Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

Grumpy states very valid points, if your in a hot place, it may be smarter to keep your Static around 10:1 and keep your Dynamic close to 8:1. It might be the smart play!
 
87vette81big said:
Been busy today working on my 1963 Grand Prix & Olds 425 V8 install.
Anothee night or 2 & Ready to Fire her up.
I see Grumpy, Rick, & Bob are helping tonight.
I am leaning towards Grumpy's 2 cents.
11.0 Static is pretty high.
9.0-9.3 :1 be better.
Anymore I think a Street engine shpuld run safe on 87 octane pee water gas.
In case no other higher octane gas is available. like 89-91-93.
Click to expand...

Hope you get some photos and videos of the start up Brian :) I'm excited for you.

What are your thoughts on the Promaxx heads? Will they work for my build..? They are in budget ;)

http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/racing-parts/sbc/sbc-small-block-chevy-2112.html

87vette81big said:
To run a Roller Camshaft you need $1,000 bucks to be on the safe side.

Full Road Race or Drag Race Roller, $2,000-4,000 bucks.
$4,000 bucks includes A Full set of 16 Titanium valves.

Flat Tappet Solid & Hydraulic cams still a Good Choice today on a Budget.
Click to expand...

On a budget is what I am.... :) What are the pros and cons of solid FT and Hydraulic FT?
 
busterrm said:
Grumpy states very valid points, if your in a hot place, it may be smarter to keep your Static around 10:1 and keep your Dynamic close to 8:1. It might be the smart play!
Click to expand...
He tends to do that..... ;)

The machine shop even commented that my RPM intake manifold may have been better to have been the airgap version, to allow improved cooling... temperature is worth keeping in mind..
 
Yes those heads look okay, find out the flow data on them so a desktop dyno can be estimated. With the larger chambers you can run a cam with a IVC of 64 or 65 and be pretty safe. Or one with a shorter IVC and retard it to get the Dynamic right. You can't beat a Perf RPM airgap they are great for street.
 
You get what you pay for when it comes to SBC engine parts.
Your not Racing.
Want a Broad Flat Torque curve.
Its your 1st engine.
Should be easy to tune it and maintain it.
Turn key and drive anywhere.

The 1st 20 minutes of camshaft break in is critical with Flat tappet cams.
Low cost to buy is a nice benifit.
 
Roller cams are expensive but well worth the extra money, I've heard from several that flat tappet to roller on wear is 2:1, 2 flat tappets will wear out before 1 roller will wear out. Just make sure your valve geometry is right and your good.
 
busterrm said:
Yes those heads look okay, find out the flow data on them so a desktop dyno can be estimated. With the larger chambers you can run a cam with a IVC of 64 or 65 and be pretty safe. Or one with a shorter IVC and retard it to get the Dynamic right. You can't beat a Perf RPM airgap they are great for street.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the input. I'll try to hunt down that flow data...

I am pretty sure Promaxx, used to be Patriot..? and a set of those did well in the head comparison on Hot Rod or somewhere..

I originally wanted the Aigap intake... But after seeing a video showing that similar results were seen with a spacer and potentially adjustment to the center fin, I jumped on a cheap second hand intake... I didn't consider heat.... I might keep an eye out for a airgap for the future..
 
Keep in mind to rebuild most any Rear differential and install new gears of choice it takes $600-950 bucks.
 
87vette81big said:
You get what you pay for when it comes to SBC engine parts.
Your not Racing.
Want a Broad Flat Torque curve.
Its your 1st engine.
Should be easy to tune it and maintain it.
Turn key and drive anywhere.

The 1st 20 minutes of camshaft break in is critical with Flat tappet cams.
Low cost to buy is a nice benifit.
Click to expand...

You're right.. Even when I am racing, it'll be pretty slowly and only for fun...

The car will be used only on weekends, so potentially the durability of a roller is less important..

The "first 20 minutes" is stressing me out a little.. But, there's lots of info online about how to increase the chance of success.. :)
 
87vette81big said:
Keep in mind to rebuild most any Rear differential and install new gears of choice it takes $600-950 bucks.
Click to expand...

I've spoken to a few shops about diff prices and over here its pretty much all Ford 9".... 12bolts and Danas are few and far between and/or expensive..

Quotes range from $1500 - $4000 for diffs... I have the number of a guy who I was told will do me a 9" with my parts attached for about $1500.. need to follow that up.. I might need to save for a little while after the engine is built...

There will also be saving of $$ to buy a rebuildable TH350 and parts and tools.... (I'm keen to do that myself)..... Long ways to go.... I'll pretend I'm eating and elephant and do it a bite at a time... ;)
 
JimmyDuncan said:
I might jump on these.. Any reason why they won't work?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I would want to know exactly what piston I'm going to use with those heads, do
you have a part number and specs? You are buying a system not just components.
Need to make sure you can buy exactly what's needed and the only way to do that
is a plan done in writing with all related components spelled out.
 
Indycars said:
I would want to know exactly what piston I'm going to use with those heads, do
you have a part number and specs? You are buying a system not just components.
Need to make sure you can buy exactly what's needed and the only way to do that
is a plan done in writing with all related components spelled out.
Click to expand...


Yep, fair enough Rick.


