shop ceiling fans

[grumpyvette]

My shops 2800 sq ft, and 16 ft tall to the rafters, its got (21) 60" industrial ceiling fans
and a couple 2700CFM evac fans on the roof

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow- ... /100072633
http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans- ... ogId=10053

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow- ... /100072633

http://www.lightingdirect.com/broan-356 ... 25273&aid=

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10467

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shop-floor-fans.16123/

SHOPS are seldom the correct temperature to work in, in winter they get cold and heat rises, leaving the hard concrete floors a P.I.T.A. to be rolling around on,in summer you need a significant breeze to keep cooler, in moth cases having air moving in the shop helps,
youll need two types of fans , roof fans exhaust attic heat and shop ceiling fans keep the air moving briskly , the size of your shops floor space and ceiling height will have a huge effect on what youll want to use,
I installed 17 60" home depot fans on my shops 16' tall rafters two outer parallel rows spaced about 10 feet apart with 6 each row and a center row with 5 fans, spaced about 10 feet apart) and two 2700cfm attic exhaust fans, when both sets are in use there's a significant air flow thru the shop to make even 90 degree Florida summers bearable in my non-air conditioned shop
Usually ceiling fans have a switch controlling their direction of rotation, the best config I found after months of testing is to configure about 1/2 the fans at one end of the shop where I don,t do as much work pushing air up to and into the rafters while the other half of the fans in the area near the lift push air down to the floor, this provides a significant circulation of air flow year round and allows and exhaust fumes to quickly reach and be efficiently expelled, out thru the roof, by the roof evacuation fans

related threads
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4517&p=11937&hilit=+heater+shop#p11937

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2708&p=8485&hilit=+heater+shop#p8485

 

[55bowtie]

Theres a company called The Big Ass Fan Company heres an 8 ft floor fan and the ceiling fans can go to 24 ft across

 

[100% Chevy]

I guess I'm cheap!
I'm using 3 left-over condensing unit fans.One mounted in the top of the wall at each end of my shop and one I use on the floor.
The shop is 50'deep and 75'long.With 12' roof.
These fans move a lot of air,but they don't cool the air,so it's still 100 degrees in the afternoon!
I also have a water fountain!
Cold water and a breeze do help a lot.
Mike.

 

[chromebumpers]

Grumpy, are your fans set to turn in the correct direction for the summer? Counter clock wise rotation will pull the heat down from the ceiling making things miserable. I ask because I see fans turning in the wrong direction in quite a few places and nobody notices.

 

[grumpyvette]

Grumpy, are your fans set to turn in the correct direction for the summer? Counter clock wise rotation will pull the heat down from the ceiling making things miserable. I ask because I see fans turning in the wrong direction in quite a few places and nobody notices.

good question and you may or may not agree with what I settled on, I naturally have the roof duct or evac fans pulling air up out of the rafters and pushing that out over the roof exterior, I have the 9 fans on the west end of the shop pulling air up into the rafter and the 12 fans on the east end blowing to the floor , this results in a very noticeable circulation in the shop making it feel a good deal cooler than it is in reality according to the thermometer

the problem, with all the fans operating is not the heat being an issue ,any longer, its simply you can,t put a book or reference material down as it flys off any surfaces due to the 10-15 mpg breeze in the shop.

home depot 60" industrial fans put out a decent breeze

I know several guys that purchased two or three of these 60" diameter, shop floor fans
(yes they are expensive but over the long run the price is far lower than air conditioning the shop and paying the electric bill.)
and they stick them in the garage door opening with the shop garage door lowered to just over the fan height
https://www.homedepot.com/p/MaxxAir...Fan-with-Steel-Casters-BF60BDORGPRO/300151738

roof duct fans come in various sizes, I got the largest I could locate at the time the shop was built

