TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

[Indycars]

Busterrm,
I had already had a couple of coats on the pan, so I didn't go back the strip it again for the 2nd time. The block may be a different story, we'll see.
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After all the gold iridate was gone, I used the Por15 Marine Clean and then their Prep & Ready. The paint seems to have good adhesion now.

I was still having problems with junk in the paint when I was done, mainly on the top surfaces. So I thought it was stuff in the air, but after I started straining the paint thru the filter shown below it was much better.



I may still go back and color sand down to 2500 grit, not sure yet.





Time to start working on the block!
.

 

[Indycars]

I had a hold of the camshaft and was moving the block, when the cam jumped out of the bearings when I wasn't ready. It doesn't seem to be very deep, maybe .006-.008".

Anything I can do at this point or is it OK to ignore this???

 

[grumpyvette]

Id replace that, damaged cam bearing, youve put too much effort into doing things correctly to use a damaged bearing, the cost of a full set, that youll need too get, is just not that high, neither is it difficult to replace and yes it will drop your oil pressure a bit if left damaged, I don,t know how much it would reduce the pressure but for something that cheap and easy to replace I would NEVER even consider using it in that condition.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-A ... /?rtype=10

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLE-S ... refilter=1

it should be a no brainer to replace , but read this link

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1479

 

[Indycars]

Is there anything to be gained by purchasing the more expensive Summit tool versus Allstar Performance tool???

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900130/
Summit Tool $62



Allstar Performance $32
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL96470/

 

[grumpyvette]

Is there anything to be gained by purchasing the more expensive Summit tool versus Allstar Performance tool???

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900130/
Summit Tool $62

Allstar Performance $32
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL96470/

short answer,... not much if anything, is gained ,if your only working on sbc engines



http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... IMBEPMCMAA

http://www.tooltopia.com/atd-tools-8620 ... lebase_18u

READ THIS THREAD AND SUB LINKS, pay especial attention to the location of the oil feed hole locations and the fact that bearing locations are not interchangeable
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1479

I know this will sound absolutely crazy, but I purchased the tool above (in the red case) decades ago for $45, that tool now sells for $170 and while it works great,and it works on almost any engine or bearing size Ive also used a custom fabricated hand made , cam bearing tools like this one pictured below , that my dad made on a lathe for me for less than $20 and at least 4-5 other tools and they all work, so ID just get the cheap one or make your own if you have lathe access, but a 24" long section of 3/4" thread rod is a better choice than a smaller diam.
the cheap ones generally push the bearing into place once its aligned with a few hammer taps, the more expensive ones generally use a threaded rod to draw the bearing into place giving a more precise placement but with practice either style tool works, just be aware that on many engines the bearings are NOT interchangeable for all locations in the block as sizes vary

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-ma ... 35881.html


I can see where building a custom cam bearing tool would not be overly difficult

 

[busterrm]

Busterrm,
I had already had a couple of coats on the pan, so I didn't go back the strip it again for the 2nd time. The block may be a different story, we'll see.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After all the gold iridate was gone, I used the Por15 Marine Clean and then their Prep & Ready. The paint seems to have good adhesion now.

I was still having problems with junk in the paint when I was done, mainly on the top surfaces. So I thought it was stuff in the air, but after I started straining the paint thru the filter shown below it was much better.



I may still go back and color sand down to 2500 grit, not sure yet.

Hey the oil pan looks great, I color sanded but I also compounded X 2 and got all the surface smooth and then put on a light coat of wax. It was not easy, but I learned that trick from an old paint and body man, who told me that smoothing out paint with compound can make it look acceptional.


Time to start working on the block!

 

[busterrm]

Indycar I was only suggesting what i did, what works for me maynot for others, and besides you have paint already on the pan. I think it did turn out very acceptional anyway. Good results are what we are after right!

 

[mathd]

Nice work with the oil pan,
Id also replace that cam bearing(usually if a nail catch the scratch its too deep.
Is the cam journal scratched too?

 

[Indycars]

Indycar I was only suggesting what i did, what works for me may not for others, and besides you have paint already on the pan.
I was trying to say why I didn't use your suggestion on the pan and that I DID seriously consider your idea. I don't want to offend anyone, when I don't use their idea or suggestion and it's hard to get that across with words only, in a forum.

I think it did turn out very acceptional anyway. Good results are what we are after right!
THANKS! Good results.......most definitely!

