I got asked by a friend if I thought purchasing a custom lever action in 500 S&W would be a good idea
,he found one locally listed for $1900 that cost the original owner $2600,
he stated he wanted a devastating (STOPPING RIFLE), A 500 S&W is a pistol cartridge, that is HARDLY a stopping rifle,
it's a potent pistol cartridge ,but it has no where close to the power something like a 458 LOTT , 600 nitro express or 460 WBY has.
keep in mind that in the over 55 years I hunted deer and elk in multiple states ,
and those types of game are easily killed with a 270 win or 308 in the hands of a skilled marksman.
it was very rare to even see game at ranges over about 200 yards simply due to terrain and brush,
game tends to favor hanging out where food and cover is common.
I simply pointed out that similar ballistics could be had from a marlin in 45/70 or browning lever action, chambered in 450 marlin
the 450 marlin BLR rifle, if properly loaded with 400 -430 grain bullets is devastatingly effective,
in fact it's become a favorite rifle for many of the guys I hunt with.
carry what you shoot most accurately and worry, far more about IMPROVING
your skill in locating and getting in close for a well placed shot!
I don't remember anyone saying the hard cast bullets failed to exit or elk ran very far after impact.
the ideal stopping rifle throws a bullet of sufficient weight (mass and caliber) to drive lengthwise, completely through any animal,
and exiting leaving a devastating wound, while expanding to at least 1.25 times its original diameter.
obviously the ideal rifle changes with range and the animal your confronted with,
and it may make sense that the larger the animal, the larger and heavier the projectile ,
but that's only partly true as accurate shot placement, depth of penetration and destroying critical organs,
and a knowledge of the animals anatomy is FAR more critical
you'll have a hard time finding something faster more accurate or more lethal for use in the thick aspen and conifer than a browning BLR chambered in 450 marlin, loaded with 350-405 grain slugs that being said, most of the experienced elk hunters I've hunted with
for 5 plus decades started out with a dozen types of rifles yet now most older guys prefer the BLR in CALIBER 358 WIN , or a remington 7600 in caliber 35 whelen, we all started out reading magazines advising use of flat shooting bolt actions in 7mm and 300 mag calibers, over decades we found shots at elk at over 250 yards are very rare, and shorter lighter weight carbines that hit hard are ideal.
being well aware of both the games anatomy and your rifles limitations will be MANDATORY if you want to consistently drop game effectively. the cartridge you select is less critical than how well you understand the rifle so chambered limitations and how well you shoot!
you don't need a super long range magnum, most game is shot at well under 250 yards, what you do need is to carry and practice with a gun you handle well, can practice with and become proficient in its use, this is made far easier if you handload.
I suggested he buy a BROWNING BLR in caliber 358 win-450 marlin like I own,
if he shops carefully he can most likely find one under $1100, new
as it much less expensive and more powerful, and ammos cheaper.
big bore lever actions are very effective but are marginally limited in range ,
most have projectile velocity limits under 2300 fps with bullets in the 250 grains -405 grains of high enough sectional density to penetrate well and consistently. at under 200 yards where 90% plus of games shot.
a 500 S&W in a rifle might sound impressive but its less powerful than a 450 marlin or 45/70
and much less than a 458 win or 458 lott,
a 358 win, 35 whelen,338 win mag, 340 wby or 375 H&H have the range and bullet weight to be very effective
out past 200 yards in skilled hands
ok, most of us can easily spend decades hunting and never come close to having any need for a similar rifle ,
that might be required to stop a bear charge at bayonet ranges, under conditions
used to save our lives where we become the prey rather than the hunter.
you calculate power or muzzle energy with the following formula
bullet mass x velocity x velocity /divided by 450240= ft lbs of energy
most experienced hunters suggest you try to stay over 4000 ft lbs in a stopping rifle,
and over 2500 ft lbs, in a decent elk cartridge at the minimum, but of course range matters
and limit shots to ranges where you can consistently and accurately place your shots.