I'm posting this because I decided to add an additional roof or attic heat vent fan to the shop , I called a local roofer to get an estimate on the cost, I was quoted $175 for the ducted roof fan and $550 labor for the instal, look at the links below and you will get a good idea how inflated those cost estimates are

watch the video's
youll ideally want one 1600cfm fan for every 1500 sq feet of floor area as a minimum, but one 1600cfm fan for every 1000 sq feet of area is going to remove heat trapped in any rafter/attic area far more efficiently, the idea here is to constantly vent otherwise trapped ,hot attic air and maintain a constant moving air flow thru the rafters as it tends to keep the rafters dry, and lower cooling costs and make ceiling fans cooling the shop more efficient, and effective

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow- ... /100072633 $131.00 / each
(and ID bet money the fan the contractor has in mind is not this good)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dehumidifier-in-your-shop.10478/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-a-shop-roof-vent-attic-fan.10467/#post-43831

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shop-ceiling-fans.4865/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-a-concrete-slab-to-work-on.5007/#post-57196

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shop-drainage.5035/#post-16042
BTW HF has several reciprocating saws,this ones got several good reviews ( at $60 I'm still thinking its not very good quality)

most of the cheaper reciprocating saw versions are total crap and can,t cut butter on a hot day,
Ive had several of the $29 and $39 versions and they are not worth the time to take out of the packaging in my opinion, both of the ones I was given as gifts, stalled easily against any resistance.
http://www.harborfreight.com/9-amp-heav ... -8664.html

heres a name brand (but at $230 its not cheap)

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... 9?fromRR=Y

 

[chromebumpers]

I cannot argue with what works for you. I still have my roots in the family's construction business where, back in the day and among other things I engineered commercial HVAC systems. A good air rate is 4 min. @ a pressure of 0.125 and is easy to figure and a bit more accurate if I knew the space from the rafter bottom to the roof's under side - did you install insulation under the roofing (between the roofing and the trusses?

 

[grumpyvette]

the rafters start at 16 feet, and theres no ceiling , in the shop, I spaced the fans, starting at about 8 feet out from the outer wall in 3 rows of 7 equally spaced, you can,t stand anyplace in the shop and not be within 7-8 feet of a fan, I placed the 4 foot long florescent' quad light fixtures between the lights and the fans, plus at least 8 wall mount, motion sensor, dual 200 watt flood lights

 

[chromebumpers]

I was referring to the distance between the 16 foot (bottom of the trusses), to the underside of the roof. The photos are dark but from what I can see it looks like you have an "A" frame roof with a considerable amount of space from the 16 ft mark to the apex of the roof. A case could be made for cooling and heating efficiency when a ceiling is absent, but as I said before, if what you have is working for you then leave it alone. You have to understand, I hate paying an electric bill for lights and HVAC. I have a Geothermal system for the house. It cuts out the largest electrical drainers of an AC system, the running of a compressor and the compressor's fan. Even though I have up to date windows throughout, with over 70 windows heat gain can make the AC work overtime so many windows have 3M tint. Most rooms have high vaulted ceilings and the lower ceilings are 12 foot so with 6,500 sq. ft.there is a lot of wasted space. i made efficiency adjustments wherever one could be made. Sometimes efficiency requires a combination of alterations to see something works - kind of like trying to gain power in an auto.
I'm in the process of building a garage soon, I'll have to sub out more now then I originally planed but it's desperately needed. I will be incorporating fixed clear roof panels and perimeter high position, see-through wall windows for daytime lighting, low heat gain roofing and solar panels. I already have a reclaimed oil hot water/hydronic heater for efficient radiant heat. This garage could operate off the grid with what I now use in my home's attached 3 car garage.

 

[grumpyvette]

theres about 8ft above the lower horizontal ceiling rafter to the roof rafters at the peak

 

[chromebumpers]

WoW! That's a heavy duty building for non-commercial use! Does the building code require solid masonry construction? Is it 8" or 12 block? I could lay block and mix my own mortar from scratch and it still would cost a small fortune, up here it's nearly $5/block (labor & materials). Steel buildings can be beautiful and be made to match the house.