During preparation for painting the block I got the Por15 High Build primer out that I have and was planning on using it. But when I read you need to wait 24 hours before topcoating, I succumbed to wanting to get it done. I had taken 2 days of vacation so I could get this done and I'm still not there.

During cleanup on Tuesday (2nd day off), I discovered that there was some trash in the tip of the paint gun. It looked like a piece of paper towel. I had noticed that the whole time, that the pattern the gun was throwing seemed to be heavy at the top, now I think I know why. Last night I spent a couple of hours pulling the gun apart and cleaning everything. The gun is about 50 years old Devilbiss, I can't remember not seeing it in the garage growing up.

Anyway on Tuesday I did get the first coat on. The goal was to get a light even coat on the block, not always easy with all the nooks and crannies. Especially with the paint gun having problems with trash in the tip. Tonight I hope to get a 2nd coat of paint on.

 

[Indycars]

Nice work with the oil pan,
Thanks! I'm sure some who are reading this are thinking......."what the hell, it's only an oil pan"

Id also replace that cam bearing(usually if a nail catch the scratch its too deep.
The Dura-bond DT1T cam bearings are on order, along with the Allstar ALL96470 Engine Cam Bearing Installation Tool


Is the cam journal scratched too?
Good idea, I will need to give it a close visual inspection.

 

[Indycars]

Well I can't say I'm real happy with how it came out, but I am glad it's done. I guess it's something you have to do a few times to get the experience, so you can get it right. It was not easy to degrease and then keep the block wet for 10 minutes with the Por15 "Prep & Ready". It's pretty caustic and needs to be kept off the machined surfaces.




I took the time to paint each piece to the engine separately, which meant I had to tape off alot of different areas. For the freeze plugs I bought 8 PVC connectors at 59 cents each. With 3 wraps of tape they would just slide in. When it came time to remove them it was also very easy. I thought the paint might buildup and make them hard to remove.




Some of the pictures the paint looks to be very wavy and not very flat. But it's smoother than of the casting surface had not been ground off.



.

 

[grumpyvette]

Im constantly impressed with your attention to detail, while Ive deburred, polished and smoothed lots of blocks I generally just install the brass freeze plugs and paint similar to the info in these threads Ill post below.
I love the internal lifter gallery white paint, IM going to go that route on my next engine on all internal, non machined surfaces, but Id have selected a brighter color for the external block surface but hey, matching the oil pan paint colors smart.

GOT WONDER ABOUT THIS COLOR CHOICE

A bit more conventional

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2919

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=3774

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=+MAGNETS#p150

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1014

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2692

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4324

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=588

 

[Indycars]

I love the internal lifter gallery white paint, IM going to go that route on my next engine on all internal, non machined surfaces, but Id have selected a brighter color for the external block surface but hey, matching the oil pan paint colors smart.

It looks white in that picture, but it's actually silver.

The thought crossed my mind several times to go with a color other than black, but was afraid it wouldn't match candy apple red body.

 

[Indycars]

When I read the text below, it's not completely clear which way the file should be stroked across the bearing. It seems to be saying the file should be 90 degrees to how I'm showing it, but this seems to me to be the best way.





http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thrust-bearing-wear.619/#post-16818
A simple modification to the upper thrust bearing may be beneficial in some engines. Install the upper thrust bearing in the block to determine which thrust face is toward the rear of the engine. Using a small, fine tooth, flat file, increase the amount of chamfer to approximately .040" (1 mm) on the inside diameter edge of the bearing parting line. Carefully file at the centrally located oil groove and stroke the file at an angle toward the rear thrust face only, as shown in the illustration below. It is very important not to contact the bearing surface with the end of the file. The resulting enlarged ID chamfer will allow pressurized engine oil from the pre-existing groove to reach the loaded thrust face. This additional source of oiling will reach the loaded thrust face without passing through the bearing clearance first (direct oiling). Since there may be a load against the rear thrust face, oil flow should be restricted by that load and there should not be a noticeable loss of oil pressure. This modification is not a guaranteed "cure-all". However, the modification should help if all other conditions, such as surface finish, alignment, cleanliness and loading are within required limits.

