Dan From Sault Ste Marie Ontario

Been using this website before but I finally signed up.
Built a 350 small block back a few years ago and now I am working with a 4.8L ls

Thanks for all the great info and discussions on this site!
 
It will be going back into the truck.
I am not quite sure what direction to go with this, I would love to do a stroker crank, but don't plan on going over 550 hp and all I can find are forged cranks...seems overkill.
I looked at turbos and that seems great for big peak power numbers...but what I want is a big flat torque curve with quick throttle response.
Oh well, I will just dive into the reading and see what I come up with.
 
Maybe Grumpy will have some links to some cast cranks. But 550 HP from 4.8L (293 cuin) is going
to be pretty radical for the street, so I'm not surprised that you can only find forged components.
 
Thanks for the input everyone!

Yes, I have been reading lots and am leaning more to a forged crank now, I'd rather build the bottom end once instead of shredding it to pieces. Also, for the cost of balancing and machine work I intend to do, I might as well do it right. I see there is a forged 3.900" crank I can get from K1 technologies. I know a lot of guys use the 4.000" crank but I would do well to bore the cylinders out to 3.905 and I thought bore stroke ratios were supposed to be greater than 1. However, I will poke around the site about what I can see here about bore-stroke ratios.

I know that at 1.2 to 1.4 hp per cubic inch for and NA engine I should expect between 375 and 438 hp (hence my leaning to a stroker crank to increase displacement). This also brings me back to the turbo question, but I think I need to take a step back and think about how I am going to use this vehicle.

This truck is being built as something that is driven regularly, but it is not my daily driver.
I will never take it down the 1/4 mile track, but I want to be able to put a big stupid grin on my face whenever I want.
I will not use the truck for towing.
I also need to be able to run pump gas (I have 91 octane available where I am but if 87 works then that's what I will do).
I need to keep 4x4 as we get plenty of snow up here in Sault Ste Marie.
It needs to be able to idle and I do not need it to scream to 7000 rpm.
The truck could go on a 3 hour drive to Costco (the wife will gladly load up the truck at Costco), but we would cruise there at 75 mph (120km/hr) because if I go any faster then that I will meet my friendly neighborhood police man :)

Last time I build a truck it was a 75 c10 with a 350 4 bolt. It had:
  • Stock rotating assembly
  • Summit 1102 camshaft 204/214 with .422/.444 lift running a 4 deg advance https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1102
  • 190cc heads with 64cc combustion chamber and a
  • 1.5 roller rockers
  • 600cfm 4 barrel carb
  • Edelbrock dual plane intake
  • 1 5/8" headers with 2.5" exhaust (with some cheap high flow mufflers from summit)
  • I also had a 2400 rpm stall converter.
  • 3.73 gears with stock 27.5 inch tires

I think I regret my camshaft selection, the truck was too tame, I wanted more. The old girl drove well and could keep up with any new truck no problem, but it just didn't get up and go (never felt myself getting pushed into my seat). IT was awesome how I could just lightly touch the throttle and it would glide up 10 to 15 mph so I think I had the torque I wanted, but gave up too much on the top end.

When I built the C10 I just kinda did it as I went a long. This time I want to make a parts list and actually plan out the engine to match what I want. A lot of the info on other sites is about engine building based around peak hp and high rpms for lighter cars. How do I take that info and build a power curve for a heavier truck? (I do find TONS of helpful info on this sight).

So to re-cap:
How do I determine a desired power curve based on what I want?
What considerations do I need to make for bore stroke ratios?
How will the extra weight of the truck come into play during component selection?
 
How do I determine a desired power curve based on what I want?
Once you have a handle on most of your components, then fill in the info below and I can run a computer
simulation on your engine. This usually comes down to simulating several possible camshafts.

Dynomation 6 Input Variables

Bore & Stroke:
Displacement: cubic inches
Rod Length:
Heads Make/Model with flow numbers: Flow (CFM) at several lift points.
Combustion Chamber Size in CC’s:
Dome Volume: For a domed piston use a (-) negative number.
Valve Relief Volume: For a piston with valve reliefs or dish, use a (+) positive number.
Deck Clearance:
Head Gasket Bore:
Head Gasket Thickness:
Valve Sizes Intake/Exhaust:
Intake Manifold Model Type: [Single or Dual Plane]
Model #:
Carburetor Size or EFI (CFM):
Blower/Turbo Make/Model:
Belt Ratio:
SCR & DCR: Or the info to calculate SCR & DCR [ http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...comp-ratio-cranking-pressure-calculator.4458/ ]
Header Tube Diameter: Small, Medium, Large (1-5/8", or , or)
Cam Card: Need all 8 valve timing events at seat-to-seat and at 0.050” & lobe lift or valve lift
Rocker Ratio - Intake/Exhaust:
Cam Installed per Cam Card, or Retarded or Advanced:
Fuel Used: Gasoline, Methanol, Ethanol, E85 .....

What considerations do I need to make for bore stroke ratios?
I don't think you are going to be able to change the ratio enough to worry about that aspect of the engine. I
would use the longer stroke for the extra cubes it adds. Having enough bore for bigger valves is something
that you can't change all that much either.

How will the extra weight of the truck come into play during component selection?
I didn't find where you said what rear gear ratio you have in this truck, that will have a significant effect on
your component selection.
 
reading the links posted and sub-links will lead you to charts , graphs etc,
that point you to the answers and discussions about how and why certain components work and how parts are matched to be more effective

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/semi-fool-proof-cam-sellection.82/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dynamic-vs-static-compression.727/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sellecting-cylinder-heads.796/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...mbers-or-a-good-street-combo-your-after.5078/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-few-calculator-links.7108/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lsa-effects-your-compression-torque-dcr.1070/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/more-port-flow-related-info.322/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...uild-the-engine-to-match-the-cam-specs.11764/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculating-header-design.185/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/exhaust-thinking-of-your-options.13115/



camcomp.jpg

CamUsageChart01.jpg



lsadig.jpg


TIGHTER 104-110 LSA tend to increase scavenging efficincy but at the cost of less smooth idle
pistonposition2.jpg


LSA lobe separation angle is locked into the cam when its ground and can not change, if its ground at 110,degrees or 114 degrees it will stay that figure
and

LCA lobe center angle, can be changed
if you advance the cam 4 degrees both the intake and exhaust lobe opening and closing points open and close 4 degrees earlier.
if you RETARD the cam 4 degrees both the intake and exhaust lobe opening and closing points open and close 4 degrees later.


AS your displacement per cylinder increases the effective valve size per cubic inch decreases so you need a slightly tighter LSA and these charts should help.

0607phr_11_z+camshaft_basics+lobe_centerline_angle_determination_chart.jpg

Duration_v_RPM-Range_wIntakeManifold01.jpg

craneq2.gif

Compression_Power.gif

definition.jpg

postiongraph.jpg
 
Last edited:
Thanks Grumpy! I will read through. I started an excel file to do all the calculations, once I iterate through it I will post what I came up with.
 
I don't think you are going to be able to change the ratio enough to worry about that aspect of the engine.
You are right. according to Heywood's Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals Bore-Stroke ratios should fall between 0.8 to 1.2, so using a 4.000" crank with a 3.780" bore (or 3.905" bore) won't be a problem. B/L = 0.945 for the 3.780" bore (I knew I had read it some where before). :)

now to read Taylor's book and look up everything on knock... :S
I have a question. It likely that I will run this engine in the winter, how will this effect my design parameters? I know oil and lubrication will be affected and that running temp will impact detonation (although colder prevents it so no worry there). But I assume most of you are not driving much in the winter, so I want to make sure I am not over looking anything. Is there anything I should take into account because of winter operation? It usually gets pretty cold here -25 degrees Celsius (-13 Fahrenheit)

Indy, I will hopefully have a list of parameters put together to run into your calculator by the end of next week!
 
The first thing that comes to mind is Air Fuel Ratio will change since you are using a carburetor. Colder air is denser air, thus it changes the AFR.

now to read Taylor's book and look up everything on knock... :S
What book are you referring to ?

Another good book is, I really enjoyed this one .....
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Stroke-...49859&sprefix=four+stroke+perf,aps,178&sr=8-1

Performance Tuning A 4 Stroke.jpg

I also have this book I would love to sell. How are your math skills??? The math is over my head and
the cost was quit high. I've highlighted text in a 1/2 dozen pages, but otherwise this book is in
pristine condition. I would gladly sell it for 1/2 price of $60.

https://www.sae.org/publications/books/content/r-186/
https://www.amazon.com/Design-Simulatio ... 0768004403

FP02_Design and Simulation of Four-Stroke Engines_01.jpg
FP02_Design and Simulation of Four-Stroke Engines_02.JPG

Indy, I will hopefully have a list of parameters put together to run into your calculator by the end of next week!
OK, when ever you are ready.
.
 
Air Fuel Ratio will change since you are using a carburetor.
Clarification. I intend to keep the LS fuel injected. Whether I switch over to a trailblazer ss intake or a fast truck manifold I have yet to figure out.

I am referrring to Charles Lafayette Taylor's book "The internal combustion engine in theory and practice"
https://books.google.ca/books/about...p_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

I appreciate the offer, but I already have more books than I can read. If I finish them all I will let you know.
 
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