Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

[87vette81big]

Great, thanks for the info Looks like I have to go external balanced to get 5.7" rods...? Is that going to cause me any issues. Its about $70-80 cheaper..

Absolutely none.
Ford Engines like 302 &460 are external balanced.
Big Chevy is external balanced .

This project of yours must keep in mind total costs.
Its a Big car.
Chevy had the 427 optional for a reason.

Small Block Chevy is almost dead here in the USA since Hellcats came out.
Just Big Blocks from Chevy and Pontiac can compete and win.
LS X guys are realizing they can't win without huge Funds on hand.
$30,000 +.

 

[mathd]

I run 5.7 rod with internal balance SBC 010 block.
It can be done its just a bit more work to internal balance with 5.7 rods.

 

[Indycars]

9000 cast crank, 6" rods, hyper pistons, int balance kit# 1-90450BI or
9000 cast crank, 6" rods, forged pistons, int balance kit# 1-90455BI

Either kit will do nicely, but like you said for $60 I would get the forged pistons. Others are
saying 5.7 inch rods and externally balanced..... If I have to decide between 5.7 rods/Ext Bal
and 6.0 rod/Int Bal, I would go with the later. My reason would be if you have to replace the
flex plate or harmonic balancer, then you will NOT have to completely tear down the motor
for a new balancing job with replacement item. With internal balancing you just neutral balance
the replacement item and install.

Do I have the correct kits for the 400 or so Hp I'm chasing?

Yes, if you are talking about 5500 rpm or less with the cast crank. If you get a forged crank now,
then you won't need to replace it if later you decide to go higher rpm and HP.

I'm OK with a longer time line if it makesthe difference between a build I'm proud to drive and a disappointing finished product.

I think you have nothing to worry about here, from everything you said I can see you building a
FINE motor you can be proud of with what ever you decide.

I love the videos.. "Oh well..... Take one..."

Damn neutral safety switch! hehehehe!!!

 

[87vette81big]

Ran the 1/4 Mile race math on Wallace Racing Site.
12.99 ET.
108 Mph Trap Speed.
4400 pound Impala 4-door weight with driver.
ET Requires 396.75 Flywheel HP
Mph requires 444 Flywheel HP.

According to Grumpy the Production SBC Is at it block strength limits 425-450-500 HP.
Aftermarket Dart Little M Block should be used.

When You look at the entire picture...
Its Krazy Insane to dump $8000-10,000 cash into a SBC Just to run 12's.
Likely won't. No one makes Big tube Race headers at $400-500 bucks for a SBC Impala Bel Air.

No need for forged Pistons and Crank.
Block will fail long before then.

Scat 9000 crank is rated to 500 Hp.
Keith Blacks too at least 500-550 Hp.

 

[87vette81big]

Build this engine at 3,000-4,000 total cost . No more. Just not worth it.

You can have a Big Block Chevy,
Pontiac 455 & Olds 425-455 .
Go Way Faster for much less Money $$&&$$.

 

[mathd]

There has to be a plus to building a 12's sbc for 10k$.
I still did'nt find it.. i hope its reliability. Or because its alot of fun to drive.

Or we must stop convicing ourself that a BBC is cheaper to build correctly.
Almost everyone on this forum has a SBC. there has to be a reason.(and it was probably worth it)

 

[87vette81big]

There has to be a plus to building a 12's sbc for 10k$.
I still did'nt find it.. i hope its reliability. Or because its alot of fun to drive.

Or we must stop convicing ourself that a BBC is cheaper to build correctly.
Almost everyone on this forum has a SBC. there has to be a reason.(and it was probably worth it)

If your $10-12k SBC Has a Roots GMC Super Charger on Top poking through the hood its Ok.

Jimmy is Young. Think back when you were his age. Did you have $10,000 Cash ?

 

[mathd]

If your $10-12k SBC Has a Roots GMC Super Charger on Top poking through the hood its Ok.

Jimmy is Young. Think back when you were his age. Did you have $10,000 Cash ?

Yeah i think your right .
I can tell one thing after building the stroker SBC. it's really not disappointing(expensive but).

Yes, i did . But now am broke has hell.
Camaro is now a garage queen, not taking her out this summer(out of cash for oil change, gas and need to fix a few more thing)..
I want to pull the engine out this summer, have to remove 2 badly broken oil pan bolt(overtorqued + broken bolt extractor inside yay), its been 4 years now... Don't know what am waiting for(maby courage).
Don't know why but when i stop working on the car for a while and return, every little task sound like a big deal.

 

[87vette81big]

Don't think about it too Hard Mathieu .
Just get in and get it done.
Find a sidejob or 2 or 3.
Get paid cash $$$.

 

[JimmyDuncan]

I am going to try to rein in my expectations and go for a fun durable build. Whether I hit a certain HP number or ET will be secondary to that.. I'll try not to scrimp on the important things and take my time

I'll still go and take it for a few runs on occasion and no doubt Frank will be a work in progress, with needing a new trans and rear end also... then there will be upgrades on handling.... Ha!

I'm really looking forward to building the engine! and having you guys along for the process

 

[JimmyDuncan]

Carburetor...? So I know it'll be great to have a nice new carb for the new build. The Speed Demon that Grumpy recommended looks great and isn't a bad price..

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-1901/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/dem-1904/overview/

I'm wondering though, what options are as good or close to it? If I can pick up a used carb in the time between now and having the engine built what others could I consider?

Is a good condition used carb or a rebuild used carb going to work without being one of those ruin the combo trying to save $$ deals?

