trouble shooting BRAKES (1)

[grumpyvette]

read thru these links and sub links

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/ ... eshoot.htm

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=3556&p=9442&hilit=fluid+brake#p9442

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... brake5.htm
BTW its ALWAYS a good idea to completely replace old brake fluid and NEVER mix old and new brake fluid if it can be avoided simply because old brake fluid can contain moisture and might not be compatible with the new brake fluid

some of the newer synthetic brake fluids are far less prone to absorb moisture and boil at much higher temps that the OEM brake fluids
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-6691 ... 65622.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-2 ... ,1386.html

BTW banjo fittings require a seal washer on both sides

If your not getting full functioning brakes your obviously not getting full caliper or slave cylinder movement on the rear drums or calipers, somethings busted, clogged or corroded, or your low on brake fluid or somethings out of adjustment or badly worn, locating the cause won,t be difficult if you attack the problem logically and understand how the systems designed to function, and how to dis-assemble and inspect and posiably replace defective or worn, components, as a start point Id strongly suggest bleeding the brakes on all four wheels and replacing all the brake fluid with new DOT 4 , get a couple quarts and
read the links
having a lift or at least 4 good jack stands , which make working on brakes far easier once the cars frame is supported and the wheels are easily accessed.(don,t forget the brake the lug nuts loose before raising the car off the ground if you don,t have a lift or air impact gun)

and a decent floor jack helps a great deal, knowing what your looking at and how to make adjustments helps and having a friend help is a huge plus.
BTW don,t forget to put ANTI-SEIZE on the lug threads before re-installing the lug nuts

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/ ... eshoot.htm

http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubles ... brakes.htm

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/ ... eshoot.htm

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars ... /index.htm

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pwrsteer.htm

http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/shoot.shtml

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 13448.html

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedinstock.shtml

http://home.att.net/~m.prendergast-alli ... AKCHRT.htm

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/fow72-234-223.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... brake5.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-07.htm

http://www.pjwauto.com/troubleshooting- ... lems.shtml

http://www.ehow.com/topic_3454_car-brak ... guide.html

http://www.fordf150.net/howto/brakerepair.php

http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_inf ... Brakes.pdf

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_wa ... disk.shtml

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/ ... eshoot.htm

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake07.pdf

http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubles ... brakes.htm

http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/shoot.shtml

http://home.att.net/~m.prendergast-alli ... AKCHRT.htm

http://www.americascarshow.com/Detail.a ... 4&mid=1638

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-07.htm

There are a few different systems for bleeding the brake system (2-person, 1-person vacuum, pressure, etc.). Which one of them would you consider the best and why? Do you have a preference?[/QUOTE]


on c4 corvettes
for caliper bleeding order Chilton manual says:

- 84-86 left rear,right rear-left front ,right front
- 87 right front ,right rear-left rear left front
- 88-91 right front,right rear-left rear,left front
- 92-96 right rear,left rear-right front,left front


read this
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 13448.html

http://www.aaawholesalecompany.com/bem-484410-pk.html
NOTICE THEY COME singly for about $8-$9 each or 12 to a carton and cost about $60 a dozen so get two to 6 buddies to split the cost
medical supplys can be useful bleeding brakes

"Ive only found one semi-fool proof way, and that's with two guys, doing the old...
check the fluid level, pump the brake pedal,several times,....., hold it,firmly to the pressure point f,...release the bleeder valve, on the wheel, let the pedal hit the floor,...close the bleeder valve, only then, let the pedal up, repeat, about 4 times than refill the master cylinder,repeat until you get clear new fluid and no air in the clear tubing, routine, on each wheel with a 1/4 diam section of 3 ft long clear plastic tube routing the old brake fluid into a large plastic container, all the time getting feed back on feel from the guy pumping the brakes who's also and making sure the brake fluid reservoir never gets low

