves, this cured that issue.
if you had a chance to buy a carbine like that Id say jump on it , I paid nearly $1000 for mine decades ago.
and yes both bullet weights work but the 270 grains seem to work better
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
Ive found both 235grain and 270 grain bullets and WW760 with a 215 fed primer works well as an elk hunting load
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212471
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212472
now the bullet does all the work and with a 35 whelen I don,t see any need for anything but the 250 grain speer bullet loaded to 2500 fps which can be done with 55 grains of imr 4320 and a 215 federal primer, in my rifle
on the 375 H&H Id be using a 270 grain speer or hornady loaded over a stiff charge of 77 grains of WW760 and a 215 federal primer.
with a 30/06 56.5 grains of H4831 and a 215 federal primer under a 200 grain speer bullet gets the nod.
you'll most likely notice I prefer a heavy bullet, in my hunting rifles, thats because Ive consistently found they work, well, and a single well placed hit drops game, I,ve seen too many guys who thought high velocity, magnum energy levels and flat trajectory was required, but in my experience a heavy bullet launched at about 2500fps-2700fps has given the best results, and while I have zero problem using a 340 wby with a 250 grain bullet at 2900 fps, its a heavy rifle thats power is seldom required. and its not as easy to carry around in steep canyons.
you could flip a coin to select the best choice, of the three, the BLR 30/06 is certainly the cheapest to feed and the sakos obviously the most expensive to buy and get ammo for , but they all have advantages and faults.
now many of you guys may remember I hunt mostly with a 340 wby fibermark rifle, and while that rifles proven to be excellent in most respects its fairly heavy and a bit longer than ideal, what you get for the extra barrel length and power is the ability to reach out easily past 500 yards and knock the crap out of anything you hit, yes thats impressive, but Ive seldom needed the range, or power, but yes its nice knowing its there to use.. the powers nice and the 375 H&H sako carbine listed above retains much of the power while remaining rather handy in size and weight.
any of the rifles will work but having the larger and heavier projectiles seems to be an advantage from the results Ive seen over the years.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
http://www.reloadammo.com/35whelenload.htm
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
making a shot also varies a great deal with conditions terrain and lighting,
while I practice out too 500 yards every chance I get, I vastly prefer taking shots while sitting and use of a bi-pod and sling,
most Of the elk and deer I've shot were taken at ranges under 300 yards, simply because the areas I hunt,
tend to be thicker aspen and conifer and rather steep narrow canyons
leaning on a tree, trunk, or over a blow down,
and / or use of that bi-pod and sling with the rifle,are very common, in my experience.
if you walk one slope of some canyon watching the far slope your potential shot ranges rarely exceed 300 yards due to terrain limitations.
that and the fact you can,t see due to the aspen and conifer growth and elk not being stupid enough to wonder out into open areas during the daylight
pictures like these are much more common in my experience than open fields you occasionally see in magazines of elk pictures posted
trust me when I tell you being in good physical shape and having the endurance to get into and out of the canyons will be more important that the rifle or its caliber, and in most cases you'll spend days between opportunity,s to shoot and ranges of less than 100 yards are common
I could have saved WHEEL BARROWS full of cash by purchasing a 450 marlin caliber browning BLR for short to moderate range and a 340 WBY or 375 H&H caliber synthetic stocked stainless bolt action for general use on elk hunts and sticking to the two for all my hunting,
and if limited to just one a a 340 WBY or 375 H&H caliber synthetic stocked stainless bolt action for general use works everywhere on almost everything
once you have total confidence in the rifle you carry its makes little sense to keep trying new stuff the money and times better spent else ware but it took me decades to fully appreciate that fact
yet, when thinking about that for a few seconds the answers came fairly fast, but keep in mind I,m referring here to hunting ELK and deer, not small game, and in the last 43 plus years of hunting deer and elk I could probably count ALL the chances Ive seen to take a shot at the deer and elk Ive seen during hunting season at over 350 yards on one hand, so I see the need for a rifle that reaches out past 400 yards effectively as very low on my list of requirements. a rifles just a tool used by the hunter and we all develop favorites or characteristics we prefer. but its the hunters skill and experience ,not the rifle to a large extent that will determine your success. a good hunter could use a 257 roberts or a 458 win, and the results would be similar for the kind of hunting Ive done for the past 43 plus years,I could and most likely will hunt deer and elk the rest of my life with the same 340 wby, or 375 H&H , I've used for decades, on most hunts, with zero issues,
but I doubt the result would change if I grabbed a 450 marlin, 358 win or 270 win. or 25/06 as I headed out the door,
its not the rifles, or caliber as much as the skill and experience of the guy using it that counts.
heres good advise
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... g.firearms
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... stic_Black
use of a cartridge holder is frequently a good idea
you may not agree with my choices and thats fine, and I will freely admit could use something like a BLR in caliber 30/06 with a 200 grain speer bullet , with good results,and have done that before, so theres no need to get exotic or use the heavier calibers I prefer. any of the three rifles and calibers mentioned woulds suit me just fine and all the loads listed will produce under 1.5" groups at 100 yards in those rifles in my experience
no question,after thinking about it a bit two other choices also come to mind rather quickly, and you might be surprised because the remington slide actions hardly exotic or all that expensive or overly accurate, but either rifle is fully functional.