For example I saw this go for $225AUD the other day on eBay..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holley-7...RI3A7DvMH2A4axgGP3Prw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holley-7...RI3A7DvMH2A4axgGP3Prw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Would something like that work for me?

What are some options that I could keep an eye out for on eBay? Carbs that are functional used and/or rebuilt?

I have a Quadrajet that came with Grimy that's in need of a rebuild.... could that be a potential option? Or should I just sell it?

 

[Grumpy]

quadrajets can be decent carbs, when they run correctly, but getting one to run correctly or finding parts for some models can be a huge P.i.t.A. so its been my experience that if theres a viable option like the HOLLEY OR DEMON, the q-jets best put on a shelf.
personally Ive had a great deal of positive experience with holleys but if I was building the car Id opt for the NEW demon

 

[JimmyDuncan]

quadrajets can be decent carbs, when they run correctly, but getting one to run correctly or finding parts for some models can be a huge P.i.t.A. so its been my experience that if theres a viable option like the HOLLEY OR DEMON, the q-jets best put on a shelf.
personally Ive had a great deal of positive experience with holleys but if I was building the car Id opt for the NEW demon

Ok thanks.

I've read quite a few times people mentioning that the Quadrajets are a good carb if tuned properly... So, you're probably right that something more new car guy friendly might be the ticket... I'll try to sell the quadrajet..

I've not seen many Demon carbs over here in Oz (none used) and they are approx $530AUD to my door from Summit. I could have picked up a used Holley for $225AUD the other day.. So, I guess I'll make some decisions based on the budget as I go... I'll keep an eye out and get you guys thoughts on any deal that comes up

 

[Indycars]

The thing about a used carb is the great price, but it might also be modified. Such as
drilling out a passage. So there are some risks when buying used. You can reduce that
risk by buying something that is running on an engine when you buy it, but that's not
a guarantee either.

 

[87vette81big]

The only Q-jets really wortwhile tinkering with are from Pontiac & Olds V8 engines.
The 1968-74 Pontiac Q-jets are Best.
Olds V8 from 1968-74 Good too.

I think 472-500 Cadillac Q-jets may be decent. Upon examination on the internet they lack the more exotic idle circuits and air bypass holes of Pontiac V8 Q-jets.
Its required for Hotter than stock Camshafts.
Q-jet still delivers best overall throttle response and Mileage.
They do require tinkering .

Just got my 1966 Olds 425 Q-jet in.
Fleabay find. Its an odd early beast.
But the Factory Metering parts are there.
Checked my notes and all is correct.
Baseline to start with.
May use metering parts in a Pontiac V8 1970 455 Q-jet. 7040262.
The guys have found out how good Pontiac Q-jets are.
This carb is worth $700 now.
Kinda shocked. More than I payed for my Complete 1970 Bonneville Convertible 455 360 HP & 500 FT/LBS Rated Engine in 2007.

 

[JimmyDuncan]

The thing about a used carb is the great price, but it might also be modified. Such as
drilling out a passage. So there are some risks when buying used. You can reduce that
risk by buying something that is running on an engine when you buy it, but that's not
a guarantee either.

That's a good point... I'll keep that in mind.

 

[JimmyDuncan]

The only Q-jets really wortwhile tinkering with are from Pontiac & Olds V8 engines.
The 1968-74 Pontiac Q-jets are Best.
Olds V8 from 1968-74 Good too.

I think 472-500 Cadillac Q-jets may be decent. Upon examination on the internet they lack the more exotic idle circuits and air bypass holes of Pontiac V8 Q-jets.
Its required for Hotter than stock Camshafts.
Q-jet still delivers best overall throttle response and Mileage.
They do require tinkering .

Just got my 1966 Olds 425 Q-jet in.
Fleabay find. Its an odd early beast.
But the Factory Metering parts are there.
Checked my notes and all is correct.
Baseline to start with.
May use metering parts in a Pontiac V8 1970 455 Q-jet. 7040262.
The guys have found out how good Pontiac Q-jets are.
This carb is worth $700 now.
Kinda shocked. More than I payed for my Complete 1970 Bonneville Convertible 455 360 HP & 500 FT/LBS Rated Engine in 2007.

Don't like my chances finding (or recognising) a Pontiac or olds Qjet over here..

 

[87vette81big]

Don't like my chances finding (or recognising) a Pontiac or olds Qjet over here..

I started off like You Jimmy.
No money. $.
Pontiac V8 was the cheapest in 1987.
Looked around .
Free and $50 bucks just more inviting at the time.
All local Chevy guys went Bankrupt.
Literally .
I am still here with my Poncho Pontiacs.

 

[Indycars]

I wanted to see how the Crane Cam 110911 would work with the Brodix IK180 compared
to the IK200. I was surprised at first that the IK180's produced better numbers for both
torque and HP until I examined the flow numbers. The IK 180 actually flows better than
the IK200 up to valve lift of .400. That coupled with the camshaft max lift is .460/.480

This camshaft would never have the valve open wide enough to ever take advantage of the
better flow at .500" of lift. Component Compatibility is key again to having a successful
engine combination.





Is there another camshaft you would like to see Jimmy, just provide a link to the cam card???

.

 

[grumpyvette]

try a crane 110921 with 10.5:1 compression and those IK 200 with long tube open headers and a air gap intake with the 750 cfm holley/demon carb, and 1.6:1 rockers, with the cam strait up or retarded 4 degrees
matched to a 3000rpm stall converter and 3.73:1 rear gear it makes even a heavy car move a bit better