So Grumpy, are you of the opinion that a single person bleeder is NOT the way to go? I like to work on my ride at 0-dark thirty in the middle of the night and my buddies hate it when I call and try to drag them out of bed at that hour.
(although I could probably call you... you don't seem like you would mind at all )

no, I probably would not mind at all, (I enjoy working on cars) but the wife might!
yes the brake bleed , suction tools can be used successfully, but its still not as good as having someone help and give constant verbal feed back as to pedal feel and master cylinder fluid levels in my opinion.

http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1124764.html

http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1133025.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92474


YES you can do a good job going either route, its just important to keep verifying the master cylinder stays full, if you suck it dry youll need to start over, BTW the brake fluid you use must match the application and don,t blend different types, example dot 5 brake fluid seldom blends with DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid, and water in any brake fluid screws up brakes eventually

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

Ceramic brake pads tend to wear brake rotors at a higher rate then semi metalic pads will, and they can generate more heat,so check the condition and thickness of the rotors , and the grease in the axle bearings when you do a brake job.

http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Autom ... 34-202.htm

http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Autom ... 34-222.htm

btw your SHOP MANUAL will have the correct disc brake rotor thickness range and if they wear below the minimum they are very prone to cracking, chattering and other problems under hard use, your CAR AND YOUR BUTTS worth more to most people than replacement rotors cost don,t get silly , if they need replacing REPLACE THEM
yes IM well aware theres a tool designed for compressing brake calipers
but in many cases this works just fine

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-ind ... 39610.html

http://www.ehow.com/about_5519863_ceram ... -pads.html


http://autorepair.about.com/od/fixityou ... eplace.htm

http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/brakes.html

http://www.freeautomechanic.com/brakes.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf110322.htm

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

interesting info

http://www.hunter.com/pub/undercar/2623T/index.htm

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technica ... /Fluid.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

http://www.familycar.com/brakes.htm

http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

a quart of brake fluid will usually do the job, just be sure the old fluids drained as it tends to collect moisture over time, moisture that can turn to steam and destroy the braking ability of the car under some conditions if its in the fluid in significant amounts

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorc ... fluid.html
(yes most of the info below ,it applies to cars, also)

This topic has always been a hot one, D.O.T. 3 brake fluid versus D.O.T. 4, versus D.O.T. 5. Which is best? Isn't D.O.T. 5 the hot set-up? Why are there different kinds to begin with, and what are the pros and cons of each? Let's explore all that, and hopefully in the process eliminate the hype and misinformation that often surrounds this subject.

Air? From Where?
Let's begin at the beginning. A brake system is not a sealed system. A physics principle known as Boyle's Law in a round-about way establishes that a fluid cannot leave a container unless air can follow it. If the vent in your gas tank plugs up, for example, fuel will eventually stop flowing. Similarly, a brake system is, like a fuel tank, vented to atmosphere, usually at its highest point, the reservoir. (Ever notice that little notch?) Thus a brake system has continuous access to air.

The Problem with Moisture
But that means it also has continuous access to moisture, for air naturally has moisture in it, to varying degrees. All brake systems have moisture in them, all the time, and this is unavoidable. There are two inherent difficulties with this that brake system designers must contend with. First, as moisture increases in the brake fluid, it tends to collect around the system's moving parts, particularly the pistons. If this moisture is allowed to increase, the pistons and surrounding areas will begin corroding and brake function will be seriously impaired. Corrosion is a big deal in brake systems, as anyone who has restored a vintage vehicle will attest. Nasty.

The other problem with this continuous exposure to moisture is that moisture makes the brake fluid more compressible. You don't want any compressibility in a brake system. For every millimeter that the lever or pedal moves, you expect a proportionate movement of the brake pads against the disc. If you don't have that, you have an unreliable and dangerous brake system. Unfortunately, brake fluid becomes more compressible as it increases in water content. Water contains hydrogen, and in response to heat cycles the brake fluid soon has air mixed into it as well as moisture.

