Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

[Grumpy]

most guys don,t realize how many times it comes in very, VERY handy to have a few local friends, especially if they are rather experienced!
and it sure helps if they have a selection of tools and are willing to help, so in most cases its to your benefit to help as many of those local guys as you can, to gain both experience and access too tools you might not otherwise have.
None of us has even 10% of the skills to do everything thats required on a top quality car build, obviously skills and levels of experience from setting up a rear differential,setting up brakes, transmission rebuilds, differential shortening,metal panel replacement, paint and body work,engine builds,tuning, suspension set-up welding , etc.

 

[JimmyDuncan]

most guys don,t realize how many times it comes in very, VERY handy to have a few local friends, especially if they are rather experienced!
and it sure helps if they have a selection of tools and are willing to help, so in most cases its to your benefit to help as many of those local guys as you can, to gain both experience and access too tools you might not otherwise have.
None of us has even 10% of the skills to do everything thats required on a top quality car build, obviously skills and levels of experience from setting up a rear differential,setting up brakes, transmission rebuilds, differential shortening,metal panel replacement, paint and body work,engine builds,tuning, suspension set-up welding , etc.

Yeah, for sure!

Being so new to the engine building/car resto game... I need all the help I can get..! I've always loved old school cars and my dad was a mechanic up until a few years after I was born. He sold his Chev pickup that was on the cover of an early New Zealand Hotrod magazine, to get a sensible car that had room for a child in the back..... So, its in the family. My little brother has an RX7 that shocked me how fast it went...

But, having not grown up here in Australia and spending the last 4-5 years hanging out with triathletes (who are a fairly un-mechanically minded bunch) I have the wrong sort of friends for working on cars.. ha! So, I have to start building a new bunch of friends... As a mid 30s year old, with work and kids taking up time, making new friends is not easy...

Yes, I'll definitely offer my help to anyone that wants it.. That's a great idea.

 

[JimmyDuncan]

A thought came to mind... A question..

When I take the block to the machine shop, I'm going to get them to clean it, check it for cracks, remove the last few plugs, and the cam bearings... and tell me what will need to be done to the cylinders (hopefully a hone or bore to 40 over..). I'll then order the rotating assembly and get the rest of the machine work done. I noticed that on the build threads I've read that it seemed common to have to re-replace the cam bearings near the end of the build, because they inadvertently get a few scratches... ?

Can I get the block prepped as I listed above, but leave the old cam bearings in place..? use the old cam and bearings for all the clearancing and block prep, then get them taken out and replaced later in the rebuild? Or, is that a bad idea..? Just a thought..

 

[Grumpy]

ideally when they clean the block they remove ALL freeze plugs and oil passage plugs and verify the bore diameters are consistent, verify the bore wall thickness and pressure wash the block, verify the deck is square and line hone the crank journals if its required this SHOULD be done AFTER the cam bearings are removed, so those cam bearings must be removed to carefully clean all the oil passages.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sbc-cylinder-wall-thickness.7646/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...eventing-engine-block-main-cap-movement.6162/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/checking-blocks-heads-for-cracks.3363/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/grinding-block-for-stroker-assembly.2855/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-freeze-plugs.281/


CYLINDER HEAD PORTING AND BLOCK CLEARANCING
I'm glad to help where I can

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-tools-abrasives-sources.10683/#post-46209

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/page-3#post-27245

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/air-die-grinders.1831/#post-4763

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/carb-intake-test.58/#post-49542

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...olishing-combustion-chambers.2630/#post-48319

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...obvious-but-obviously-is-not.8485/#post-39276

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/#post-38054

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-by-step-guide-with-pictures.5378/#post-32456

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
RELATED LINKS

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=428&sid=51f4ab8721f2eef9fbbe21c5d23203cf

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7722

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=741

 

[JimmyDuncan]

ideally when they clean the block they remove ALL freeze plugs and oil passage plugs and verify the bore diameters are consistent, verify the bore wall thickness and pressure wash the block, verify the deck is square and line hone the crank journals if its required this SHOULD be done AFTER the cam bearings are removed, so those cam bearings must be removed to carefully clean all the oil passages.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sbc-cylinder-wall-thickness.7646/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...eventing-engine-block-main-cap-movement.6162/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/checking-blocks-heads-for-cracks.3363/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/grinding-block-for-stroker-assembly.2855/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-freeze-plugs.281/


CYLINDER HEAD PORTING AND BLOCK CLEARANCING
I'm glad to help where I can

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-tools-abrasives-sources.10683/#post-46209

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/page-3#post-27245

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/air-die-grinders.1831/#post-4763

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/carb-intake-test.58/#post-49542

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...olishing-combustion-chambers.2630/#post-48319

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...obvious-but-obviously-is-not.8485/#post-39276

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/#post-38054

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-by-step-guide-with-pictures.5378/#post-32456

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
RELATED LINKS

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=428&sid=51f4ab8721f2eef9fbbe21c5d23203cf

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7722

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=741
/

Ok, understood. Thanks.