(in a 4" circle) and you damn well better know the games anatomy and location of vital organs
that knowledge and your skill, may be required,\ to save you from being killed by some vengeful angry, animal.
as always consistent and accurate, shot placement is a required component in any hunting kill.
most choices are a compromise, more recoil generally slows your efficiency making a follow-up second or third shot.
and you might only get a single shot or at most two, at much closer ranges, so absolute dependability is critical.
reality is that most people rarely hunt any animal that might attack you ,with the desire and persistence to warrant/require the use of a "stopping rifle" here in America, but there are a few exceptions.
now if you hunt AFRICA or ALASKA and game like elephants brown bear, lions or cape buffalo,
your obviously going to have someone point out that the 458 win or 458 LOTT have a long standing record of being used successfully,
both throw a .458 diameter bullet, but the 458 win is generally loaded with a 510 grain weight at about 2100 fps while the 458 LOTT can boost velocity about 200-250 fps faster with the same projectile.
yeah, the 45/70 and 450 marlin can be loaded with a 400-450 grain projectile and both are well known and effective , but neither has the velocity to become a true stopping rifle. (but either ones devastating on elk inside 250 yards in skilled hand when properly loaded,
, those velocities in any of the 458 caliber rifles, might seem a bit slow compared to other more common hunting cartridges, most of us are more familiar with like a 308 win, 30/06 , 270 win, 6.5 Mauser, or 7mm mag, but keep in mind most of the more common hunting cartridges throw a much lighter weight 135 grain-180 grain bullet at maybe 2400-3000 fps.
these may be lethal on deer or elk, and if it takes 20-30 seconds to drop a deer after bullet impact it might not be a huge problem ,
but that time lag, might be marginal or could be critical, if your rifle is asked to stop, a charging brown bear,
fully intent on shredding your butt, instantly at spitting distances.
being chewed on by a pissed off bear for 30 seconds, before it bleeds out, could easily be lethal
producing a wound that will rapidly become fatal, or killing something vs stopping a determined charge ,
by extensively breaking larger bones and driving a projectile through several yards of muscle, destroying organs reliably require a bit more penetration, and you can't have the projectile turn into glitter on impact with a heavy shoulder bone or glancing off a skull, even once in a 100 shots, with a stopping rifle.
there's a second class, of rifles with a bit more velocity, the 375-416 class where the rifles trade off a bit of projectile weight for a bit more projectile velocity
the 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, 375 H&H and 378 WEATHERBY, these throw a 270-300 grain bullet at 2400-3000 fps,
you might, with careful selection and research ,get a very marginal reduction in recoil ,
and higher velocity, making the rifle better for a flatter trajectory, while still providing very respectable penetration.
related info
there are larger bore lever actions that provide devastating power at closer ranges but none are STOPPING RIFLES,
but yeah they can be very effective at under 100 or so yards on larger game, especially like lions, bears elk etc.
these make excellent hunting rifles in skilled hands
btw
one of my close friend's used a ruger single shot 458 win with handloads ,
these lever action are not stopping rifles but have proven results on elk for decades
(as have several marlin 45/70 rifles used with 400 grain hard cart bullets)
and another used a browning BLR in caliber 450 marlin both have provided excellent results on ELK and DEER
we have used mostly 405 grain remington and speer bullets and 350 grain hornady bullets at 1900 fps (marlin 450)-2100 fps (458 win ruger)
shooting wood never much impressed me, as a test medium, and if you use a longer 8"-10" barrel in a 44 mag,
loaded with the correct alloy bullets (95% WW and 5% pure tin mixed by weight,
it easily shoots through most games vitales at ranges under 100 yards
as you get much better penetration in GAME,
a 405 grain hard cast zips through an elk and exits ,
even if larger bones are punched and broken in every case Ive seen.
keep in mind the heavier, 450-540 grain bullets from a 458 win or 458 lott penetrate even better
,he found one locally listed for $1900 that cost the original owner $2600,
he stated he wanted a devastating (STOPPING RIFLE), A 500 S&W is a pistol cartridge, that is HARDLY a stopping rifle,
it's a potent pistol cartridge ,but it has no where close to the power something like a 458 LOTT , 600 nitro express or 460 WBY has.
keep in mind that in the over 55 years I hunted deer and elk in multiple states ,
and those types of game are easily killed with a 270 win or 308 in the hands of a skilled marksman.
it was very rare to even see game at ranges over about 200 yards simply due to terrain and brush,
game tends to favor hanging out where food and cover is common.
