Cam grinder with tuned port experience?

It’s interesting you meant the wave action with the headers. Being purely a hobby build and a tinkerer, I have seriously considered modeling a header in pipemax and building one to compliment the intake manifold. Call me nuts, but I think it would be fun…and I happen to have metal working tools including a chopsaw and a tig in the garage. Might be worth considering if there are gains there.

Always love doing something new.
 
dhirocz said:
It’s interesting you meant the wave action with the headers. Being purely a hobby build and a tinkerer, I have seriously considered modeling a header in pipemax and building one to compliment the intake manifold.
Click to expand...
I got you covered on the software side.

dhirocz said:
Call me nuts, but I think it would be fun…and I happen to have metal working tools including a chopsaw and a tig in the garage. Might be worth considering if there are gains there.

Always love doing something new.
Click to expand...
I love these kind of projects, where I explore the theoretical side and then build it or in my case for the headers have it fabricated for me. It was roughly a 4 year project, starting with reading everything I could find and building Excel spreadsheets to use their formulas.

If you have a higher level understanding of math, I have the book for you. It's filled with calculus and diff equation on nearly every other page.It was over my head, but still some good reading.

 
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Link didn’t work.

I was thinking of a tuned length headers with merge collectors and spikes, crankcase evac, and a pressure wave termination box running through a carefully selected pair of mufflers.

I do think going against the ‘bolt it together’ mentality and examining theory and customizing a build around that makes the build more fun!
 
Got a couple projects done and I’m back on this one.

I was considering running an 8hp trans, but as broad of a torque curve as I see, the 6L80 should be more than adequate I would think. Shouldn’t be too concerned about keeping it in the powerband. The 58x/E38 ecm should have no issue controlling a 6L80, so I won’t have to spend more either.

I have found both a 224/232 duration step nose camshaft that will work, as well as one running an LS firing order on a retrofit core, both billet.

The top of the powerband flattens out. I’m curious if going to a superram style (pizza box) plenum and loosing 3” of runner length will help that, or do I have room to go up on the cam without making off idle and low speed torque production suffer?

I’d be willing to bet pipemax would prefer a much longer primary tube than is typically offered in off the shelf headers.
 
NewbVetteGuy

Post in thread 'Ideal TPI Build?'

Grumpy said:
while the video result looks impressive the potential of a 406 SBC, built to provide near 11:1 compression, especially if you use ethanol laced fuel, with the better heads like the profiler BRODIX TRICKFLOW OR AFR or similar 200-230cc port sbc heads

Pro-Filer Racing Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifolds

State of the Art Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifolds for Racing and Street Performance.
www.profilerperformance.com www.profilerperformance.com
...
Click to expand...

I've built a couple dozen TPI engines, lets point out the factory parts holding your power numbers down,
heads all suck, most OEM heads flow under 210 cfm at .500 lift, the TPI intake even ported is very restrictive, the stock injectors are rated at 19 lbs-24 lbs
I've built and modified many custom TPI intakes, Ive modified and ported dozens,
it's the COMBO of the better intake (BUY A FIRST INTAKE) so far it's the best option, match that intake manifold,
to much better flowing cylinder heads, look for heads with at least a a 250 cfm at .500 lift, (260 cfm at 500 lift is even better)
use a 2800 rpm-3000 rpm stall converter, and headers with a (X) pipes and matched dual 3" dual exhaust, and ideally a 3.36:1-3.73:1 rear gear ratio, and use injectors that fully match the intended air flow ,engine displacement and engines redesigned power potential.
without matching injectors the stock ones designed for under 250 hp will stall higher power numbers
remember the stock TPI engines produced between about 230-250hp(depends on year)
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/1991-corvette-specs/ (last year, 245 factory rated horse power)
you can DOUBLE that with the correct upgrades in parts
do not forget to use a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, as it frequently adds considerable extended durability,
as will a remote oil cooler for the transmission fluid along with a temp gauge so you can monitor fluid temps.
ideally you'll want about a 9.7:1-10:1 compression ratio, and ideally upgrade to a 383-406 displacement,
in most cases you'll want a cam similar to these, with 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers
www.summitracing.com

Crane Cams 119661 Crane Hydraulic Roller Camshafts | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Crane Hydraulic Roller Camshafts with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Camshafts at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

crower.com

Chevrolet Hydraulic Roller Camshaft

Chevrolet - 262, 267, 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350 & 400Performance level 4 - High Lift - Street/strip applications, rough idle, 2500 stall required.INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 236°/240° RR: 1.5/1.5 Gross Lift: .555”/.559” LSA: 110° RPM: 2400 to 6000 Redline: 6500
crower.com crower.com


the much better " FIRST"tuned port intake is the best tpi intake available matched to decent aftermarket heads,
a "first"tuned port intake and a decent roller cam like a crower 00471 cam and 1.6:1 ratio roller rocker and similar headers, FAR exceeds that video, builds potential, reading links and sub links takes effort but its sure to save you a bunch of cash and wasted time :like:

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-stock-tpi-engine-components.1509/#post-74581

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...o-flow-firsts-tpi-intake-etc.1052/#post-37127

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rger-intake-runners-l98-tpi.13785/#post-70716

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ideal-tpi-build.12203/#post-59273

R

Post in thread 'tpi 383 build/ cam etc'

Interesting, you seem to say all my years of reading and research was wrong, or are you talking to the Hot Rodder that may want to build a hot 383??

From everything I have seen and read points to the best way for me to move a heavy G20 Van is with torque, torque IS the real moving force, otherwise why do the call a TORQUE CONVERTOR a TORQUE CONVERTOR??

And you suggests a 3200 RPM Stall Convertor…why?? Because that way you’re running the engine at its peak torque.

Same reason for 6, 8,9, and 10 speed transmissions, to allow the engine to be at its torque peek at nearly every speed.

What...

Grumpy

Post in thread 'The Inevitable Build Thread'

sim #3 crane 119661, profiler and the dual plane intake looks to be the winner.
if Im reading it correctly it shows about 475 tq from 4000rpm-5000rpm, and maybe 467 hp at 6000rpm
VS
about 475 tq from 3500rpm-4500rpm,and maybe 430hp at 5500rpm
but theres near a 50ft lb and 75hp potential positive difference in power at 6000 rpm with that SIM #3 vs the howard 110245-12 cam

you have options, just think through your choices

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-you-get-there-with-tpi.10494/#post-44299

https://garage.grumpysperformance.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fimg1.wsimg.com%2Fisteam%2Fip%2Fcb4628e2-2275-4101-ab0a-fb8ad1325397%2Fe9266c43-05b3-49ab-ac3d-2c94159b3298.jpg&hash=f500fa501d0f6baa7155d1194eb968db
 
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Grumpy

Post in thread '1986 iron head l98 corvette valve spring question'

the CASTING #642 cross fire heads and even most fuelie heads, and all the TPI heads, are compared to today's better designed cylinder heads... well they are pathetically restrictive,
I would strongly suggest you select an aluminum cylinder head (with at least a 190cc and 200 cc port is better in most cases,that flows a MINIMUM of 250 cfm at .500 lift, and ideally more than 275cfm at .700)
TRICKFLOW
http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.asp? ... 4294867081
http://www.trickflow.com/customerservice
1-330-630-1555 • 1-888-841-6556

BRODIX...

Grumpy

Post in thread 'just how restrictive are the stock TPI engine components?'

A 305ci Engine Makes Big Horsepower Using a TorqStorm Supercharger
Any Port In The Storm: TPI gets boost
Richard Holdener Jan 5, 2018

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...-big-horsepower-using-torqstorm-supercharger/
View Full Gallery
Old-timers who were around back during the original muscle car era will look back longingly on the engines that ruled the streets then: the 290hp 302...

grumpyvette

Post in thread '86 C4 starts, runs, rough idles and sometimes stalls'

the search feature, is always an option here, on this site, but to save time , look at the sub links in these threads, to find sources for replacement electrical connectors, and NAPA can frequently ORDER replacement connectors for repairs at about 3- 5 times the cost youll find them at else ware, but at times getting the part the next day beats waiting a week so the price may be justified. if its a connector thats likely to break frequently buy extras, and have them handy
jktucker92 said:
There are books written out there that can give you the advantages / disadvantages of each system, but I'll...
Click to expand...

grumpyvette

Post in thread 'a well designed c4 exhaust'

NANCY said:
What is the stock stall speed for a '85 Corvette 700R4?
and what can I do to boost the responsiveness, or way it responds when I jump on it without throwing huge amounts of cash into the project? Thanks,
Click to expand...

most early TPI stock converters on stock TPI engines stall at about 1900-2000rpm,the stock TPI intake,manifold design , while very effective at producing low speed torque, is very restrictive to air flow above about 4500rpm as it was designed for a 305 displacement engine originally, and the cylinder heads, cam and exhaust are all very restrictive to air flow over 4000rpm, and...

