Was about to order parts and found a couple of weird comments
First this guy broke three 383 stroker blocks doing some dyno test
Second on the summit site this comment about restricting the stroker 880 block to 500hp
If this is all correct and the stroker 880 block is a weak setup as a 383 then my goals have shifted
and I would build a fresh 350 and do a 383 build later with a dart block when i have more funds.
Cheers
10243880...350...95-00...2 or 4...Vortec truck, Gen.I crate motors and "ZZ4", roller cam, one piece rear seal
most of chevys SMALL BLOCK blocks are factory rated for under 400 hp from the factory,
yeah we all know a few guys that have built 500 hp engines with the blocks,
yes you can build a 500hp sbc, but other components can and do fail, detonation,
over heating and loss of valve train stability/control, or rotating assembly lubrication,
all tend to happen regularly ,unless a good deal of thought is put into the build
AND stress is cumulative, the factory block casting is rather thin and flex able,
running an engine at the 500 hp plus range a few times on a dyno is totally different than flogging it on a race car,
if your intention is to build serious hp, buy a CHEVY BOWTIE RACE OR a DART BLOCK designed to do that,
ID also point out that many guys who build a 383 on a factory 350 block, have a tendency to go a bit deeper on the block clearance grinding than the block casting was designed to handle safely, one more reason to go with a DART BBC ENGINE if over 600 hp is the goal
personally I know several guys who built SBC engines that used nitrous and made well in excess of 500 hp, but I also know many of those engines lasted less than a year or two after the guys started beating the engines rather regularly at the track, the best advice I can give, is either get a CHEVY BOWTIE RACE OR a DART BLOCK designed to do that or even better BUILD A SERIOUS BBC ON A DART BLOCK, that will allow you to easily reach well over 700-900 hp without durability issues, related to block stress splitting the engine casting don't ignore the rotating assembly either , FORGED BALANCED components, and a properly designed lube and cooling system are required for max durability its rather common for a 383 chevy block to have bore wall thickness well under 1/8th in in places, a dart factory BBC , designed for race use, and if you select the correct part number, has a bore wall over 3/8" with a 4.5" bore and much thicker main cap support and a much better high nickle casting alloy. keep in mind its very common to be forced to spend $1000-$1700 on block and rotating assembly machine work, alone, and you could easily spend $5k-6K on the short block, even if you use an OEM block, and all that's money you piss away, if the block cracks at 6500 rpm, and your forced to replace the whole short block,
its much smarter to spend a bit more up front on a quality block and forged rotating assembly
I picked up a Vortec 8.0 long block as a new toy to build. There doesn’t seem to be much out there on it. I plan on tearing it down this weekend, but I’m hoping someone could enlighten me a bit if they know more about it. Seems like a Chevy Performance hybrid of a gen 6/7 BBC set to run on gas or alternative fuels in vocational or industrial applications.
What I do know:
Tall deck gen 6 roller block
488ci (std bore 496)
Iron ‘fast burn’ heads, adjustable valvetrain
Set up for a 4x/58x cam/crank signal and coil packs or can be used with a carb if I swap in a cam with a fuel...
you really should read these links for a lot more USEFUL info, on block pre prep use the best block you can afford, the better aftermarket blocks are faR STRONGER THAN THE oem BLOCKS IN ALMOST ALL CASES one of the least discussed & acknowledged, and yet more common reasons engines fail , is...
HOW FAR CAN YOU BORE A BLOCK? before you begin to have a engine block bored more than about .030 over size its a good idea to have the blocks bore walls sonic tested Have your machinist sonic check the block before you bore it. calculate the remaining bore wall thickness, and if its not thick...
Generation Gap: Big-Block Chevy OE And Aftermarket Block Variants By GREG ACOSTA AUGUST 07, 2018 https://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/some-basic-bbc-math-to-get-you-thinking-about-your-potential-dream-bbc-combos.14607/#post-96895 When it comes to big-block engines, there...
If you look at the Chevy block on page 2, this is remarkably close to my experience. I bored a 350 in² SBC .060", which is .030" on a side. My thinnest wall was .064" on cylinder #4. If the Chevy block in the Hot Rod (Page 2) article was bored .060" over, it's thinnest cylinder would be...