I simply pointed out that similar ballistics could be had from a marlin in 45/70 or browning lever action, chambered in 450 marlin
the 450 marlin BLR rifle, if properly loaded with 400 -430 grain bullets is devastatingly effective,
in fact it's become a favorite rifle for many of the guys I hunt with.
carry what you shoot most accurately and worry, far more about IMPROVING
your skill in locating and getting in close for a well placed shot!
I don't remember anyone saying the hard cast bullets failed to exit or elk ran very far after impact.
the ideal stopping rifle throws a bullet of sufficient weight (mass and caliber) to drive lengthwise, completely through any animal,
and exiting leaving a devastating wound, while expanding to at least 1.25 times its original diameter.
obviously the ideal rifle changes with range and the animal your confronted with,
and it may make sense that the larger the animal, the larger and heavier the projectile ,
but that's only partly true as accurate shot placement, depth of penetration and destroying critical organs,
and a knowledge of the animals anatomy is FAR more critical
you'll have a hard time finding something faster more accurate or more lethal for use in the thick aspen and conifer than a browning BLR chambered in 450 marlin, loaded with 350-405 grain slugs that being said, most of the experienced elk hunters I've hunted with
for 5 plus decades started out with a dozen types of rifles yet now most older guys prefer the BLR in CALIBER 358 WIN , or a remington 7600 in caliber 35 whelen, we all started out reading magazines advising use of flat shooting bolt actions in 7mm and 300 mag calibers, over decades we found shots at elk at over 250 yards are very rare, and shorter lighter weight carbines that hit hard are ideal.
do you cast and hunt with bullets you made
how many guys use personally cast bullets from the custom bullet mold companys? back in the day, we could get LINOTYPE ingots fairly cheap, now that is not commonly available now I use cast bullets almost exclusively in my hunting revolvers and several 458 caliber rifles , because it both...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
tips on bullet casting alloys
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=bullet+casting+alloys&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=1d1fff8f1cbf7d1f32c97104f242ca86fef3983f http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
you don't need a super long range magnum, most game is shot at well under 250 yards, what you do need is to carry and practice with a gun you handle well, can practice with and become proficient in its use, this is made far easier if you handload.
I suggested he buy a BROWNING BLR in caliber 358 win-450 marlin like I own,
if he shops carefully he can most likely find one under $1100, new
as it much less expensive and more powerful, and ammos cheaper.
big bore lever actions are very effective but are marginally limited in range ,
most have projectile velocity limits under 2300 fps with bullets in the 250 grains -405 grains of high enough sectional density to penetrate well and consistently. at under 200 yards where 90% plus of games shot.
a 500 S&W in a rifle might sound impressive but its less powerful than a 450 marlin or 45/70
and much less than a 458 win or 458 lott,
a 358 win, 35 whelen,338 win mag, 340 wby or 375 H&H have the range and bullet weight to be very effective
out past 200 yards in skilled hands
ok, most of us can easily spend decades hunting and never come close to having any need for a similar rifle ,
that might be required to stop a bear charge at bayonet ranges, under conditions
used to save our lives where we become the prey rather than the hunter.
you calculate power or muzzle energy with the following formula
bullet mass x velocity x velocity /divided by 450240= ft lbs of energy
most experienced hunters suggest you try to stay over 4000 ft lbs in a stopping rifle,
and over 2500 ft lbs, in a decent elk cartridge at the minimum, but of course range matters
and limit shots to ranges where you can consistently and accurately place your shots.
(in a 4" circle) and you damn well better know the games anatomy and location of vital organs
that knowledge and your skill, may be required,\ to save you from being killed by some vengeful angry, animal.
as always consistent and accurate, shot placement is a required component in any hunting kill.
most choices are a compromise, more recoil generally slows your efficiency making a follow-up second or third shot.
and you might only get a single shot or at most two, at much closer ranges, so absolute dependability is critical.
reality is that most people rarely hunt any animal that might attack you ,with the desire and persistence to warrant/require the use of a "stopping rifle" here in America, but there are a few exceptions.
now if you hunt AFRICA or ALASKA and game like elephants brown bear, lions or cape buffalo,
your obviously going to have someone point out that the 458 win or 458 LOTT have a long standing record of being used successfully,
both throw a .458 diameter bullet, but the 458 win is generally loaded with a 510 grain weight at about 2100 fps while the 458 LOTT can boost velocity about 200-250 fps faster with the same projectile.