ID most likely buy either a rem 7600 in 35 whelen,a browning BLR in 358 win,
250 speer bullet,44 grains of imr 4064 and a 215 fed primer has been my standard 358 win load in my blr AND THE SAME LOAD IVE LOADED FOR THE 4 OTHER GUYS I KNOW WHO USE 358 WIN BLR CARBINES
sight in 3.5" high at 100 yards puts it almost dead on at 200 yards and about 1" low at 300 yards, thats been an effective combo for DECADES
or a SAKO 375 H&H carbine,if I was starting over but the 30/06 BLR is also a good choice here, as either rifle does nothing really perfectly, but both do damn near every type of hunting I do fairly well .
it would be hard to choose between any of the three of them but the rifles or the SAKO carbine would most likely get the nod and a top quality 2x7x scope with a heavy duplex cross hair reticule would be the next purchase
http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... ibers.aspx
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr
when I started hunting ELK back in the late 1960s I was told by the more experienced old geezers that the "best elk rifle ever made, is the remington 760 in caliber 30/06)I bought one and had good results, but was not overly impressed, even thought the first two elk I shot died quickly from a single shot, each.
a few years later and having gained a good deal more experience I purchased a 7600 in 35 wheelen and loaded it with speer 250 gain bullets over a stiff charged of IMR 4320.
by that time I had realized that the fairly light weight, easy handling and ability to have a fast second shot available were all assets worth having.
If your not getting good accuracy from a remington slide action in 35 whelen caliber,before you give up on the slide action remington, Id suggest carefully cleaning the bore and chamber to remove all copper fouling and use of SPEER 250 grain bullets, used with a 215 fed primer, in handloads with those bullets seated out to max cartridge length that the rifle functions correctly with, over 55 grains of H4320 its been a dependable combo for decades in all the slide action remington 35 whelens in our elk camp.
remington rifles need to have carefully cleaned rifling to function at best accuracy.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212453
I know several guys who have found the lighter 180-220 grain bullets were less than impressive for accuracy and a fouled bore made things noticeably worse, a good ammonia base bore cleaner and a good bore brush and linen patches can do wonders for accuracy
you need to push those 250 speers out at near 2300fps-2400fps minimum velocity to get best accuracy
Ive owned and hunted with a sako manlicher carbine in caliber 375 H&H for 35 plus years, mine looks very similar to this but mines darker walnut wood.
be aware the wood forward of the barrel band needs to be epoxy bedded to the main stock or it will move forward under repeat recoil.
I cut two parallel grooves inside my front stock extending about 3" in both directions and carefully fitted two 6" long 3/16" thread rods and bedding epoxy, into the grooves, this cured that issue.
if you had a chance to buy a carbine like that Id say jump on it , I paid nearly $1000 for mine decades ago.
and yes both bullet weights work but the 270 grains seem to work better
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
Ive found both 235grain and 270 grain bullets and WW760 with a 215 fed primer works well as an elk hunting load
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212471
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212472
now the bullet does all the work and with a 35 whelen I don,t see any need for anything but the 250 grain speer bullet loaded to 2500 fps which can be done with 55 grains of imr 4320 and a 215 federal primer, in my rifle
on the 375 H&H Id be using a 270 grain speer or hornady loaded over a stiff charge of 77 grains of WW760 and a 215 federal primer.
with a 30/06 56.5 grains of H4831 and a 215 federal primer under a 200 grain speer bullet gets the nod.
you'll most likely notice I prefer a heavy bullet, in my hunting rifles, thats because Ive consistently found they work, well, and a single well placed hit drops game, I,ve seen too many guys who thought high velocity, magnum energy levels and flat trajectory was required, but in my experience a heavy bullet launched at about 2500fps-2700fps has given the best results, and while I have zero problem using a 340 wby with a 250 grain bullet at 2900 fps, its a heavy rifle thats power is seldom required. and its not as easy to carry around in steep canyons.
you could flip a coin to select the best choice, of the three, the BLR 30/06 is certainly the cheapest to feed and the sakos obviously the most expensive to buy and get ammo for , but they all have advantages and faults.
now many of you guys may remember I hunt mostly with a 340 wby fibermark rifle, and while that rifles proven to be excellent in most respects its fairly heavy and a bit longer than ideal, what you get for the extra barrel length and power is the ability to reach out easily past 500 yards and knock the crap out of anything you hit, yes thats impressive, but Ive seldom needed the range, or power, but yes its nice knowing its there to use.. the powers nice and the 375 H&H sako carbine listed above retains much of the power while remaining rather handy in size and weight.
any of the rifles will work but having the larger and heavier projectiles seems to be an advantage from the results Ive seen over the years.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
http://www.reloadammo.com/35whelenload.htm
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
making a shot also varies a great deal with conditions terrain and lighting,
while I practice out too 500 yards every chance I get, I vastly prefer taking shots while sitting and use of a bi-pod and sling,
most Of the elk and deer I've shot were taken at ranges under 300 yards, simply because the areas I hunt,
tend to be thicker aspen and conifer and rather steep narrow canyons
leaning on a tree, trunk, or over a blow down,
and / or use of that bi-pod and sling with the rifle,are very common, in my experience.
if you walk one slope of some canyon watching the far slope your potential shot ranges rarely exceed 300 yards due to terrain limitations.
that and the fact you can,t see due to the aspen and conifer growth and elk not being stupid enough to wonder out into open areas during the daylight
pictures like these are much more common in my experience than open fields you occasionally see in magazines of elk pictures posted
trust me when I tell you being in good physical shape and having the endurance to get into and out of the canyons will be more important that the rifle or its caliber, and in most cases you'll spend days between opportunity,s to shoot and ranges of less than 100 yards are common
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