I've used at least a dozen different shot guns in areas requiring shotgun only hunting,
with the introduction of shotguns like the SAVAGE bolt actions with rifled barrels this is not nearly the handicap it used to be!
in some areas shotgun use is mandated because it significantly reduces the range any projectile can travel that misses the intended target, thus at least in theory reducing the danger of unintended hits on unintended targets
now given the option I prefer a rifle for larger game, but in many areas its shotgun only being allowed,check the rules carefully they tend to change and in some shotgun only areas HANDGUN HUNTING IS ALSO LEGAL
and I've had mixed results, now if you've ever been limited too using a scatter gun on deer,
you know buckshot loses most of its effectiveness past about 35 yards, yes that does vary with the gauge, shot diameter and choke
but 35 yards is about max on your average shotgun... test yours to get a better idea.
and slugs need to be used past that short range.
yes you can wound and rarely kill deer with random lethal hits using buckshot,
if your pattern just occasionally throws the buckshot just right, but past about 35 yards its rarely effectively lethal.
if you doubt this place a full sheet of blank typing paper horizontally on a plywood backer , tape or staple then start
by using your favorite buckshot firing a single shell at 35 yards, mark your hits with a magic marker, then back off 5 more yards and try again, repeat adding 5 yards distance after each shot, at the distance if your not putting at least 5 of the 00 buck on that paper ( about 50% of that 9-12 buckshot in the shell) your out of effective lethal range as that sheet of typing paper is larger than most deer's,
chest's vital area especially if your not getting a standing broadside shot!
use of buckshot past about 35 yards is a sure way to have wounded deer running off and dying unrecovered minutes, hours or days later.
I started with a mossberg 500 pump
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_500
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
http://kwk.us/twist.html
https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifling_twist_rate.htm
compare your shotgun or rifle or handgun twist rate to the calculated ideal twist rate
which at least in my case , repeatedly had small parts break, it broke the safety button,several times, and had numerous other problems,
(I gave that one away for FREE to a friend)
Id AVOID buying or using THAT SHOTGUN
if you step back mentally and analyze, what your trying to accomplish and under what conditions your trying to do so it helps.
In my opinion buckshot limits your range too much too be a valid and useful ammo, choice, for deer hunting.
double 00 buck shot's potentially devastating at under 30-35 yards, but both energy and ever increasing projectile spread causes lethality too rapidly drop off past that distance.
an accurate slug gun with a rifled barrel can MUCH more than triple a shotguns effective reach over the best buckshot loading's.
THIS SAVAGE IS AN EXCELLENT and reliable and accurate SHOT GUN
these bolt action shotguns have rifled bore designed to stabilize slugs
I think thats the reason (LOWER RECOIL) that I've heard,most people select the 20 ga either gauge works in well practiced hands
and a high quality lower power scope can be very helpful.
I own the 12 ga version, and most of my friends have purchased the 12 ga version, but from what I've read the 20 ga seems to be more popular
if you hand-load the lyman slugs seem to work rather well, if you select the loads that provide the higher velocitys,, loads that push the velocity up as they stabilize the 20 ga version best at the faster velocity levels in several of my friends experience
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...g-bullet-mold-20-gauge-576-diameter-350-grain
btw
12 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .729 inches. 16 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .662 inches. 20 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .615 inches. 28 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .550 inches.
if you notice the 58 caliber mini ball mold cast projectile, has the correct diameter to be loaded in a 20 ga plastic shot cup in a 20 ga too effectively work as a slug
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...3-58-caliber-575-diameter-510-grain-new-style
this does not seem to be an issue with the 12 ga version,keep in mind these slugs are loaded inside a plastic shot-cup,
that compresses and grips the slug, and rifling, in the shotguns bore,
(if its a rifled bore designed for slugs)
as its forced down the bore, the slug itself never touches the shotgun bores rifling , which acts as a sabot thats discarded as it leaves the bore.
you can buy a mold and cast your own at a considerable cost savings if you reload.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...g-bullet-mold-12-gauge-681-diameter-525-grain
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/212
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_slug_gun.htm
if your restricted to shotgun only areas , your not in as bad shapes as you might at first think!
these rifled slug guns do a really good job on deer out to about 140 yards,
(in experienced and practiced hands, and assuming good ammo)
my late uncle, used his savage slug gun to kill several large black bears,
and while the average range was under 75 yards he stated it slammed them so hard they rarely did more than spin, fall and twitch
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0152654112
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....y-shotgun-mould-sabot-slug-12-gauge-525-grain
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...g-bullet-mold-12-gauge-681-diameter-525-grain
keep in mind these slugs are loaded inside a plastic shot-cup,
that compresses and grips the slug, and rifling, in the shotguns bore,
(if its a rifled bore designed for slugs)
as its forced down the bore, the slug itself never touches the shotgun bores rifling , which acts as a sabot thats discarded as it leaves the bore.
you can buy a mold and cast your own at a considerable cost savings if you reload.
This is load data for the 525 Gr. Lyman Sabot Slug. Its tough to format for the forum but the list reads of follows.
Powder Charge Primer Wad Velocity Pressure
Federal Gold Medal
Univ. Clays 36.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1503 10,100
WSF 34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 11,300
Herco 32.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1389 11,100