Consumer-Friendly Brake Fluid
Brake system designers consider these issues thoroughly. To reduce the effect of both corrosion and compressibility, virtually all vehicle manufacturers use and specify a kind of brake fluid that is designed to not only accept significant amounts of moisture, but even to neutralize it by dispersing this moisture evenly throughout the system, thus preventing its concentration in any one area. It's actually kind of amazing what brake fluid does, when you think about it.

What Does the D.O.T. Rating Mean?
Eventually, however, because of this designed-in moisture management, the fluid gets overloaded and must be replaced. So important is this fluid replacement point that vehicle manufacturers have traditionally called for a maximum of a two year period of use of the fluid. By that time, the fluid will have started to turn golden, then light brown, indicating that it has absorbed progressively more moisture. Eventually, if left unchanged beyond the recommended service interval, the fluid will become dark brown, indicating high amounts of water absorption and thus badly contaminated fluid.

The importance of monitoring brake fluid's water content is further demonstrated by the fact that in the U.S., a brake fluid's most important classification is determined by the Department of Transportation, an arm of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The D.O.T.'s rating communicates how contaminated with water the fluid can be and still work properly. In essence, how consumer-friendly it is. This is where the numbers 3, 4, and 5 actually come from. The D.O.T.'s rating focuses on the compressibility issue, and measures a brake fluid's ability to resist boiling into a very compressible gas even when new. This of course reflects upon its compressibility over time as well, after it has aborbed moisture and become incrementally more compressible. This is the fluid's so-called boiling point, which for most brake fluids centers around nearly 500 degrees Fahrenheit when new, and rapidly decreases with water content.

Incidentally, D.O.T. 3 brake fluid is for all practical purposes obsolete. D.O.T. 4, a rating that came about in response to the emergence of sintered metal brake pads during the early 1980s, has replaced it, being still a glycol fluid but with a slightly higher boiling point. Glycol brake fluid containers now are labeled "D.O.T. 3/4," presumably to eliminate confusion, as the two fluids are nearly the same. However, this seems to have merely raised more questions in most people's minds. The short of it is, if using purely organic (almost exclusively aftermarket, and usually, racing) brake pads, D.O.T. 3 will suffice. Otherwise, use D.O.T. 4.

Glycol Brake Fluids
Virtually all vehicle manufacturers specify one kind of brake fluid, whose base is alcohol. As we have already explored, this eminently ubiquitous alcohol (actually glycol) brake fluid is suited to the realities of vehicle ownership. It neutralizes moisture, turns color in direct proportion to moisture content, disperses moisture so that it doesn't concentrate, and resists heat related degradation that leads eventually to increased compressibility. Glycol brake fluid is clearly extremely forgiving, maintenance-wise. In fact, vehicle manufacturers use it because they are quite aware that the average owner will never change his brake fluid, let alone do so at the recommended maximum two-year intervals!

There are disadvantages to glycol brake fluid however. For one thing, the very attribute that enables it to accept moisture actually causes it to attract moisture, as any alcohol product will. For this reason, brake fluid suppliers recommend that only small amounts be kept on hand, and that a tight seal be kept on any unused fluid. (In the old days, it used to be available only in metal cans.) Another disadvantage, and a significant one, is that glycol fluid is chemically caustic, meaning that it damages other materials. It effortlessly removes paint and does strange things to plastic. (Even after it is wiped off, glycol fluid causes catalytic embrittlement, a chemical reaction on the molecular level that leads quickly to deep cracks. The ABS plastic used in motorcycle bodywork is especially susceptible.)

Silicone Brake Fluids
In years past, all brake fluids were glycol. Then D.O.T. 5, a silicone fluid having a higher temperature rating, emerged, initially to meet the higher boiling point requirements of racing use. (Race car brake systems include oil-cooler-like heat exchangers and ceramic pads.) Silicone fluid was able to withstand the most heat of any brake fluid, so it earned a reputation as a racing brake fluid. However, silicone brake fluid has properties very different from glycol fluid, and has its own pros and cons. On the advantage side, silicone fluid will not harm paint or plastic, and does not aggressively attract additional moisture as glycol fluid does. On the disadvantage side however, silicone fluid aerates easily. Harley-Davison, one of the sole current OEM users of silicone fluid, warns buyers to let the fluid sit at least an hour before using it. The trip home in the saddlebag is enough to aerate silicone brake fluid until it looks like a freshly poured soft drink. Silicone fluid is also slightly more compressible than glycol fluid, does not change color to tip the user to its moisture content, and worst of all, neither accepts or disperses moisture, making systems using it more corrosion prone, and requiring much more frequent fluid changes. Silicone brake fluid also lacks glycol fluid's naturally occuring lubricity, making it incompatible with the mechanical valving in some antilock braking systems.