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ology.aspx Looking For Leakers: Crack Detection Technology SUMMIT SELLS G.M. BLOCKS you can use to build a 383 for $700 plus shipping , but ID suggest limiting power to about 500 hp with these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150100...
grumpy I have read several threads on this and other sites that strongly suggest the original production Chevy small block 4 bolt main cap block, is not the best choice for building a decent performance engine, due to the thin casting and tendency to have the main caps shift or squirm under...
I finished grinding my block for 383 stroker assembly a couple of weeks ago. I found a tip to help cut down on metal dust particles. Take a magnet any type, and put it in a zip lock bag, then place the bag as close as you can to the area your grinding. I put mine in the direction of the flow...
I recently had a discussion with one of the local guys concerning what heads and rotating assembly he should buy now that he recently purchased a tall deck (10.2") big block chevy block. he has a perfectly good 427 forged crank (3.76" stroke) but hes seriously thinking of buying a (4.25" stroke)...
I POSTED THIS BEFORE, when shopping for a rotating assembly , it pays too carefully compare features, read the fine print carefully ,and do some careful pre-purchase research. price is NOT the most important consideration, value per dollar spent, quality and durability would be far higher on my...
youll generally find that 4000 FPM (FEET PER MINUTE)of piston speed with stock parts or 4500fpm with VERY good quality forged parts is the reasonable limit on the lower end ROTATING ASSEMBLY stress, if you don,t think selecting high quality components and correctly assembling them is...
Grumpy, I have a guy that has a BBC short block, for sale, he says is a 454 with a .060 over bore, what is the displacement? https://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/using-the-charts-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-50173 youll obviously need precision measuring tools...
Many thanks.....ok i see the block does have more limitations than I thought.....
But while Im here can you tell me the difference between these to scat cranks I was researching for the Dart block build
SC935037506000L vs SC935037505700L
you really should read these links for a lot more USEFUL info, on block pre prep use the best block you can afford, the better aftermarket blocks are faR STRONGER THAN THE oem BLOCKS IN ALMOST ALL CASES one of the least discussed & acknowledged, and yet more common reasons engines fail , is...
I finished grinding my block for 383 stroker assembly a couple of weeks ago. I found a tip to help cut down on metal dust particles. Take a magnet any type, and put it in a zip lock bag, then place the bag as close as you can to the area your grinding. I put mine in the direction of the flow...
HOW FAR CAN YOU BORE A BLOCK? before you begin to have a engine block bored more than about .030 over size its a good idea to have the blocks bore walls sonic tested Have your machinist sonic check the block before you bore it. calculate the remaining bore wall thickness, and if its not thick...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
keep in mind the SUB LINKS generally contain the vast majority of the useful info, ignore reading those and your ignoring most of the info youll need
" HEY GRUMPYVETTE? I picked up a tall deck,Chevy big block 427, block, at a yard sale and a friend donated a set of 454 .060 pistons Ive got several intakes for big block engines ,both oval and rectangular port, styles, whats it going to take to build a 496 stroker from these components?" it...
as too costs involved here's one SBC 383 builds partial cost list, which may help you remember some of the costs your more than likely over looking the fact is this engine building remains mostly well understood and known science, a teachable skill, (for anyone willing to learn what works with a...
I just bought a set of used Carrillos with 7/16 Carr bolts. Those should be as good as you can buy. For $264 I just didn't want to pass on that. New ones are $2100+. I'll have them inspected when they arrive, install new bushings, have them resized if necessary and I think that I should be...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKzvcHq7rBQ Chevy V8 bore & stroke chart Chevy V8 Crankshaft Journal Sizes Here's a list of Chevy V-8 crankshaft journal sizes. All journal sizes are given in "STANDARD" sizes. Your crankshaft may have been cut down in size previously by a machine shop. Make...
I dont understand why you need a 6 crank to go with a 6 inch rod, what does the crank have that
is different between the two ....... mains and rod journals are the same on both cranks ?
Both the specs are the same on this website
the cranks counter weights are different designs and weights
the longer rod too stroke ratio changes the rotational harmonics making the crank assembly,
slightly more difficult to balance unless the counter weights are matched to the longer rods
yes you could use either crank with either length rods, but you'll pay significantly more to have the crank assembly balanced if you do.
and if you use the 6" crank with the 5.7" rods you may require some major mods to the piston skirts for counter weight clearance.
a 6" crank may have larger weights and those may hit the pistons with a 5.7 rod.
keep in mind is that rods typically have a side that rides against its matched companion and a side thats BEVELED for clearance on the crank journals radias and the piston pin location in the pistons used and the piston skirt to crank counterweight clearance will be different on most cranks
Been MIA for way too long... Back to the process of building a new SBC bullet and wanted to confirm something about balancing connecting rods. My memory from prior engine builds is that the big end weight plus small end weight almost never adds up to the total rod weight, and this number is...