I'll read/re-read all those links before I talk to the machine shop

 

[mathd]

You have not done body work yet. Working on the engine is the fun parts(once all the seized stuff are removed).
Body work has its own way at making me go crazy... I did a few heavy hammer blow on a camaro hood that was almost done a few years ago(yes i went completly crazy). that's a little secret i usually don't tell loll.
That looked great too...
It all started with a little bump in the sheetmetal.. and then my shirt getting caught on the hood here and there(because of lack of room to work and a very short timeframe to complete the work). and then me going crazy trying to kill the hood with the hammer...
Sometime its better to take 5 minute for a break.

 

[grumpyvette]

Sometime its better to take 5 minute for a break.

yeah! at times Ive had to walk away from projects for several DAYS just to let the problems mentally sort out and solutions come to mind!
Id say that works about 97% of the time,
but if you do walk away, and keep thinking about it you will generally think of a way to get the work done correctly,
or in rare cases find some one who wants to buy your project car for a good price.
youll sell the car and not only think of a cheap easy way to correct the problem after its sold and gone, youll usually regret selling the car and be mentally kicking yourself for DECADES

 

[Indycars]

Can I get the block prepped as I listed above, but leave the old cam bearings in place..? use the old cam and bearings for all the clearancing and block prep, then get them taken out and replaced later in the rebuild? Or, is that a bad idea..? Just a thought..

It's not hard to install cam bearings, it was my first time to install
them. What if you bought the tool for $32 and reinstalled the old
cam bearings after cleaning and when needed for clearance checking.
Using the same tool, remove the old cam bearings and install the
new ones when it comes time for final assembly.

I saved my new bearings that I trashed just for that reason!

This is the tool I bought, it worked great.

$31.99
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all96470

 

[grumpyvette]

I bought this cam bearing tool decades ago for use in my shop
http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Cams-5312-Bearing-Installation/dp/B000A8MQFY

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-install-tools-install-info.1479/#post-3332

you can fabricate a very good cam bearing instal tool for a great deal less with available collets, large washers and thread rod and a bit of careful measuring
or avoid the hassle and buy the tool RICK linked too and yes it does the job just fine!

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=58

http://www.hawkinsspeedshop.com/tools/camshaft-bearing-tools-installation-removal-with-case-kit.html

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-18000-Universal-Camshaft-Bearing/dp/B0002SQZQ8

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-18040/overview/

 

[JimmyDuncan]

You have not done body work yet. Working on the engine is the fun parts(once all the seized stuff are removed).
Body work has its own way at making me go crazy... I did a few heavy hammer blow on a camaro hood that was almost done a few years ago(yes i went completly crazy). that's a little secret i usually don't tell loll.
That looked great too...
It all started with a little bump in the sheetmetal.. and then my shirt getting caught on the hood here and there(because of lack of room to work and a very short timeframe to complete the work). and then me going crazy trying to kill the hood with the hammer...
Sometime its better to take 5 minute for a break.

Ha! I can imagine a frenzied man beating a poor innocent hood to pulp.... I've always found it funny how we take our anger out on inanimate objects, like we're having some sort of pay back...

I once destroyed the washing line after I didn't duck low enough and it cut my scalp.... Felt stupid afterward when I had to buy a new washing line... I sure showed the washing line who was boss though....

 

[JimmyDuncan]

It's not hard to install cam bearings, it was my first time to install
them. What if you bought the tool for $32 and reinstalled the old
cam bearings after cleaning and when needed for clearance checking.
Using the same tool, remove the old cam bearings and install the
new ones when it comes time for final assembly.

I saved my new bearings that I trashed just for that reason!

This is the tool I bought, it worked great.

$31.99
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all96470
View attachment 5772

Ahh, now that's an idea! Good thinking..

I doubt I'll be able to get a cam tool for that cheap where I am (looks like Summit charges $47 to ship it to me... ), but, I'll look at the price and what it costs to have the bearings installed and decide.. I guess, if I don't destroy all interest I have in rebuilding engines this time around, I'll make the money back in cam bearing installs one day in the future

 

[Grumpy]

a local machine shop can turn you a tool head dirt cheap, a 24" section of thread rod a few nuts and washers and youll have a fully functional tool made locally, at the moment I can,t remember if this is the BBC OR SBC cam bearing tool but 10 minutes with a caliper will sure allow you to get the correct sizes

 

[Indycars]

I doubt I'll be able to get a cam tool for that cheap where I am (looks like Summit charges $47 to ship it to me... ), but, I'll look at the price and what it costs to have the bearings installed and decide.

Just make one out of all thread and a die made at the machine shop
out of steel or aluminum if it's cheaper enough. Suppose you will need
a steel slide hammer to drive with. Wonder if a double nut on the end
and a 3 lb hammer would take the place of the slide hammer. Practice
with the old bearing first.

Save 47 dollars in shipping .... yippppeeeee!