 

[chromebumpers]

theres about 8ft above the lower horizontal ceiling rafter to the roof rafters at the peak

So you have approx. 50,000 cu. ft. (With 8" walls) including the volume from the trusses up to the roof. With your 2 exhaust fans you are at 2.27 times longer then the ideal air exchange rate for a closed building.

 

[grumpyvette]

its cbs block with a solid rebar column vertically tied into the floor and tie beam about every 48" but with extra columns at the garage door frames

BOTH garage doors are 200mph wind rated (very expensive AT ALMOST $4K EACH ) 8FT TALL X 16 FT WIDE
i wanted the open garage doors to store along the shop wall so they didn,t effect fans or lighting and I wanted 12 ft plus for lift clearance so an 8 foot tall garage door required a 16 foot rafter height..... so by your estimate I need 3 more 2700 cfm exhaust roof fans?


RELATED THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=116

 

[87vette81big]

I Love Your Garage Grumpy.
Its Engineered Perfect.
BUILT TOUGH LIKE A BIG BLOCK CHEVROLET.

Here in the Midwest hurricanes are not an issue.
We have Tornadoes.
Rick sees them also in Oklahoma .

Conctrete very strong.
Some old barns around me over 100 years old.
Still standing.
Want something similar.
And match my property nice.
Found a few old barns,
Taking apart is the problem.

 

[chromebumpers]

Grumpy, if the system now in place works for you I don't have any recommendation for more fans. I'm just quoting from the "book of standards" so to speak. If turn-over is not fast enough fans will work overtime and the rate of heat gain back is faster. In another words, everything indoors has a coefficient for heat retention - the ability of the cars, tools, machinery, supplies, boxes, you name it, it will reach equilibrium in temperature relative to the surrounding air (or when materials have contact - like in a thermos). One rule of physics to remember is that "heat goes to cold,"
So if you have a 110 degree (F) room and it's loaded with furniture and it's been that temp for most of the day, most of the materials in that room will have that temperature. When you then open windows or turn on the AC the materials in that room must loose their heat to the ambient air to reach equilibrium. If rate exchange of moving air is too slow the dominant force of heat will never allow more then a few degrees differential. So if average potential for moving air is 8 to 12 degrees (reduction or gain - for heat or cooler air whatever you desire) With sufficient exhausting ability, then under powered exhausting will have considerably narrower margin in temperature. So trying to cool the room while exchange rate is adequate (no AC aided) could be as much as 12 degrees lower, some but not enough exhaust will see only 1 to 3 degrees lower. Note: moving air by exchange does offer a marginal reduction in humidity.
There is a whole other set of thermal laws when introducing a greater ability of dehumidifying

 

[chromebumpers]

That's one tough as nails garage! I'll bet it was every penny of $50K if not more - I wish I had it on my property! I'll be looking at pole barns for my place and transporting a crew of Amish to erect it!

I didn't notice any windows? Did you steal the plans from the Jehovah Witnesses? :lol:

 

[grumpyvette]

theres no windows and it cost me $137K, to build ,that included the lift installed,a bathroom with shower and sink, hot water heater,security system, and lighting,electric plumbing and fans because I sub contracted each item my self, but the county inspectors accessed its value at $240 K for taxes because they said it could not have been built for less, ( had all the receipts but they won,t budge on the tax assessment value
a good example of why is the electric work, fans and lighting, just the parts cost me over $7k my sons and I installed everything in conduit with at least 10 ga copper wire, the contractors wanted to use roof trusses built from 2"x4" lumber I INSISTED on 2"x8" lumber and paid $6k extra, the contractors suggested 15 year guarantee shingle roof , I insisted on 50 year guarantee shingles, that only cost $500 extra, the electrical contractors wanted to use 12 ga solid core copper wire I used 10 ga stranded for most of the stuff,the contractors didn,t quote a septic tank and drain field installed that alone cost me $10k , the contractors wanted to use a 4" thick 2600 PIS concrete in the floor I insisted on a full 8" under the area with the lift and 6" over the rest with 4000psi concrete and that only added about $1500, peanuts to the total cost , I put out bids and got electrical contractor bids for $29K and up for less work than I eventually did and with inferior components quoted

you might want to read thru these threads and read carefully

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6403

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=116

 

[chromebumpers]

Grumpy, you held back on telling about all the good stuff! I just figured the footings,excavation, block work concrete and roof for a 28 X100 ft building (no doors or anything else!