Grumpy

Post in thread 'Ideal TPI Build?'

yes, I'm all too aware that good performance parts are expensive and yes over time the technology does improve, the FIRST INTAKE is vastly superior to the stock TPI intake and certainly a big step up from the ported TPI, but remember its a combo of parts, and the CYLINDER HEADS are also a MAJOR FLOW RESTRICTION TO AIR FLOW RATES, the CAM and headers and exhaust system also contribute,
porting the stock heads and intake in my experience is basically wasted effort and money compared to the FIRST INTAKE AND BETTER HEADS NOW AVAILABLE
to get a huge seat of the pants boost in power that you...

Grumpy

Post in thread 'do you need a dual 58mm throttle body on your TPI?'

COMMON SBC INTAKE PORTS
felpro # 1204=Port Size: 1.23" x 1.99"=2.448 sq inches

felpro # 1205=Port Size: 1.28" x 2.09"=2.67 sq inches

felpro # 1206=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1207=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.28"=3.146 sq inches

felpro # 1209=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.38"=3.28 sq inches

felpro # 1255 VORTEC=Port Size: 1.08" x 2.16"-2.33 sq inches

felpro # 1263=Port Size: 1.31" x 2.02"=2.65 sq inches

felpro # 1266=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1284 LT1=Port Size: 1.25 x 2.04''=2.55 sq inches

felpro # 1289 FASTBURN=Port Size: 1.30" x 2.31" 3.00 sq...

Grumpy

Post in thread 'tips on building a TPI 383 C4'

Engine Building Basics
SPECIAL! THANKS TO JOHN ERB CHIEF ENGINEER AT UNITED ENGINES
There isn't a universal set of rules that govern all engine building. The following is information that has worked successfully and should be considered when building a performance engine.

A high performance race engine, by its definition, indicates that limits are going to be pushed. The limit that is of most concern, as far as pistons are concerned, is peak operating cylinder pressure. Maximizing cylinder pressure benefits horsepower and fuel economy. Considering the potential...
 
As of now, the setup is:
427 ci sbc
Aluminum pro 1 230 heads, pocket ported
10.25:1 static compression
First intake, 1.875” runner diameter, 90mm throttle body
1 3/4 longtube headers
E38 ecm/6L80 w/6L90 converter/3.23 gears

I’m looking at a 224/232 duration cam as of now to run with it.

If I can gain more up top, then great. I just don’t want to do it at the expense of performance down low.
 
with that displacement Id think adding a bit more duration and 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers with something like a
crower.com

Chevrolet Hydraulic Roller Camshaft

Chevrolet - 262, 267, 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350 & 400Performance level 4 - High Lift - Street/strip applications, rough idle, 2500 stall required.INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 236°/240° RR: 1.5/1.5 Gross Lift: .555”/.559” LSA: 110° RPM: 2400 to 6000 Redline: 6500
crower.com crower.com
would result in a noticeable across the almost full rpm/power band improvement
perhaps RICK can be persuaded to compare that 224/232 duration cam to the crower 00471 used with 1.6:1 roller rockers on a software dyno chart comparison???
can you post the compression ratio, head flow numbers and anything else RICK might find helpful?????
as hes FAR more skilled at using that software than I AM.
(personally I'd expect a noticeable boost in the power/tq from about 3000rpm-6000 rpm,
with the marginally longer duration cam.)
 
The info that I need is listed below.

Dynomation 6 Input Variables

- Bore & Stroke:
- Displacement: cubic inches
- Rod Length:
- Heads Make/Model with flow numbers: Flow (CFM) at several lift points.
- Combustion Chamber Size in CC’s:
- Dome Volume: For a domed piston use a (-) negative number.
- Valve Relief Volume: For a piston with valve reliefs or dish, use a (+) - positive number.
- Deck Clearance: (Piston to Block Surface)
- Head Gasket Bore: (You can add .050 to th cylinder bore if you don't know)
- Head Gasket Thickness:
- Valve Sizes Intake/Exhaust:
- Intake Manifold Type: [Single or Dual Plane] Manufacture/Model #:
- Carburetor Size or EFI (CFM):
- Blower/Turbo Make/Model:
- Belt Ratio:
- Header Tube Diameter: 1-5/8", 1-3/4", 1-7/8", 2.0" ()Shorty or Full Length)
- Cam Part Number:
- Cam Specs: Post Cam Card or post all 8 valve timing events at seat-to-seat and at 0.050” plus - lobe lift or valve lift.
- Lobe Lift
- Rocker Ratio - Intake/Exhaust:
- Cam Installed per Cam Card, or Retarded or Advanced:
- Fuel Used: Gasoline (Octane ?), Methanol, Ethanol, E85 .....
.
 
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