600hp sbc gen 1 expensive if you want to do it on pump gas and NA. Go look at my thread parts add up quick. If it was me and had the money all at once would buy a crate engine drop it in and enjoy the car. My car was last on the road 2016. Be realistic if it is a street car 500hp is really plenty and fun to drive the 355 that was in it before with a semi rowdy well picked cam and afr heads made plenty of power. And fun on the street and destroyed allot of cars. The money I put into a 600hp goal is allot. You may have more money in your valvetrain then some guys have in their engine. I am at $2650 of parts in just rockers and liters. Add the cam another $650 we are at $3300 now. Figuring push rods are another $200. That doesn't include lower end parts and machine work. or induction and exhaust. You need bigger headers then the common 1 5/8" and since they are concentrated on the ls more hope they make a set that fit your heads which will more then likely be angle plugged to fit your goals. Lemons are $1750 non coated. Even super comps are $900. Oiling also. Adds up quick.
when you calculate all the parts required to build a reliable 500hp-600hp SBC , then calculate the cost of building a similar power level in a BBC that in many cases can be built with more easily sourced, (like a stock 454 BBC vs a expensively modified 406 SBC)or even modified stock BBC components, you'll rapidly see why Id suggest building a BBC
and yeah I know, we all seem to be looking for that extra 50-150hp ,
no mater at what power level we find we have currently available
the main advantage of the BBC is the 427- 454 block and lower rotating assembly may need LESS or no modification
to reliably produce 500hp, and even the stock/ ported factory cylinder heads generally allow you to exceed 500 hp.
think motor homes and trucks when looking for engine cores
Just got a low mileage 95 gen V 454. plan to put in a 72 El Camino with T400 3:23 posi would like to upgrade power keeping short block. how much power can be made with this and what is the best method. I understand the p-nut port heads have limitations, as far as flow rates and valve lift...
heres more bbc info, but don,t let the guys make you think only oval port heads work well! it totally depends on your combo,s rpm range,displacement,gearing,weight,cam timeing,etc read the links and sub links below a day or so spent doing reading and research, (reading links and threads) will...
HOW to find a decent machine shop THATS SIMPLE, IN CONCEPT (but can be a P.I.T.A. in some locals) GO TO THE LOCAL DRAG STRIP with a PAD and pen,ask several obviously experienced race car owners,about the machine shops they avoid and those they recommend I don,t know about all areas but here in...
PEANUT PORT HEADS WITH RECTANGLE PORT GASKET ABOVE 346236 1975-87 454 Open 113cc .PEANUT SLIGHTLY LARGER, COMMON EARLY OVAL PORT HEADS WITH RECTANGLE PORT GASKET BELOW polishing and smoothing these combustion chambers,surfaces, removing the sharp ridges etc, has shown noticeable benefits in...
According to the book, Chevrolet Big Block V-8 Interchange Manual, by Tom Currao The #346236 peanut port head shows 225cc intake port volume, and 113cc combustion chamber volume .... THESE LINKS AND THE SUB-LINKS THEY CONTAIN HAVE HUNDREDS OF TIMES MORE ADDED
If you intend to use any other cam than the stock hydraulic cam that came in a MARK V or MARK VI (gen 5 or gen 6 BIG BLOCK CHEVY) you'll most likely want to install one with more lift or duration to increase performance, that means you'll most likely need to upgrade the valve train to an...
@Strictly Attitude sorry about the miss leading video , my goal was only 450 ish hp as we have a drag class over here that you cant run faster than
11 seconds and my pickup will be about 3300lb (1500kg) so was hoping that would get me mid 11's.
yes the price of parts in New Zealand is crazy just a roller cam is nearly double what you pay in the states.....
@ Grumpy I like the sound of more torque from a BBC but those engines are hard to get here even 350 runners and 10 times
the price from when i was a teen growing up with them.....