I would have fought harder on the issue of tax assessment if you could prove a lower cost with legal receipts. I won an appeal on my home. The county had me taxed on sq footage and lot size and not my purchase price, it was initially $22,500/yr. and after an appeal it's now down to $11,600/yr. a small time builder built the home in '06 just before high-end homes became very hard to sell. The house sat unoccupied for the next three years mostly because it was over priced and the builder wouldn't lower the price. When he claimed bankruptcy the bank holding the mortgage lowered the price way down to get it off their books in time for the Federal bailout money. Back in '00 to '04 the house could have easily sold for the asking price of 1.8 mil but the bank wanted it gone in 10 days and we bought it for $720,000. At the time we bought there was a load of short sales like this, you won't find any now.

 

[chromebumpers]

theres no windows and it cost me $137K, to build ,that included the lift installed,a bathroom with shower and sink, hot water heater,security system, and lighting,electric plumbing and fans because I sub contracted each stem my self, but the county inspectors accessed its value at $240 K for taxes because they said it could not have been built for less, ( had all the receipts but they won,t budge on the tax assessment value
a good example of why is the electric work, fans and lighting, just the parts cost me over $7k my sons and I installed everything in conduit with at least 10 ga copper wire, the contractors wanted to use roof trusses built from 2"x4" lumber I INSISTED on 2"x8" lumber and paid $6k extra, the contractors suggested 15 year guarantee shingle roof , I insisted on 50 year guarantee shingles, that only cost $500 extra, the electrical contractors wanted to use 12 ga solid core copper wire I used 10 ga stranded for most of the stuff,the contractors didn,t quote a septic tank and drain field installed that alone cost me $10k , the contractors wanted to use a 4" thick 2600 PIS concrete in the floor I insisted on a full 8" under the area with the lift and 6" over the rest with 4000psi concrete and that only added about $1500, peanuts to the total cost , I put out bids and got electrical contractor bids for $29K and up for less work than I eventually did and with inferior components quoted

I believe labor costs and contractor profit margins are a lot less where you live. The cheapest septic system here for a mound and drainfield is no less then $20,000, I think most guys in that business get together on their pricing. You get large discounts for paying your bill in cash, but unless the guy is someone you trust you can get screwed really fast and you can count on that!

I have an oversized 3 car attached garage 40' X 26' with over-sized doors, no posts and 12' ceilings. It's better then most but I need more space and definitely more space for my lift. I should have put the lift in the center and robbed a little space from the other two bays.

 

[chromebumpers]

With this garage you could have made your own painting bay, I guess you still could. I was toying with that idea, it's a lot cheaper then buying a paint room. You could get some sponsors and have your own cable show for car repairs and DIY garage/shop work at home. :mrgreen:

 

[87vette81big]

The wife jokes around I need an Amish Crew to build the barn workshop I want Rich .
I just like those Big Old Barns.
The upper loft area in those old barns are just huge.
Doubles storage room.
With a big Ridge Beam you can store 40,000 + Lbs of parts no problem.
Still have an open lower floor with no posts.
I am zoned agricultural . Don't even need a permit to build.
Also if it looks like a crappy old barn they can not Tax me much
Maybe $250 more per year.
I have checked out post buildings.
They are so cheaply made .
I don't see them holding up very well to even a mild midwest tornadoe.
I look at 100 year old barns & think of all the crazy thunderstorms & high winds endured.
Still there.