A third brake fluid category could be included, if we were to consider bicycles. Their hydraulic brake systems use mineral oil, that is, baby oil. About the same consistency as glycol fluid, mineral oil is still not the best thing around paint, but in most other respects it is fairly non-corrosive. Like silicone fluid however, it does not deal well with moisture.

Which is Best?
As you may have noticed by now, instead of looking at brake fluid as D.O.T. 3/4 versus D.O.T. 5, we should see the issue as glycol versus silicone. This represents the larger division of type, and comparing D.O.T. ratings just isn't significant, especially since D.O.T. 5 fluids are now available in glycol formulation. Glycol fluids have improved until they now meet D.O.T. 5 standards. D.O.T. 5.1 for example, is a glycol fluid designed for certain ABS systems having mechanically cycling proportion valves. So now we have D.O.T. 3, 4, 5, and 5.1, with all but the 5 designation being glycol, while the 5 is silicone.

The real way to compare brake fluids is by deciding what is important to you. Is silicone fluid's safety around paint and plastic more important than yearly changes and a softer action? Its higher boiling point, the reason for its development and at one time its strong suit, is now academic, since D.O.T. 5 glycol (5.1) fluids are now widely available. Glycol fluid therefore is, for most of us, the better brake fluid, and the best just may be the 5.1, if the highest boiling point, which is really a moisture tolerance measurement, matters.

On the practical side, beware that glycol and silicone brake fluids are hugely incompatible with each other. Mixing even small amounts will create a sludge that looks amazingly like Italian salad dressing and is about as effective as a brake fluid -- meaning, not. Of further consideration is that, in some cases, the hardware designed for one fluid will not accept the other. Brake caliper and master cylinder seals, hoses, and other parts won't always work correctly when the type of fluid is changed.

Summary
Over the years, the debate has continued as to which is the best fluid. Racers and custom builders have traditionally promoted silicone fluid, and many street riders have assumed this meant it was good for them also. However, silicone is the highest-maintenence of all brake fluids, one that demands frequent attention. While this is acceptable in a race setting, it is less so in everyday commuting. The plain fact remains that vehicle manufacturers use glycol fluid because, with its being designed for the average consumer, it poses the least liability to them. In reality, the answer to the usage question is simple -- the brake fluid type the manufacturer recommends is the best. In most cases this will be the glycol fluid, the one that is designed to meet all of your brake system's demands and do so with very little fuss.


Mike Nixon

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

brake fluid info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_br ... d_1a.shtml

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorc ... fluid.html

http://www.familycar.com/brakes.htm

http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/rac ... _fluid.htm

http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_1846_check-brake-fluid.html

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technica ... /Fluid.htm

http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/Brake_Fluid2.htm

http://www.shotimes.com/SHO3brakefluid.html

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/ic10422.htm

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars ... /overview/

http://lmch.epfl.ch/LMCH96/courstribo/article4.pdf



Originally Posted by Keith Reinhardt
Although first introduced as far back as 1985 on some new vehicles, mass after-market applications for ceramic-based disc brake pads are just now becoming widely available. Approximately 33 percent of all new vehicles, domestic and foreign combined, now have ceramic-based disc brake pads. The newest generation of ceramic brake lining compounds contain no chopped steel fibers or steel wool as found in earlier semi-metallic linings, but instead substitute ceramic compounds and copper fibers. These changes provide modern ceramic-based lining materials the capability of handling today's high brake temperatures with less heat fade, faster recovery time, and less wear on both the pads and rotors.'