 

[grumpyvette]

When I read the text below, it's not completely clear which way the file should be stroked across the bearing. It seems to be saying the file should be 90 degrees to how I'm showing it, but this seems to me to be the best way.

file strokes follow arrow direction only, angle about 30 degrees below edge and 30 degrees toward rear from center look at arrow
with fine single cut 6" flat file or small jewelers file, you want about a 1/16" wide bevel

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=619&p=16818&hilit=thrust+bearing+lubrication#p16818
A simple modification to the upper thrust bearing may be beneficial in some engines. Install the upper thrust bearing in the block to determine which thrust face is toward the rear of the engine. Using a small, fine tooth, flat file, increase the amount of chamfer to approximately .040" (1 mm) on the inside diameter edge of the bearing parting line. Carefully file at the centrally located oil groove and stroke the file at an angle toward the rear thrust face only, as shown in the illustration below. It is very important not to contact the bearing surface with the end of the file. The resulting enlarged ID chamfer will allow pressurized engine oil from the pre-existing groove to reach the loaded thrust face. This additional source of oiling will reach the loaded thrust face without passing through the bearing clearance first (direct oiling). Since there may be a load against the rear thrust face, oil flow should be restricted by that load and there should not be a noticeable loss of oil pressure. This modification is not a guaranteed "cure-all". However, the modification should help if all other conditions, such as surface finish, alignment, cleanliness and loading are within required limits.

 

[Indycars]

Like this ???

 

[grumpyvette]

yes exactly like that! remember the REAR thrust face takes higher loads that the forward facing thrust face shown here

so verify which part of the bearing your actually modifying for greater oil flow rates

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=619&p=16818&hilit=thrust+bearing+lubrication#p16818
A simple modification to the upper thrust bearing may be beneficial in some engines. Install the upper thrust bearing in the block to determine which thrust face is toward the rear of the engine. Using a small, fine tooth, flat file, increase the amount of chamfer to approximately .040" (1 mm) on the inside diameter edge of the bearing parting line. Carefully file at the centrally located oil groove and stroke the file at an angle toward the rear thrust face only, as shown in the illustration below. It is very important not to contact the bearing surface with the end of the file. The resulting enlarged ID chamfer will allow pressurized engine oil from the pre-existing groove to reach the loaded thrust face. This additional source of oiling will reach the loaded thrust face without passing through the bearing clearance first (direct oiling). Since there may be a load against the rear thrust face, oil flow should be restricted by that load and there should not be a noticeable loss of oil pressure. This modification is not a guaranteed "cure-all". However, the modification should help if all other conditions, such as surface finish, alignment, cleanliness and loading are within required limits.

file strokes follow arrow direction only, angle about 30 degrees below edge and 30 degrees toward rear from center look at arrow
with fine single cut 6" flat file or small jewelers file,you want about a 1/16" wide bevel

remember the REAR thrust face takes higher loads that the forward facing thrust face rear thrust face shown here

forward thrust face shown here
so verify which part of the bearing your actually modifying for greater oil flow rates

IT SHOULD take between 20lbs-25 lbs to start it spinning if the clearances are correct! and LESS than 20 lbs to keep it moving
IF it takes over 40 ft lbs to get it rotating ,youll need too DISASSEMBLE and FIND OUT WHY!

MORE USEFUL INFO

BE 100% SURE that the oil pump bolt or STUD doesn,t protrude past the inner main cap surface , because if it bears on the rear main bearing shell it will almost always result in a quickly failed rear bearing

 

[Indycars]

Ok, this is what I ended up with.

 

[Indycars]

I drug out all the pieces I sent to have balanced. I'm not sure if what they did actually causes any problems, but it sure looks like CRAP......drilling a hole and then welding it up. Grinding a flat side on the same counterweight. I have 20-30 pictures of the crank before it left my possession.

The flex plate and balancer were sent, but there are no indications that any machining was done to balance them, how likely is that they were perfect???

Am I over reacting???.....Comments ???





.

 

[grumpyvette]

as far as cosmetics, on the cranks machining, your correct that LOOKS too be rather poorly done work with little care to smoothing and potential stress risers, I doubt it will cause you any problem, its not in an area of any stress. I can,t really tell everything from the limited pictures but thats not how most of the cranks Ive had balanced and worked on looked after returning from the machine shop , but that doesn,t mean the cranks not balance,and its not necessarily going to cause you any problems. but if it was my crank Id avoid giving them any future parts or work., the better machine shops not only do good work, they tend too care how the work looks, as a finished product, and take a bit of time to polish up welds or radius sharp edges etc. not just want work they do to come in .. get paid for..and pushed out the door.



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