I have a set of 383 flat top .040 hypereutectic pistons. Brand name Hypatec. Couldn't find much the brand, but the machine shop has used them and have had good results. They have 4 x valve relief which I'm estimating have a 6.5ish cc. I have emailed the distributor and asked for the info.


What else do I need to consider before buying the heads?


They have a 72cc chamber which helps me get into the right SCR zone.

They look to have better lift and flow compared to the E-streets I was going to get.

I am pretty sure they are a similar head to the 64cc Patriot heads used in the Hotrod budget head shoot out, and they were best hp/$ in that article.

They are in budget.... ;)

I'll start on a written plan too..
 
Can't really go back and Redo the Shortblock.
Its been machined and balanced.
I would have chose a Dished piston.
+ 15 To 20 cc Dish.
Keep the build simple and no Trickery needed in cam timing, Slow spark advance, Exact Carb fuel delivery.
Low gears like 3.90-4.56 in the diff lessons the load the engines sees.
Less likely to run into Detonation issues.
Your Impala is Heavier than my 1963 Grand Prix at 4,200 pounds with me in it & 25 gallons of gasoline in the tank.
 
87vette81big said:
Can't really go back and Redo the Shortblock.
Its been machined and balanced.
I would have chose a Dished piston.
+ 15 To 20 cc Dish.
Keep the build simple and no Trickery needed in cam timing, Slow spark advance, Exact Carb fuel delivery.
Low gears like 3.90-4.56 in the diff lessons the load the engines sees.
Less likely to run into Detonation issues.
Your Impala is Heavier than my 1963 Grand Prix at 4,200 pounds with me in it & 25 gallons of gasoline in the tank.
Click to expand...

No we can't... re-machining the block isn't in the budget... ;)
My calculations for SCR and DCR look like they will be fine...
Frank is a heavy beast for sure...

Any thoughts on the Promaxx heads I'm looking at Brian? They look like a good value option.. better than the E-Streets.

72cc is good for SCR..

http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/racing-parts/sbc/sbc-small-block-chevy-2112.html
 
http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/racing-parts/sbc/sbc-small-block-chevy-2112.html
looks like a good choice for that application,
keep in mind what goes in must exit and the exhaust gases have significantly increased in heat and volume, and the headers and cam timing complement each other, so having a set of long tube headers, and a low flow restriction exhaust goes a long way to allowing the engine to breath effectively
theres a good deal of related info in the links I posted here

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-guys-that-just-slap-on-factory-headers.3155/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-between-shorty-and-full-length-headers.1303/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/building-custom-headers.961/#post-15359

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-exhaust-system-for-your-car.1166/#post-8363

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculating-header-design.185/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculating-required-exhaust-pipe-size.11552/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-diam-headers-do-i-need.7017/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/mig-or-tig.72/page-2

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...eld-gas-selection-for-welding.1108/#post-2185

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-an-exhaust-system.255/#post-303
 
Grumpy said:
http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/racing-parts/sbc/sbc-small-block-chevy-2112.html
looks like a good choice for that application,
keep in mind what goes in must exit and the exhaust gases have significantly increased in heat and volume, and the headers and cam timing complement each other, so having a set of long tube headers, and a low flow restriction exhaust goes a long way to allowing the engine to breath effectively
theres a good deal of related info in the links I posted here

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-guys-that-just-slap-on-factory-headers.3155/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-between-shorty-and-full-length-headers.1303/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/building-custom-headers.961/#post-15359

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-exhaust-system-for-your-car.1166/#post-8363

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculating-header-design.185/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculating-required-exhaust-pipe-size.11552/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-diam-headers-do-i-need.7017/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/mig-or-tig.72/page-2

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...eld-gas-selection-for-welding.1108/#post-2185

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-an-exhaust-system.255/#post-303
Click to expand...

Thanks Grumpy.
 
JimmyDuncan said:
I'll start on a written plan too..
Click to expand...

If you have access to Excel, it's a wonderful tool for just this type of situation.
Below is my Excel file for purchasing. The colored rows signify the components
that I wanted the machine shop to buy at that time.
 

Attachments

  • EnginePurchasingList-Carters01a.xlsx
    12.6 KB · Views: 1
JimmyDuncan said:
Any thoughts on the Promaxx heads I'm looking at
Click to expand...
Maybe it don't matter, but are those heads straight plug or angled. They look
to be straight, but I can't tell for sure. Will they work with your headers?

If possible I would try to get the 7/16 inch studs in those heads or have you
already bought your rocker arms?
 
I found some flow data on those heads:
Intake = .100 - 65, .200 - 137, .300 - 189, .400 - 224, .500 - 235, .600 - 234.
Exhaust = .100 - 62, .200 - 104, .300 - 140, .400 -160, .500 - 170, .600 - 174.

I would definitely do some port matching and bowl clean up and you'll flow a little bit more.
I was playing with DD2000 and that crane solid cam would do pretty good with those heads!
 
Guesstimation of 401 hp @ 6000 and 415 tq @ 4500 with the crane solid. Pretty strong tq to be pulling Frank the Tank! You could gain about 3-4 hp if you retard it to 75lvc, but you would lose about 9 in tq. I ran it at 71 lvc for the 401hp/415tq.
 
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