Of even more value to brake repair facilities is the ability of ceramic lining compounds to significantly reduce annoying brake noise or squeal, which is the No. 1 consumer complaint relating to brake service. Ceramic compounds dampen noise and move brake pad vibrations to a frequency outside of our human hearing range, 20 Hz through 20,000 Hz. As with earlier disc brake pad designs, some ceramic pad applications may also incorporate other noise-reducing features such as chamfers, slots and insulator shims. One leading after-market manufacturer has gone as far as naming its line of ceramic brake pads "Quiet Stop."

Another positive characteristic associated with ceramic brake lining materials is the absence of visible brake dust, a feature that any vehicle owner with stylish wheels will appreciate. All brake materials, ceramic included, will produce some brake dust. Earlier semi-metallic and organic brake compounds left a brownish black dust on wheels. In comparison, ceramic compounds produce a light-colored dust that is much less noticeable and does not attach itself to wheels.

Although an increase in product cost will more than likely be associated with ceramic-based brake linings, their benefits may be worthwhile for consumers. Based on their own durability tests, lining manufacturers say these compounds will outlast most other premium pad materials by a considerable margin. However, after-market brake pads with ceramic materials should only be used on those applications where the OEM specified a similar formula.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerstop.com
Ceramic vs Metallic Pads

There are many rumors about ceramic pads causing excessive abrasive wear on the rotors or not holding up at high temperature. I conducted tests on 10 different metallic and ceramic pads to compare performance and wear characteristics.

The products included Hawk, Performance Friction, Raybestos, Power Stop, EBC, Akebono, Morse, and a widely used economy pad from China. There were five ceramic and 5 metallic pads. All data was performed using the test protocol in ISO NWI 2560 on a Chevy Tahoe front axle corner. The tests were run by Link Testing in Detroit. This is an aggressive test that pushes the pad to more than 1200 Fahrenheit, and conducts high speed stops, fade snubs and panic stops. One popular ceramic name brand pad did not make it through the test as it was completely consumed before the test ended. Therefore, I was only able to compare four ceramic and five metallic pads.

I measured and recorded the following:
. Rotor wear
. Pad wear
. Green friction coefficient (mu) - before the burnish or cure on the vehicle
. Fade snub friction coefficient (mu) - 15 consecutive stops without cooling
. Hot stop friction coefficient (mu) - above 1100 Fahrenheit
. Speed sensitivity - the percent change in mu at 160 kph vs 80 kph
. Pre-fade pedal pressure sensitivity - % change in mu
. Post fade pedal pressure sensitivity - % change in mu

Background:
About 25 years ago, we were using asbestos as the binding fiber for the friction compound. It was the ideal product to resist high temperature, and the barbs along the fiber captured various elements and contained it in a nice homogeneous mix. When asbestos was phased out in the late 80's and early 90's, compounders had to find a good substitution for asbestos such as iron fibers, chopped kevlar or fiberglass. Development focused on a non-asbestos organic variety and a metallic type pad. That is, until Akebono developed the first ceramic pad. It was a giant leap in brake formulations because it provided outstanding noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) properties with stable mu over a wide temperature range. A true ceramic pad contains no ferrous metal, so there is no metal to metal contact between the pad and the rotor. However, the SAE has no definition of a ceramic pad to specify minimum contents of various elements. So a manufacturer could take a low metallic pad, sprinkle some ceramic stuff in the mix and call it ceramic. This has led to a wide variation in brake performance from brand to brand.
Are ceramic pads bad for your rotor?
Friction works primarily with two mechanisms: 1) abrasion and 2) adherence. Abrasive friction consumes the pad and/or the rotor with a cutting action. Adherent friction is when the pad material is deposited on the rotor, and a friction force is produced from the breaking of chemical bonds as material in this deposition layer is sheared. Abrasive pads will cause higher rotor wear (normally less than .002") and decrease rotor mass. Adherent type pads can actually increase rotor mass. At higher temperatures, adherent friction is the primary mode of producing a friction force.

In analyzing the test results, I found no correlation to make a general claim that ceramic pads are hard on rotors. In fact, it is clear that some metallic pads are more abrasive than some ceramic pads. The pads that were easiest on rotors were Akebono ceramic, Power Stop Z26 metallic and Performance Friction metallic.
Do metallic pads perform better than ceramic?
Under cold conditions, brake torque was not significantly different between ceramic and metallic pads. What I find interesting is what happens as temperature gets up to 1000 degrees. This is where metallic pads have the edge. Ceramic mu tends to drop at extreme conditions.
In summary, the general statement that all ceramic pads are hard on the rotor is false. There are advantages to ceramic pads in terms of uniform pedal pressure characteristics, low noise and low dust. Ceramic pads are a great street compound and can give better performance than some metallic pads. The advantage of metallic pads is improved high temperature performance. I recommend metallic pads for extreme performance such as hauling loads, track racing, towing trucks or traveling in mountains. Our Z36 series has super stopping power even at extreme temperatures. Power Stop offers Evolution ceramic with a nice compromise between pad bite and stability. Of all the products tested, Power Stop Evolution operates close to Akebono (the OE pad) in performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirerack
Why Ceramic Brake Pads?

We want our vehicle's brake system to offer smooth, quiet braking capabilities under a wide range of temperature and road conditions. We don't want brake-generated noise and dust annoying us during our daily driving.

To accommodate this, brake friction materials have evolved significantly over the years. They've gone from asbestos to organic to semi-metallic formulations. Each of these materials has proven to have advantages and disadvantages regarding environmental friendliness, wear, noise and stopping capability.

Asbestos pads caused health issues and organic compounds can't always meet a wide range of braking requirements. Unfortunately the steel strands used in semi-metallic pads to provide strength and conduct heat away from rotors also generate noise and are abrasive enough to increase rotor wear.

Since they were first used on a few original equipment applications in 1985, friction materials that contain ceramic formulations have become recognized for their desirable blend of traits. These pads use ceramic compounds and copper fibers in place of the semi-metallic pad's steel fibers. This allows the ceramic pads to handle high brake temperatures with less heat fade, provide faster recovery after the stop, and generate less dust and wear on both the pads and rotors. And from a comfort standpoint, ceramic compounds provide much quieter braking because the ceramic compound helps dampen noise by generating a frequency beyond the human hearing range.

Another characteristic that makes ceramic materials attractive is the absence of noticeable dust. All brake pads produce dust as they wear. The ingredients in ceramic compounds produce a light colored dust that is much less noticeable and less likely to stick to the wheels. Consequently, wheels and tires maintain a cleaner appearance longer.

Ceramic pads meet or exceed all original equipment standards for durability, stopping distance and noise. According to durability tests, ceramic compounds extend brake life compared to most other semi-metallic and organic materials and outlast other premium pad materials by a significant margin - with no sacrifice in noise control, pad life or braking performance.

This is quite an improvement over organic and semi-metallic brake materials that typically sacrifice pad life to reduce noise, or vice versa.

 

[bob]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

hers a good example of a problem (I stole this from GRUMPY off a different site, Im sure he won,t mind)

ok, so popped my brake master yesterday (that's what its called right?) and noticed the levels were wierd as well as the fluid being a funny color...

what should i do?
add more fluid?
now I recently found these little clear canisters deals with taps for clear plastic hose that when used with a vacuum pump gun make bleeding the air,out of a hydraulic clutch or brake lines far easier and far less messy, and it allows you to do it effectively by your self if you have enough plastic hose, you simply crack the bleed valve, on the brake caliper or clutch slave cylinder, then slip a clear plastic hose that fits tightly on the bleed valve nipple
(usually 1/4" or 5/16" plastic hose)between the brake slave cylinder or calipers and route one end to the canister, route a second plastic tube to your vacuum gun and pour brake fluid into the master cylinder while pumping the gun, the old fluid collects in the canister.
the great thing here is that its use it makes it a one man job and you can use longer plastic hose so you can stand next too the master cylinder to make sure its never going low on fluid, as you keep it topped off, while you pump out the old brake or hydraulic fluid