450ish hp is a pretty easy to obtain goal from a sbc or bbc. A sbc a set of AFR 195 heads and a decent cam. Does not have to be that radical just right for the engine. Edebrock airgap rpm. 650 carb will get you there. Big block is not my specialty but guessing it wouldn't take much as their is no replacement for displacement.
First I am glad I was NOT building for over 400HP and around 350FP Torque for my van motor and I am not building for over 5K RPMs.
I have NO idea what problems I might see if I had been going for such an engine. All my engine building ideas were for a good street working engine.
So my low RPM low HP & Torque 383 is most likely to last.
SO my question and response is:
Five years ago as I was looking into upgrading my 350 to a 383 mainly for low RPM torque I was seeing a lot of 383 crank shaft failures on the few engine building sites.
As well of MANY flat tappet cam failures, ones that flatten before being run for the first 20 minutes break in.
What I was seeing was how everyone, even the biggest, greatest Crank and cam makers were having stock made in China.
So I am wondering if that is still happening nowadays??
As my 350 was already prepaired for my sat of KB D Shaped pistons and was all set to assemble I wanted to not have to start all over again so I wanted to run a 383 crank that would run the stock sized 400 Rods so I could keep my pistons and perp.
First I could not find aftermarket crank that would allow the stock 400 rods, (or 400 size) and then I read of all these failures, and felt in my case a turned good old seasoned 400 crank and rods were the best choose for me, and I went old school.
Turned out it got almost completely redone by my current machine shop when the bearing clearance was off and I took it into them to fix that problem, so they went full out with only the block, rods, pistons used, all else was redone so gone were my rings, bearings, seals, cam bearings and cylinders honed, (again) Block line bored.
Also my gapless 2nd ring was lost as well, BUT reading up on them I see it was not as good an idea I was thinking they are. My data was old and not current.
All to just get the bearing clearance corrected….
If I had to do it again I will not build an engine.
This was my big build, my big idea and OMG what a mess it has been.
I will be vindicated IF my special MPG engine works.
But I am not 100% happy to learn that ceramic coatings will only last 30 to 50K…all the decades I read about the benefits of them I never read anywhere of how long they will NOT last. I thought they would last the life of the engine.
Oh well as this is going into a RV Van I think I will not put 50K on her in the next decade.
we all gain EXPEREANCE, and KNOWLEDGE ,mostly through the process of MAKING MISTAKES,
or if your smarter than (joe average), watching and learning through ,the MISTAKES other people make.
one area I learned a great deal through was buying, and learning to correctly use, precision measuring tools,
and doing the required research into what machine work was needed ,and how it must be done correctly,
and checking the ABYSMAL level of sub quality of work, many, but not all, machine shops produce.
Is tough I find with dealing with machine shops you need to specific in what you ask them to do. Know the issue and what needs to be corrected. I don't like handing over full reigns.
yes its MANDATORY you are very clear and specific about what you want done,
and establish both the expected total cost and parts finished date or,
delivery time frame with the machine shop before work is started.
yes this WILL ALWAYS cost you more than the typical one angle valve job,
failure to specify exactly what you expect to be done, to the heads, valves etc, WILL almost always results in mis-understandings,
lower quality work, missed machine work being done, or a total failure of the machinist do do what you intended.
you can't for example say, "DO A VALVE JOB"
you need to be specific, saying I want a 3 angle or 5 angle valve job , add new valve seats if required , test and replace all the valve springs, set the installed valve spring height at lets say 1.78" and a valve spring seat pressure falls in the expected range of of 180-193 lbs install new valve seals, verify the valve guide clearance back cut angle on the valve etc.
include diagrams and written instructions where needed
valve seat angles and the actual angles cut on the valve edges them selfs and how you have the area under the valve in the port bowl area cut and blended has a marked effect on your engines air flow. for performance use there's lots of tweaks you can use, to boost torque and horsepower, a chevy...
I've got an '88 S10 with a 4.3 it's a vin z. I'm looking for info on installing the seals. I used nylon rope to hold the valves in place once when replacing a sheared set of keepers, and I have a compressor, so that much, I don't need to know. My questions are about installing them, which...
we all gain EXPEREANCE, and KNOWLEDGE ,mostly through the process of MAKING MISTAKES,
or if your smarter than (joe average), watching and learning through ,the MISTAKES other people make.
one area I learned a great deal through was buying, and learning to correctly use, precision measuring tools,
and doing the required research into what machine work was needed ,and how it must be done correctly,
and checking the ABYSMAL level of sub quality of work, many, but not all, machine shops produce.