SR 4756 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1585 10,500
800X 31.5 Fed 209AWAA12 1459 10,700
Blue Dot 46.5 Win 209 WAA12R 1544 9,900
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1429 10,700
Federal Plastic Hunting
Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442 9,300
34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1421 9,200
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1297 9,100
SR 4756 40.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1439 8,300
800X 30.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1403 9,800
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1408 7,300
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1405 9,900
Fiocchi Plastic
Univ. Clays 34.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1478 10,100
WSF 31.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1383 10,000
SR 4756 37.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1396 8,700
N3SH 36.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1486 9,700
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1476 8,800
Remington RTL (Premier)
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1386 10,800
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1269 11,100
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12 1249 11,300
SR 4756 34.0 Rem 209PWAA12R 1448 11,100
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1462 10,900
Blue Dot 41.0 Rem 209PWAA12F114 1475 11,000
Blue Dot 43.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1501 11,200
Remington Unibody SP
Univ. Clays 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1416 9,900
WSF 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1434 11,400
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12 1336 10,600
SR 4756 37.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1468 10,200
800X 31.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1440 10,700
Blue Dot 45.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 9,300
Blue Dot 46.0 Win 209 Fed 12S4 1532 10,600
Winchester AA
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1358 9,700
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1271 11,100
Unique 22.5 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1231 10,500
WSF 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1393 11,000
WSF 28.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1332 10,500
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1273 10,900
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1378 8,800
N3SH 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1372 10,100
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200
I swapped to an Ithaca pump 12 ga and had that work really well for close in brush hunts , WITH BUCKSHOT BUT WAS NOT GOOD WITH SLUGS SO IT LIMITED THE RANGE IT WAS EFFECTIVE TO ABOUT 35 YARDS
but it was not until I swapped to a H&K super 90
http://remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/benelli/m1s90.htm
that I found a really effective semi auto shot gun, that thru both buckshot and slugs reasonably well, but I eventually bought a SAVAGE bolt action with a rifled barrel, designed for slugs, (useless for buck shot)
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_slug_gun.htm
I can recommend the savage 12 ga model 210, its what Ive found to be a very accurate slug gun with a decent 4x scope,
try to find one in 12 ga even if its used but in good condition, a sabot slug can be very effective in these guns. in 12 ga., but the standard foster slugs don,t tend to be all that accurate in my experience
with a rifled barrel that shot slugs accurately to over 100 yards, once Id sighted in a good 2.5x leopold scope, I felt really well armed.
what have YOU used?
with the introduction of shotguns like the SAVAGE bolt actions with rifled barrels this is not nearly the handicap it used to be!
in some areas shotgun use is mandated because it significantly reduces the range any projectile can travel that misses the intended target, thus at least in theory reducing the danger of unintended hits on unintended targets
now given the option I prefer a rifle for larger game, but in many areas its shotgun only being allowed,check the rules carefully they tend to change and in some shotgun only areas HANDGUN HUNTING IS ALSO LEGAL
and I've had mixed results, now if you've ever been limited too using a scatter gun on deer,
you know buckshot loses most of its effectiveness past about 35 yards, yes that does vary with the gauge, shot diameter and choke
but 35 yards is about max on your average shotgun... test yours to get a better idea.
and slugs need to be used past that short range.
yes you can wound and rarely kill deer with random lethal hits using buckshot,
if your pattern just occasionally throws the buckshot just right, but past about 35 yards its rarely effectively lethal.
if you doubt this place a full sheet of blank typing paper horizontally on a plywood backer , tape or staple then start
by using your favorite buckshot firing a single shell at 35 yards, mark your hits with a magic marker, then back off 5 more yards and try again, repeat adding 5 yards distance after each shot, at the distance if your not putting at least 5 of the 00 buck on that paper ( about 50% of that 9-12 buckshot in the shell) your out of effective lethal range as that sheet of typing paper is larger than most deer's,
chest's vital area especially if your not getting a standing broadside shot!
use of buckshot past about 35 yards is a sure way to have wounded deer running off and dying unrecovered minutes, hours or days later.
I started with a mossberg 500 pump
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_500
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
http://kwk.us/twist.html
https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifling_twist_rate.htm
compare your shotgun or rifle or handgun twist rate to the calculated ideal twist rate
(I gave that one away for FREE to a friend)
Id AVOID buying or using THAT SHOTGUN
if you step back mentally and analyze, what your trying to accomplish and under what conditions your trying to do so it helps.
In my opinion buckshot limits your range too much too be a valid and useful ammo, choice, for deer hunting.
double 00 buck shot's potentially devastating at under 30-35 yards, but both energy and ever increasing projectile spread causes lethality too rapidly drop off past that distance.
an accurate slug gun with a rifled barrel can MUCH more than triple a shotguns effective reach over the best buckshot loading's.
THIS SAVAGE IS AN EXCELLENT and reliable and accurate SHOT GUN
these bolt action shotguns have rifled bore designed to stabilize slugs