yeah, the 45/70 and 450 marlin can be loaded with a 400-450 grain projectile and both are well known and effective , but neither has the velocity to become a true stopping rifle. (but either ones devastating on elk inside 250 yards in skilled hand when properly loaded,
, those velocities in any of the 458 caliber rifles, might seem a bit slow compared to other more common hunting cartridges, most of us are more familiar with like a 308 win, 30/06 , 270 win, 6.5 Mauser, or 7mm mag, but keep in mind most of the more common hunting cartridges throw a much lighter weight 135 grain-180 grain bullet at maybe 2400-3000 fps.
these may be lethal on deer or elk, and if it takes 20-30 seconds to drop a deer after bullet impact it might not be a huge problem ,
but that time lag, might be marginal or could be critical, if your rifle is asked to stop, a charging brown bear,
fully intent on shredding your butt, instantly at spitting distances.
being chewed on by a pissed off bear for 30 seconds, before it bleeds out, could easily be lethal
producing a wound that will rapidly become fatal, or killing something vs stopping a determined charge ,
by extensively breaking larger bones and driving a projectile through several yards of muscle, destroying organs reliably require a bit more penetration, and you can't have the projectile turn into glitter on impact with a heavy shoulder bone or glancing off a skull, even once in a 100 shots, with a stopping rifle.
there's a second class, of rifles with a bit more velocity, the 375-416 class where the rifles trade off a bit of projectile weight for a bit more projectile velocity
the 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, 375 H&H and 378 WEATHERBY, these throw a 270-300 grain bullet at 2400-3000 fps,
you might, with careful selection and research ,get a very marginal reduction in recoil ,
and higher velocity, making the rifle better for a flatter trajectory, while still providing very respectable penetration.
related info
A Plus For The Use Of 45 Caliber Rifles For Hunting,
I was recently asked why I've stated use of a 45/70, 450 marlin and heavy bolt actions, like a 458 win or 458 LOTT rifles have any realistic use in north America, ? the basis of this question was that all the 458 caliber rifles have rather limited effective range, due to less than ideal flat...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
458 Win Mag vs 458 Lott: What You Know May Be Wrong
Looking for hard hitting, big bore dangerous game cartridge? Here’s what you need to know about the .458 Win Mag vs .458 Lott. The best one is the
thebiggamehuntingblog.com
.378 Weatherby Magnum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
.375 H&H Magnum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
.416 Remington Magnum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
there are larger bore lever actions that provide devastating power at closer ranges but none are STOPPING RIFLES,
but yeah they can be very effective at under 100 or so yards on larger game, especially like lions, bears elk etc.
these make excellent hunting rifles in skilled hands
.50 Alaskan - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
450 Marlin: Everything You Need To Know
Looking for the perfect big bore cartridge to use in your lever action rifle? Here’s what you need to know about the heavy hitting .450 Marlin.
thebiggamehuntingblog.com
450 Marlin vs 45-70 Government Ballistics Comparison | Sportsman's Warehouse
Ballistics and performance comparison between the 450 Marlin vs 45-70 Government cartridges.
www.sportsmans.com
btw
one of my close friend's used a ruger single shot 458 win with handloads ,
these lever action are not stopping rifles but have proven results on elk for decades
(as have several marlin 45/70 rifles used with 400 grain hard cart bullets)
and another used a browning BLR in caliber 450 marlin both have provided excellent results on ELK and DEER
we have used mostly 405 grain remington and speer bullets and 350 grain hornady bullets at 1900 fps (marlin 450)-2100 fps (458 win ruger)
tips on bullet casting alloys
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=bullet+casting+alloys&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=1d1fff8f1cbf7d1f32c97104f242ca86fef3983f http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
loaded with the correct alloy bullets (95% WW and 5% pure tin mixed by weight,
it easily shoots through most games vitales at ranges under 100 yards
as you get much better penetration in GAME,
a 405 grain hard cast zips through an elk and exits ,
even if larger bones are punched and broken in every case Ive seen.
keep in mind the heavier, 450-540 grain bullets from a 458 win or 458 lott penetrate even better
Last edited: