ZZ4 upgrades

Z

ZZ71s

Active Member
I have already added the lt4 hot cam to gain more power.
Now I am thinking about some new heads I was thinking about just getting some Fast burns and makeing a zz430.
But I started thinking if you could get 430 hp from some fast burns then what could you get from a newer design head.
Heres the combo that I am tthinking about ZZ4 short block,lt4 hot cam with 1.6 rockers,edlebrock performer rpm and AFR 180 eliminators with 58 cc chambers
The hot cam 218 228 .525 .525 112
Theres a engine on the AFR web dyno sight 355 cid that is putting out 450 hp and 470 torque do you all think that I will get close to these numbers with the lt4 hot cam.
The hot cam has more lift with the 1.6 rockers than the cam on the AFR sight.



 
I was NOT ignoring your request, I was and still am researching LOWER cost alternatives to give the best value for the dollar spent.
not having enough cash for all the components you would like to add into your cars engine or drive train is hardly a rare condition, Its one I understand only too well!
a hot cam is a nice upgrade from the stock cam, but your VERY unlikely to get close to 450hp/470 torque your requesting, with a basically stock 350 and a hot cam combo, the easiest route would obviously be a WET NITROUS KIT,as if it is tuned correctly, its an easy 75-100hp boost, the better heads and a bigger cam will be far more expensive, and to get the full potential a higher compression ratio, larger displacement and possibly a rear gear and if its an automatic trans,a converter stall speed increase would be advisable,the smart route is to build a SECOND engine slowly in your shop/garage as the budget allows with good quality components and once its complete you take a weekend and swap engines, that approach allows you a fall back position, in that you can easily drop the stock engine back into the car if anything unexpected happens to the performance engine.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2901&p=7535#p7535
 
Money is always a concern but I will have the money for the heads and any other parts for this project.
So you think that the engine on the AFR sight is a bunch of BS.
Even if the numbers are bs I still like the power band of that engine.
I like the way the power comes on with the zz4 and hot cam max torqu 4300 and max hp 5800
You can mill the afrs down to 55 cc this would step up compression up a little from the 10 to 1 the zz4 comes with.
The NO2 skears me with hyper u pistons.
All right Grumpy if you where going to build me an engine to beat the zz430 and keep the power down low in the power band and keeping the torque number at least as high as the HP numbers.
YOu have to keep the ZZ4 short block though.

How would you build it?
My car has a m21 and 355s its a 71 vette.
 
ZZ71s said:
Money is always a concern but I will have the money for the heads and any other parts for this project.
So you think that the engine on the AFR sight is a bunch of BS.
Even if the numbers are bs I still like the power band of that engine.
I like the way the power comes on with the zz4 and hot cam max torqu 4300 and max hp 5800
You can mill the afrs down to 55 cc this would step up compression up a little from the 10 to 1 the zz4 comes with.
The NO2 skears me with hyper u pistons.
All right Grumpy if you where going to build me an engine to beat the zz430 and keep the power down low in the power band and keeping the torque number at least as high as the HP numbers.
YOu have to keep the ZZ4 short block though.

How would you build it?
My car has a m21 and 355s its a 71 vette.
Click to expand...

I never indicated in any way that the AFR build was B.S. your comparing apples to oranges, your asking about trying to use cheaper cylinder heads, (the fast burns) to duplicate the AFR flow rates, and while that might be possible its unlikely.
I do think the 195cc ELIMINATORS with a slightly larger cam in the 220-225 duration range with the MATCHING necessary components, like intake, headers, and rear gearing would produce better horsepower, you've got a manual transmission, and 3.55 rear gears, those 3.55 rear gears are great for street strip use and Ive used them in several cars.
I don,t know what YOUR idea of STREET ABLE is, that's a judgment call,
but personally Id suggest the slightly larger 195cc heads and a cam similar to a crower
custom 4/7 firing order swap, hydraulic roller cam,cam on a 110 lsa cam, using lobe design B1606 on the intake and B1607 on the exhaust
lift is .561 on the intake and .570 on the exhaust, matched to those 195 cc heads
naturally youll need to order the heads with the roller cam springs that clear a 600 lift and verify clearances on the heads
http://www.airflowresearch.com/store/in ... Path=1_2_4

crowers # 1-619-661-6477
 
grumpyvette said:
ZZ71s said:
Money is always a concern but I will have the money for the heads and any other parts for this project.
So you think that the engine on the AFR sight is a bunch of BS.
Even if the numbers are bs I still like the power band of that engine.
I like the way the power comes on with the zz4 and hot cam max torqu 4300 and max hp 5800
You can mill the afrs down to 55 cc this would step up compression up a little from the 10 to 1 the zz4 comes with.
The NO2 skears me with hyper u pistons.
All right Grumpy if you where going to build me an engine to beat the zz430 and keep the power down low in the power band and keeping the torque number at least as high as the HP numbers.
YOu have to keep the ZZ4 short block though.

How would you build it?
My car has a m21 and 355s its a 71 vette.
Click to expand...

I never indicated in any way that the AFR build was B.S. your comparing apples to oranges, your asking about trying to use cheaper cylinder heads, (the fast burns) to duplicate the AFR flow rates, and while that might be possible its unlikely.
I do think the 195cc ELIMINATORS with a slightly larger cam in the 220-225 duration range with the MATCHING necessary components, like intake, headers, and rear gearing would produce better horsepower, you've got a manual transmission, and 3.55 rear gears, those 3.55 rear gears are great for street strip use and Ive used them in several cars.
I don,t know what YOUR idea of STREET ABLE is, that's a judgment call,
but personally Id suggest the slightly larger 195cc heads and a cam similar to a crower
custom 4/7 firing order swap, hydraulic roller cam,cam on a 110 lsa cam, using lobe design B1606 on the intake and B1607 on the exhaust
lift is .561 on the intake and .570 on the exhaust, matched to those 195 cc heads
naturally youll need to order the heads with the roller cam springs that clear a 600 lift and verify clearances on the heads
http://www.airflowresearch.com/store/in ... Path=1_2_4

crowers # 1-619-661-6477
Click to expand...
The reason I am using the fast burns in comparison is if I put them on the zz4 with the hot cam I will have the ZZ430.
 
The comp cams 12-432-8 is in the AFR 355 cid 450 hp build
282 288 230 235 .51 .52 110
hot cam 218 228 .525 .525 112
I dont know anything about cams but they dont seem to be to far apart.
Do you think if I dupicate the AFR 355 450 hp build I would get the advertised HP and torque.
The combo as it stands now zz4,hot cam,1.6 rocker,holley 770,hooker comp 1 5/8,edlebrock preformer rpm,true 2 1/2 duals,m21 and 355s it runs really good
Maybe I should just go with the known combo zz430 and forget about getting any after market heads.
How much difference do you think the 180 s and 85 cc chambers make with the hot cam
 
you should be able to duplicate the AFR build, the crower cam specs I listed and 195CC AFR heads I listed should have better performance across most of the engines power band
the COMP 282 288 230 235 .51 .52 110 will have good peak hp but drop a bunch of off idle -lower rpm range torque if you look around on the site youll see I used a CRANE 119661 with a 112 LSA and 230/238 duration in my 383, its not nearly ideal on the street in traffic but its a good match to my combo and works well with a 200 shot of nitrous

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=263
 
I was not discounting your recommendation I just had to ask about the two cams.
So your cam recommendation and the 195s will make a good stop light to stop light engine will it really smash you into the seat right off the line.
Will I get to keep the edlebrock performer rpm and 1 5/8 headers or do I need a change?
 
This is just the topic im looking for.
I have a ZZ4 that im looking to upgrade from stock but it has to be very streetable.
I live in los angeles and traffic can be horrible so i need dependability.
What are the best upgrades for the buck?
I definitely would like a bigger cam.
Also, what brand and size carb do u suggest?
 
a good deal of the choice of cams comes down to what characteristics in engine performance you want , the rpm range you are willing to operate in,the engine compression ratio, and the octane rating of the fuel,and what your drive train is set up to handle.
if your looking for a mild upgrade that noticeably improves performance but a cam that will still be very street drivable under most conditions, having a long detailed discussion with the tech guys at several DIFFERENT cam manufacturer" AND NOT MENTIONING TO ANY OF THEM WHAT ANY OTHER MANUFACTURER SAID" will help, you get a good grasp on the duration range you need, keep in mind a manual trans allows you far more flexibility than an auto with a higher stall converter.
ID strongly suggest talking to no less than 5 manufacturers before making a selection

READ THESE THREADS and keep in mind PEAK hp numbers might be impressive but you'll spend 99% of your time BELOW peak hp levels
as an example in my cars 383 the crane 119661 was as radical as IM willing to tolerate, on a street ca,r the CROWER 00471 and CRANE 119651 were tried BOTH made better peak hp, the crane 119821 was great in traffic but lacked the upper rpm power I wanted

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=155

http://www.jegs.com/p/Crane/Crane-Cams- ... 2/10002/-1
 
leroylucky said:
This is just the topic im looking for.
I have a ZZ4 that im looking to upgrade from stock but it has to be very streetable.
I live in los angeles and traffic can be horrible so i need dependability.
What are the best upgrades for the buck?
I definitely would like a bigger cam.
Also, what brand and size carb do u suggest?
Click to expand...
I am using a 770street avn runs really strong.
My plans where to build a zz430 first install a Lt4 hot cam then I am suppose to install some Fast burns to complete the zz430.
This is a proven combo
http://video.google.com/videosearch?sou ... a=N&tab=wv
People say there are better cams out there so listen to Grumpy if you want something more.]
 
I have a ZZ4 with the stock heads.
Should i do work to these heads or buy the fast burns.
Can i get the same results or better with doing work to these heads.
Is this the most economical way.
 
the correct answer depends on your budget and goals.
you might find this interesting

From Sallee-Chevrolet:

SBC Corvette Aluminum Cylinder Head Assembly (This is also the ZZ4 350 HO Cylinder Head).
This aluminum cylinder head assembly for small-block Chevrolet V8s is ideal for street rods, fresh-water power boats, and high-performance applications. GM Performance Parts’ aluminum cylinder head assembly combines the benefits of light weight, advanced design, and an affordable price. This complete head assembly includes valves, chrome silicon heavy-duty valve springs, retainers, 3/8” screw-in rocker studs-everything an enthusiast wants in a high-performance cylinder head package!

GM Performance Parts aluminum cylinder head assemblies are based on brand new Corvette light alloy castings (P/N 10088113). The Corvette cylinder head’s advanced design features include D-shaped exhaust ports that enhance the flow of burned gases, high-velocity intake runners that provide crisp throttle response, and centrally located spark plugs that improve combustion efficiency. Valve seat inserts for 1.94” diameter intake valves and 1.50” exhausts are installed in the 58cc combustion chambers. Raised rocker cover rails with machined sealing surfaces virtually eliminate rocker cover gasket oil leaks.

This high-performance cylinder head assembly is used exclusively on High Output 5.7-liter small-block V8 engines. Unlike production Corvette cylinder heads, it is outfitted with special heavy-duty valve springs (see part number 12551483 for technical specifications(JIM: These are the same LT4 springs as the Hot Cam Kit). A pair of aluminum cylinder heads offers a weight savings of approximately 50 pounds over comparable cast iron cylinder heads. (A bare aluminum casting, less valves and springs, weighs 19 pounds, versus 44 pounds for a bare cast iron head). This reduction in total engine weight of 25 pounds each can improve handling, acceleration, and fuel economy.
Part Number ... Description.
12555269 ......... Stamped steel rocker cover.
10229162 ......... Corvette screw-in oil filter cap.
12342056 ......... Chrome screw-in oil cap with GM logo.
12338092 ........ .Valve cover hold-down bolts (8 required).
14094717 ......... Hold-down bolt washers (8 required).
14088793 ......... Hold-down bolt gaskets (8 required).
14088564 ......... Neoprene rocker cover gasket.
12557236 ......... Composition head gasket, .051” thick.
12495499 ......... Head Bolt Kit.
12495490 ......... Rocker Arm Kit.

Technical Notes: This casting does not have intake manifold heat riser or EGR passages. The exhaust port exits are approximately .100” higher than production cast iron heads; exhaust manifolds and aftermarket headers may require modification to maximize airflow. The spark plug holes are angled; check for adequate exhaust manifold or header clearance. Use 3/4” reach gasketed spark plugs with 5/8” hex heads (AC FR5LS), 904, or MR43LTS. In Rapid Fire use #8 plug. Both ends of the head are machined for alternator, power steering, and air conditioning compressor mounts. No push rod guide plates; use rail type rocker arms P/N 10089648. This aluminum head assembly requires valve covers with central hold-down bolts and extra-long bolts with washers. A composition head gasket with stainless steel fire rings is recommended to prevent galvanic action between the head and a cast iron engine block. This head assembly is the same as P/N 10185087, except valve spring and retainer change.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... heads.html

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySm ... 8s/355.cfm

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

http://www.chevyasylum.com/chp/
 
please excuse my ignorance.
is it cheaper and will i get the similar results from doing work to the HO heads or do i need to spend the cash on the fast burns?
 
leroylucky said:
please excuse my ignorance.
is it cheaper and will i get the similar results from doing work to the HO heads or do i need to spend the cash on the fast burns?
Click to expand...

you can get better results with the fast burns, because they flow significantly better, than the aluminum corvette heads if both heads are equally modified, (a mild port and bowl clean-up)PROVIDED you use an aggressive cam with enough lift to take full advantage of the better port design in the fast burns and Id point out that there's even better heads available,keep in mind some heads wont fit your intake manifold either and the cam you select will effect how well each head performs, but the cost of getting the better heads might not be worth the gains, you need to decide on your goals and budget
lets assume that the stock flow rates for both heads are used, because I don,t have any real flow figures ON YOUR ENGINE


http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/su ... l#GM%20LT4

the l98 aluminum heads flow at about 200cfm
the fast burns flow better than 250cfm, that's potentially about a 20% gain PROVIDED the rest of the combo takes full advantage of the higher AVERAGE rpm range and port flow rates that use of the fast burns potentially can provide
 
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7610/dyno.htm
Grumpy have you seen this small heads,large displacement and mild cam.
This is what I am looking to do with my zz4 short block and the afr 180s.
What would happen if I just use my hot cam its close to the cams in the link?
I know these combos are a little old.
I also know that my 350 is not a large displacement engine.
 
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