 

[JimmyDuncan]

Just make one out of all thread and a die made at the machine shop
out of steel or aluminum if it's cheaper enough. Suppose you will need
a steel slide hammer to drive with. Wonder if a double nut on the end
and a 3 lb hammer would take the place of the slide hammer. Practice
with the old bearing first.

Save 47 dollars in shipping .... yippppeeeee!

I'll hunt down some plans for a bearing tool online... See what I can come up with.. Do you reckon a hammering type tool or a pressing type tool would work best?

the shipping is a problem for sure.... Ha! Even worse is the taxes on the expensive stuff.... and they're not interested in marking the box as a gift or as of lower value.....

 

[JimmyDuncan]

Am I mistaken that the bearings are different sizes and I'd need to get different size heads machined..?

 

[Grumpy]

one head size on the tool will work with all the SBC bearings, the differences in size are minimal, but you still need to put them where they belong

 

[Indycars]

I'll hunt down some plans for a bearing tool online... See what I can come up with.. Do you reckon a hammering type tool or a pressing type tool would work best?

It's a very long thread but start with the link below and read down. There is a 2nd
section with pictures of a DIY cam bearing tool for some ideas.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-install-tools-install-info.1479/#post-9346

 

[JimmyDuncan]

I finally got round to dropping the block off at the machine shop... I got a couple of recommendations from guys at the local car club and they said this guy (Jeff) was a good bloke and does good work. I think one quote was, "I can't seem to destroy the engine he built me, no matter how hard I try!" He and his son are members of the car club I joined last month and I'll make sure to go to the next meeting, as he said he'd be there... I figure getting to know him a bit more has to be good for the price and the attention he gives me and my project.

After as quick look, he said that the bores should be fine going out to .040 from the .030 they are now. The block is in the bath now and he'll check it for cracks and confirm with me that I should go ahead with purchasing a rotating assembly, for him to then do the re-bore, align bore and bearings etc...

I liked how he was willing to chat about my plans and parts. He wasn't in a rush to get me out of there..

One thing he asked, which is a pretty simple question, but embarrassingly I didn't really know.. was how much power do you hope to make... I kinda just went.. "uuhhhhhh, 400? 450?", I hadn't really got a clear number in my head... Am I right that based on the parts and build we've been discussing, that 400-450hp range is about where I'm heading? Grumpy's Dyno2000 graphs look like that's the case.

He had a strong opinion on going with a roller cam, so I'm going to do some more research into my options and the extra $$$ it will add to the build cost.. More thoughts on this are welcome guys.

He recommended a set of Edelbrock Estreet heads as a good value option... He said he had used them on a few engines and been happy with the results... It looks like its a decent option, and was middle of the pack in the under $1000 head shootout I read somewhere... Any experiences with thoughts on these?

Edit: Hmm, the more I look into it, they probably aren't the best value option out there, nor will they quite meet my requirements? The Promaxx 185 and Pro-Filer 195s (that Grumpy suggested way back on page 1 ) look good online, but, certain brands and models may be cheaper to buy here in Oz, than online.. More research required... Will depend on getting someone to pick up or ship some back for me to save some money on shipping and taxes I think..

Pro-filer quote $700 for shipping a set of heads....
Summit quote about $450...

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/cylinder-heads/chevy/e-street-sb.shtml

My next objective is to select a rotating assembly. I will need to purchase one in the next week or so.. I'm thinking the SCAT 9000 series will be a suitable option?

https://www.flatlanderracing.com/scatsr-chevysbcast.html

This is what I'm thinking:

Chevy SB 350/400 Main
Series 9000 Cast Pro Comp (2 piece rear seal)
Street & Strip with Pro Stock I-Beam Rods with 3/8" Cap Screws - Rod Upgrade: 7/16" I-Beam?
Rings: 1/16 x 1/16 x 3/16
Internal Balance
383 Crank: 3.750" Stroke Rod: 6.000" Rod Length
HYPER (FLAT) 4.040 pistons

Jeff (machine shop guy) is going to put together a price for a rotating assembly for me to compare to what I'll pay to buy one from your side of the world... It'll be interesting to see how much difference there is.. shipping, taxes and exchange rates are a real bitch.... I need to make friends with an American who can send me heavy "gifts" of little value, to save taxes.. ha! My partner is traveling over to the states later this year for a triathlon, so I'm hoping that I can save up the $$ to get her to bring back the heads and a few other parts then, to save on shipping and taxes...

 

[Grumpy]

verify prices quoted ! are for TWO cylinder heads or a single cylinder head, some places sell heads in matched pairs most places quote a SINGLE cylinder head price
and some places like summit do it both ways dependent on brand and part number sellected

 

[JimmyDuncan]

verify prices quoted ! are for TWO cylinder heads or a single cylinder head, some places sell heads in matched pairs most places quote a SINGLE cylinder head price
and some places like summit do it both ways dependent on brand and part number sellected

Yeah, I've noticed that... Would be very disappointing to open a package with half of what I need in it.. Particularly if I pay almost as much again for shipping.. ha!