I think thats the reason (LOWER RECOIL) that I've heard,most people select the 20 ga either gauge works in well practiced hands
and a high quality lower power scope can be very helpful.
I own the 12 ga version, and most of my friends have purchased the 12 ga version, but from what I've read the 20 ga seems to be more popular
if you hand-load the lyman slugs seem to work rather well, if you select the loads that provide the higher velocitys,, loads that push the velocity up as they stabilize the 20 ga version best at the faster velocity levels in several of my friends experience
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...g-bullet-mold-20-gauge-576-diameter-350-grain

btw
12 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .729 inches. 16 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .662 inches. 20 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .615 inches. 28 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .550 inches.
if you notice the 58 caliber mini ball mold cast projectile, has the correct diameter to be loaded in a 20 ga plastic shot cup in a 20 ga too effectively work as a slug
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...3-58-caliber-575-diameter-510-grain-new-style
this does not seem to be an issue with the 12 ga version,keep in mind these slugs are loaded inside a plastic shot-cup,
that compresses and grips the slug, and rifling, in the shotguns bore,
(if its a rifled bore designed for slugs)
as its forced down the bore, the slug itself never touches the shotgun bores rifling , which acts as a sabot thats discarded as it leaves the bore.
you can buy a mold and cast your own at a considerable cost savings if you reload.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...g-bullet-mold-12-gauge-681-diameter-525-grain


http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/212
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_slug_gun.htm
if your restricted to shotgun only areas , your not in as bad shapes as you might at first think!
these rifled slug guns do a really good job on deer out to about 140 yards,
(in experienced and practiced hands, and assuming good ammo)
my late uncle, used his savage slug gun to kill several large black bears,
and while the average range was under 75 yards he stated it slammed them so hard they rarely did more than spin, fall and twitch
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0152654112
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....y-shotgun-mould-sabot-slug-12-gauge-525-grain
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...g-bullet-mold-12-gauge-681-diameter-525-grain

keep in mind these slugs are loaded inside a plastic shot-cup,
that compresses and grips the slug, and rifling, in the shotguns bore,
(if its a rifled bore designed for slugs)
as its forced down the bore, the slug itself never touches the shotgun bores rifling , which acts as a sabot thats discarded as it leaves the bore.
you can buy a mold and cast your own at a considerable cost savings if you reload.


This is load data for the 525 Gr. Lyman Sabot Slug. Its tough to format for the forum but the list reads of follows.
Powder Charge Primer Wad Velocity Pressure
Federal Gold Medal
Univ. Clays 36.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1503 10,100
WSF 34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 11,300
Herco 32.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1389 11,100
SR 4756 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1585 10,500
800X 31.5 Fed 209AWAA12 1459 10,700
Blue Dot 46.5 Win 209 WAA12R 1544 9,900
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1429 10,700
Federal Plastic Hunting
Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442 9,300
34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1421 9,200
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1297 9,100
SR 4756 40.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1439 8,300
800X 30.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1403 9,800
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1408 7,300
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1405 9,900
Fiocchi Plastic
Univ. Clays 34.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1478 10,100
WSF 31.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1383 10,000
SR 4756 37.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1396 8,700
N3SH 36.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1486 9,700
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1476 8,800
Remington RTL (Premier)
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1386 10,800
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1269 11,100
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12 1249 11,300
SR 4756 34.0 Rem 209PWAA12R 1448 11,100
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1462 10,900
Blue Dot 41.0 Rem 209PWAA12F114 1475 11,000
Blue Dot 43.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1501 11,200
Remington Unibody SP
Univ. Clays 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1416 9,900
WSF 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1434 11,400
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12 1336 10,600
SR 4756 37.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1468 10,200
800X 31.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1440 10,700
Blue Dot 45.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 9,300
Blue Dot 46.0 Win 209 Fed 12S4 1532 10,600
Winchester AA
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1358 9,700
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1271 11,100
Unique 22.5 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1231 10,500
WSF 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1393 11,000
WSF 28.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1332 10,500
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1273 10,900
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1378 8,800
N3SH 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1372 10,100
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200
I swapped to an Ithaca pump 12 ga and had that work really well for close in brush hunts , WITH BUCKSHOT BUT WAS NOT GOOD WITH SLUGS SO IT LIMITED THE RANGE IT WAS EFFECTIVE TO ABOUT 35 YARDS
but it was not until I swapped to a H&K super 90
http://remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/benelli/m1s90.htm
that I found a really effective semi auto shot gun, that thru both buckshot and slugs reasonably well, but I eventually bought a SAVAGE bolt action with a rifled barrel, designed for slugs, (useless for buck shot)
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_slug_gun.htm
I can recommend the savage 12 ga model 210, its what Ive found to be a very accurate slug gun with a decent 4x scope,
try to find one in 12 ga even if its used but in good condition, a sabot slug can be very effective in these guns. in 12 ga., but the standard foster slugs don,t tend to be all that accurate in my experience
with a rifled barrel that shot slugs accurately to over 100 yards, once Id sighted in a good 2.5x leopold scope, I felt really well armed.
what have YOU used?
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