I agree, I was thinking that I was smarter than Joe...I did a LOT of research read a lot of articles and talked with A LOT of people nearly every step of the way. With the internet I was able to add a ton of new info.
I was refining all of this every step of the way when I was told about this site and gain a lot of more great info and help.
People here help confirmed my engines possible performance, and in one case saved it from a major failure.
My Shop is one of about 5 or 10 local shops with a good rep.
Other that standing over them with a shotgun I can see/think of any way of insuring that they did what I requested: I CLEARLY ordered my heads be machined for screw in studs to run full roller rockers...
I got a full valve job and crappy studs.
When I said I did not think my rockers would fit I had to install the heads and prove it, when given a set of replacement longer studs cracked the head. I am now waiting for them to replace the cracked head and machine the pedestals flat for studs with guild plates, to do a full valve job on the replacement head and to coat the new head with a ceramic coating.
I clearly asked for them to replace the main and rod bearings so they would have the correct clearance...
And got a full rebuild, at least they claimed to have done a main line boring, which I would have had done if I was going all out. And it was to have been done my a very good engine builder so all clearances and fittings were done by a pro, and I hope done right...
And now I have a 24K mile warranty which with it done by my self I had none...
its good to see progress made, but I always helps if you have a few precision tools and the knowledge to look at and understand exactly what your looking at, and having the tools to accurately measure anything that requires you to measure it, to be sure you have the machine shop actually performing the work as requested
example if your serious about engine FORENSICS AND PROPER assembly...you'll need a decent engine stand
I’m looking for the best quality precision tools on a limited budget (i.e. I don't want to pay $300 for one mic). I plan on building the occasional small- & big-block Chevy (more than one, less than 1000). Names that come up on the limited results I’ve found on the web include Starrett...
Looking to purchase a New Dial Bore Guage Universal set for 1.000" - 6.000" range Grumpy. 1-5 inches be Ok cover all my own engine building needs and for others I build for. I don't have the funds for a Sunnen Deep reach dial bore guage along with the Sunnen Adjustable Bench standard like Pros...
these look great, and theres little doubt they are a quality tool. keep in mind the purpose of a torque wrench, its designed to allow you to tighten bolts to a known and consistent and repeatable or duplicate-able level, that insures the bolt or fastened applies a consistent predictable clamping...
reading as many links related to any questions you have as you can!
you can use all the precision measuring tools you may have but the truth is always evident in cross checking with plasti-gauge
I’m looking for the best quality precision tools on a limited budget (i.e. I don't want to pay $300 for one mic). I plan on building the occasional small- & big-block Chevy (more than one, less than 1000). Names that come up on the limited results I’ve found on the web include Starrett...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
I just got an e-mail asking what to do if you find that the blocks oil feed passage holes don,t line up exactly right with the holes in the oil feed holes in bearings shells? paint, marker etc. tends to wash off, you really should lightly die stamp the main caps...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
look closely at the connecting rods one edge of the main bearing are is beveled noticeably more than the other that beveled side faces away from the rod its paired with because it matches the slight radiased bevel of the crank journal many builder class pistons are designed to go in, in either...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
He Measured .0004" - 4/10,000 th of an inch #5 MAIN CAP BORE DISTORTION TORQUED DOWN TO SPECS WITH THE OIL PUMP ON. I DON'T.LIKE IT. IT SHOULD BE +/- .0001" TOLERANCE. +/- .0002" INCH MAX.
garage.grumpysperformance.com
I just had a rather long and detailed discussion with a guy who it was all too obvious ,was basically just, trying to get me to give him a detailed list of engine components to build his engine. one of the main secrets , too building a really effective combo is to match the engine and drive...
garage.grumpysperformance.com I use both micrometers and snap gauges and cross check with plasti-gauge
and yes when you compare the crushed width of the plasti-gauge youll find it rarely falls as an exact match to the bar chart tape that is packaged with it so you can judge clearance based on crush width
as a general rule you select .001 bearing clearance for every inch of bearing journal diameter,
Rod bearings 0.002 - 0.025" , side clearance 0.010 - 0.020"
Main bearings 0.002 - 0.003" for most engines ( 0.020-0.025 bearing clearance on small blocks, .025-.027 bearing clearance is about ideal, on big blocks ), 0.005 - 0.007 crankshaft end play
