$10,000 for A/C and tilt wheel in this car

1970 Trans Am is a Racecar Pontiac built.
Like a Woman....$$$$$$$.
 
That dealer has a 71 Formula 400 just bought from an insurance company. At this minute it's a a/c ar with tilt body sans the rear and front clips. The interior is all there. I knew there is major deconstruction involved to get factory air but the collector world is accepting of certain alterations these days. The vintage racing collectors would bark over this but I see the collectors with money will enjoy flat out poker runs and run #1 condition cars like they stole them with the intent on restoring it yet again some day.
I witnessed million dollar plus, very rare 50s and 60s Ferrari and others racing at Limerock a few years ago. Those guys know how to enjoy their money! There were wipe outs and collisions and they just shrugged it off. Not many can wreck a 63 GT 320 4 cam worth over 10 million easily and turn around and get the next one out of the transport and run the hell out of that one too!
 
You pretty much started out with nothing too.
Not born with a Silver Spoon in your mouth.

There is nothing wrong with a Formula Firebird.
My 1St Pontiac was a 1978 Formula Firebird 4-speed.
Miss that car sometimes.
Long gone.

The list of unique parts on 1970 Firebirds and Trans Am is a huge list.
Take Birdman and myself Days to document together.
 
Man when you get behind the wheel of a really nice car, it's just intoxicating.

Funny short story. Aug. 93 I bought a brand new 94 loaded Black on black Firebird Formula from a dealer who today is my best friend. After signing the papers the owners asks If I would like to see the mens toy store down the street. We jump in the car and down the highway is an old factory - filled with vintage cars, his private collection he bought and sold from. I kick myself looking back as I backed out "or chickened" out from signing on the dotted line, a 69 COPO 427 that belonged to Roger Penski himself. The price $116,500 with a document file 1" thick. I followed that car until Reggie Jackson bought it in 08 for $665,750 at the keno bros auction in CT. 2008 was the year I got wiped out in the Real Estate market and lost everything I had. Rumor has it this car is now in Dubious part some Arab oil king's collection.
 
You can not change past history easily Richard.
Try and keep moving forward.

The 2008 Wipeout was real hard on me too.
Never sold my Pontiacs.
Kept the C4 Vert.
I sold many NOS PONTIAC PARTS IN 2007 TO PAY OFF THE LOAN ON MY CORVETTE.
I READ WALLSTREET DOOMSDAY WAS COMING.
I BELIEVED WHAT I READ.
EBAY SOLD.
 
87vette81big said:
You pretty much started out with nothing too.
Not born with a Silver Spoon in your mouth.

There is nothing wrong with a Formula Firebird.
My 1St Pontiac was a 1978 Formula Firebird 4-speed.
Miss that car sometimes.
Long gone.

The list of unique parts on 1970 Firebirds and Trans Am is a huge list.
Take Birdman and myself Days to document together.
Click to expand...
No sir! True story, when I was 10 yrs old, I delivered the morning and evening edition of the Philadelphia Bullitin. I held the record for the largest route - 325 customers per day morning, 175 by 5 pm. By bike!
I lugged around a beater lawnmower and (scissors for trimming weeds) or shoveled snow in the winter. Contracted landscaping jobs (trimming bushes, hedges, raking leaves and cleaning rain gutters) from the youth organization at a local church at $2/hr. On Saturday after papers were delivered I rode my stingray bike complete with Purple glitter banana seat 8 miles to the regions largest shopping center. In those days you could only take your cart just outside the grocery store's doors just to be stopped by these cement filled posts keeping you from going out into the parking lots. Well I used to grab grocery bags from the old ladies (30 and older) and carry them to their cars and wagons for tips. At the time my father was making $6/hr. And the shit hit the fan when he saw that at 10 - 11 years old I out earned him. After that I paid room and board $20/week and I bought my own clothes and anything I wanted or needed. I even collected coins on a very serious scale, until the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the market in silver - and I made some money. In that family you were old enough to sign your self out of school at 16, find a job and move out. That's when life got interesting for me. No silver spoons for sure.
 
chromebumpers said:
No sir! True story, when I was 10 yrs old, I delivered the morning and evening edition of the Philadelphia Bullitin. I held the record for the largest route - 325 customers per day morning, 175 by 5 pm. By bike!
I lugged around a beater lawnmower and (scissors for trimming weeds) or shoveled snow in the winter. Contracted landscaping jobs (trimming bushes, hedges, raking leaves and cleaning rain gutters) from the youth organization at a local church at $2/hr. On Saturday after papers were delivered I rode my stingray bike complete with Purple glitter banana seat 8 miles to the regions largest shopping center. In those days you could only take your cart just outside the grocery store's doors just to be stopped by these cement filled posts keeping you from going out into the parking lots. Well I used to grab grocery bags from the old ladies (30 and older) and carry them to their cars and wagons for tips. At the time my father was making $6/hr. And the shit hit the fan when he saw that at 10 - 11 years old I out earned him. After that I paid room and board $20/week and I bought my own clothes and anything I wanted or needed. I even collected coins on a very serious scale, until the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the market in silver - and I made some money. In that family you were old enough to sign your self out of school at 16, find a job and move out. That's when life got interesting for me. No silver spoons for sure.
Click to expand...
My dad was hard.
But not that hard on me.
 
chromebumpers said:
Shitz! Did I go off topic?
Click to expand...
I snuck on DC Late last night.
Defended my favorite Black Bud Junkman.
Its like he was inviting me in.
Was real bad...
Some jagoff posted Junk getting raped by his dad.
And then banging his Mom.