http://www.aaawholesalecompany.com/bem-484410-pk.html
NOTICE THEY COME 12 too a carton and cost about $40 a dozen so get two buddies to split the cost, and youll each get 3-4

http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-va ... 39522.html

http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvpo.asp#

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-do-you-inspect-the-brakes-condition.15187/

http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvp.asp

read this
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 13448.html

marv02 POSTED THIS INFO

Get your self a rubber hose about 1.5 foot long that fits tight over the Brake beeders on the wheel caliper put the other end into the 2 litter dont forget to put some brake fuild into the botttle also crack open the bleeders open not full open but enuoght so the fuild will flow out when pushing down on the brake pedal.

Do one brake at a time.

The reason you are puttting some Brake fuild into the 2 liter and sumerge the rubber hose into it so when you cycle the brake pedal you will not suck air back into the brake system when you release the pedal.

Keep on cycling the brake pedal untill the air is gone start from the farthet to the closes brake as in rear right then rear left then front right then front left.

Make sure you shut the bleeder off when you done with each brake at a time.

Also you need to keep a eye on the MC to make sure you dont run it dry bleeding the brakes this way.

I normaly go though at least almost a full bottle + on the first wheel it has a long way to go to get rid of the air the next rear wheel 1/4 bottle or so the first front 1/2 a bottle next front 1/4 bottle.

Brake fluid is cheep.

You might not need so much fuild but I like to make sure I get all the air out.

This also works for replacing old nasty Brake fluid for freash Brake fuild.

This way beats yelling at someone else open close open close or pedal up pedal down"

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: trouble shooting BRAKES

you've got moisture in the rear master cylinder reservoir fluid that's caused rust, the rear fluid needs to be drained/bled, and replaced with fresh fluid, and might need replacement, the slave cylinders need to be closely inspected, the front master cylinder reservoir, is low so obviously you've got a leak, you'll need to inspect all the connections and the slave cylinders and replace & clean whatever is defective, and if the brake pads, or calipers got soaked , in brake fluid they should be replaced, cleaned or repaired, ID start with a visual inspection, and ID replace all four sets of brake pads and replace the brake fluid and replace the defective slave cylinder(s) or caliper(s) if it was my car
and yes a SHOP MANUALS GOING TO BE HELPFUL

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0702_ ... index.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=lX53dn ... t&resnum=4

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-do-you-inspect-the-brakes-condition.15187/

http://www.ehow.com/how_4768504_disc-br ... amaro.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=1Ti3kH ... t&resnum=9

If your inspecting the brake lines your aware theres hard steel lines and flex hydraulic lines, maintenance replacement, is not on any set schedule
it depends mostly on the conditions they are run under and if you get contaminants in the brake fluid, or oil on the rubber lines, a visual inspection should give you a good idea, if the fluid is clean, theres no water in the brake fluid and the flex hydraulic lines look un-cracked or worn, and theres no indication of seepage, they should be ok for at least 10-15 years under normal street driving conditions , if the brake lines, are to be used on a race car like condition Id sure inspect them closely every time I changed the pads, but its a very good idea to replace ALL the flexible brake lines if one shows indications of age or wear, or rust in the interior of the steel fittings the brake fluid flows thru.
your local hydraulic supply shop can usually custom build far better quality flex lines than your car came with if you bring them the old stock lines as a pattern, to measure and select the fittings from.

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mo ... Lines.aspx

http://www.ehow.com/how_2295132_replace ... lines.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_2295132_replace ... lines.html

http://www.redliners.net/howtos/changin ... _lines.htm

http://www.fedhillusa.com/

http://video.google.com/videosearch?oe= ... BUQqwQwAA#

http://video.google.com/videosearch?oe= ... BUQqwQwAA#

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