Network....I got in.
Used 1maniacmechanic as my user name.
All deleted now.
Raidmagic must have been sleeping.
Banned for life again....
Raid found out.
 
DC is getting like the way Corvette F . . . . Use to be. I only go there for a search now and then that's it.
 
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87vette81big said:
I snuck on DC Late last night.
Defended my favorite Black Bud Junkman.
Its like he was inviting me in.
Was real bad...
Some jagoff posted Junk getting raped by his dad.
And then banging his Mom.

Network....I got in.
Used 1maniacmechanic as my user name.
All deleted now.
Raidmagic must have been sleeping.
Banned for life again....
Raid found out.
Click to expand...
They see your IP address and you get flagged.
 
Grumpy said:
thats a damn impressive restoration

http://www.gmoutlet.com/70ta_61014/
Click to expand...
For the most part I agree. I spent the longest time for one visit looking at details. The owner was noticeably pissed at my questions. They just didn't wake up yesterday and decided to sell this car. It's been up for sale for some time and fell through on a couple of deals. One mechanic shadowed me until I managed to start finding questionable work. They wouldn't let me raise or lower the lift so one other mechanic had an easy day. He was sort of a disgruntled employee started sharing stories about the build.
At the end of a long day the owner didn't like that I classified the car as a #2 condition while he defended the #1 classification.
There are five different colors on the interior, look long enough and it's obvious where pieces were dyed. They didn't have anything to say when I pointed out the stitching was an exact match to the seat bottom in the rear. Hardware that is supposed to be black phosphate treated was merely painted. Chrome plating is at different levels of process.
Orange peel - if you're going for a higher quality than the factory provided then be complete about it. Top and sides ar perfect, the the lowest 8 inches wasn't wet sanded as the rest or buffed out like the other 90%.
The guys were very concerned when I stated testing with my paint thickness meter. I found that panel gaps were margined with some filler rather then an effort taken with assembly. The jack was incorrectly dated. I have a very special long and short waive black light that shows clearly everything from touch ups to non factory welding. As they said a perfect car would be a lot more but they are selling based on likely achieving high nine hundreds for a Pontiac judgement at a show and I say it needs about $10K more to get there.
 
The #1 Pontiac collectors with #1 cars are not on the Internet that I know of Richard.
I recall who they are from High Performance Pontiac.
They would advertise in the rear pages of,the magazine .
And their cars featured time to time in HPP.
Birdman probably knows quite a few 1970-73 Bird owners. He is on the Pontiac Forums nightly.

I have been looking for the Old Pontiac Racing Guard.
They are around.
60-80 years old now.
 
#1 Car means near all original to me.
Right down to the Enamal Paint that was inferred heat lamp cured as the 1970 Firebird Trans Am rolled down the assembly line.
I recall only 2 1970 Trans Ams meeting that criteria .
 
chromebumpers
while at this point I see your concerns about the restoration and areas it might be improved the only real questions I would really be concerned with are
(1) is it a reasonable value for the price you negotiate its purchase for
(2) can you reasonably afford it
(3) is it likely to increase in value
(4) do you have a good place to store it so it won,t deteriorate
because the real questions in the long run are can YOU improve it, will you enjoy owning it,
can you cost effectively insure and store it,
and in 10-15 years will it easily double or triple in its likely resale value if you do.
 
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A #1 condition is little to no defects, does not have to mean "all original" by the strict definition of the word.
A #1 car can have orange peel if that car when new could have had orange peel. If there is a few small items that can be fixed or adjusted with a common hand tool then a #1 could make it. Example: dull looking Stainless Steel trim, scuffs or scratches that in the opinion of the grader can be buffed or polished out, ill fitting weather stripping, one or more interior parts not an exact color match (sometimes different materials and different textures reflect or absorb light differently therefore you may see different reds in one car and it came that way),
 
Grumpy said:
chromebumpers
while at this point I see your concerns about the restoration and areas it might be improved the only real questions I would really be concerned with are
(1) is it a reasonable value for the price you negotiate its purchase for
(2) can you reasonably afford it
(3) is it likely to increase in value
(4) do you have a good place to store it so it won,t deteriorate
because the real questions in the long run are can YOU improve it, will you enjoy owning it,
can you cost effectively insure and store it,
and in 10-15 years will it easily double or triple in its likely resale value if you do.
Click to expand...
(1) Yes
(2) Yes
(3) Yes
(4) Yes
I don't have the ability to install the factory air, the tilt column yes. With those two items installed is the only way I can enjoy it. Insurance is only $542/yr. added on to what I already have. I have the room with climate control, that's no problem. I have to unload a couple other cars that don't fit my long term plans anymore. If I just correct the items that if right could be a high 900s point car at shows so I reasonably believe this is an $80,00 car at auction. About 5 to $7,00 is needed so I'll say $10,000 would be the budget to get it up there. In the other direction another 10K and I'll have my own personally fitted car with bragging rights. With that move I'd safely say it will be a mid $60,000 car at auction. American collector cars are really lagging in the market but when you look at good proven indicators like Haggertys they're using the auctions and new business as a barometer creeping up over the last 6 years.
 
The Pontiac GTO 1964-72 Is still worth more than most Trans Ams.

Hoping for $80,000 value that is just not there.
Same for $60,000.
 
Some Pontiac guys like them stock.
Some hate resto mods.

Unpredictable what the market is in future.
 
To me the greatest prize is being able to Race them when you want to.
 
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