Let's start over

DorianL

DorianL

solid fixture here in the forum
Staff member
Right - I decided to keep meticulous track of my oil pressure and the effect of each mod that I do.

GRRRRR Detailed!!!!!!!

At this point I am starting over with no prejudice. Blank slate. No memory or notes.

I am going to use a known reliable oil pressure gauge and pick that up this noon.

So far I have rather fresh 15W40 in there and a new oil filter. Oil level is fine.

Just one thing I will say - before the build, I would see 40PSI at 2000 rpm cruise. I would be happy to see that again.

Most certainly I will be dropping the pan again possibly today or tomorrow evening. The oil is from this weekend, so I assume it will be next to clear, correct?
 
If you aren't getting blow by, coolant or metal from the bearings, yes. If you have the same issue after this I would start looking at bearings. ;)
 
Hang in there Dorian, we have all been there and wished we had paid more attention to the details the first time when trying diagnose a problem.

You will get it figured out !
 
before you even worry , lets see what installing the new oil filter, checking your oil level and swapping to a new pressure gauge indicate as to oil pressure
 
Right - I think there must be something in the pan.

All hot readings:
idle - 13 PSI (stop for a few minutes - I get 13 PSI)
2000 - 34 PSI (down to 30 after a 4000 rpm run)
3000 - 40 PSI needle stable
4000 - Goes up to 50 then needle gets errattic dipping to 30

...

Not good @#$%@#$%#@$

Time to drop the pan AGAIN.

(To top things off, I just locke myself out of the car. Called AAA)

PS - Last time I looked in the pan, everything looked fine. A little silty yes, but no bearing material...
 
This time I will filter the oil to see what is in it when I drain it.
 
its critical the pick-up screen is not plugged, that the pump is clear of debris and operating smoothly and the pick-up is mounted at between 3/8"-1/2" (about 9mm-to-13mm) from the oil pan floor, that your running the correct oil level ,and ideally your using a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, I personally would use a high volume oil pump and a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan and Id disassemble the pump inspect it for internal damage and replace the oil bye-pass spring after cleaning out the bye-pass piston and cylinder in the pump if it was my car, and Id also pull and inspect at least the front and rear main cap bearings before reinstalling those main caps, and refill the car with fresh oil.
one of my friends had similar problems that resulted from a bunch of nylon timing gear teeth and silicone sealant gasket trash blocking the oil pump pick-up and having some minor trash stuck internally in his oil pump after a cam timing set was replaced, another guy ignored the fact his short block was very difficult to spin because he had used the wrong bolt to mount his oil pump and it was tight against the rear main bearing shell distorting both the main cap and the bearing which failed rapidly due to that error in assembly and you certainly would not be the first guy to have a defective oil pump or the plugs in the oil passages come loose or be incorrectly installed, or to have the oil pump drive shaft between the lower distributor and oil pump,to long so it bears on the pump with zero clearance



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A magnetic oil pan drain plug is helpfull but let me tell you, its a pita to thread in.
I would maby cut that old oil filter in twice so you can see whats inside too.
I wish its just a simple thing and not the bearings.

My previous engine had the breagins shot. Before i take it out of the car, it was running about 6-9psi of oil, and we could clearly hear it knocking at idle and specially at 2500rpm with no load, that was with very thick oil.

Grumpyvette have good point above, before to aim at the bearings id check those things.
 
Right. Will drop the pan. Tomorrow and look for metal debris in there. Will also check under the caps. All of them?
 
carefully checking all of them one at a time, then re torquing each back into place in stages, sure won,t hurt, but you should get a good idea checking just #1,and #3 and,#5, if those look good the other two should also
 
c475e667.jpg


Decided to look more carefully at oil in old pan. There definitely is some shit in there.

I saw some bits of silicone - red and blue.

There's a blue or green chip of plastic in there and some other material. None of it is magnetic. WTF. Did I leave a piece of plastic in there? WTF?
 
Well this the old oil pan. It was outside and might have gotten contaminated. Let's first get a look at the one on there.
 
one of my less than brilliant friends once installed an intake manifold without removing a small 6" x 6" shop rag, that he left in the lifter gallery , surprisingly it didn,t seem to cause, huge problems , but it did slow oil return,to the sump, and he only found it a few months later when he swapped intakes again, "we ALL make mistakes and over look things, I know I have several times"so its not totally impossible that
theres foreign materials in your engine, like odd bits of gasket, or solidified silicone sealant caught in the oil pump causing problems

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64
 
Scrubbed this ##$%^# for hours! Where did all this come from....
 
just a thought, but you certainly will occasionally find crap IN oil cans strait from the case, and bits of gasket and squeezed out excess silicone sealant is common, the oil filter cant trap it till its gone thru the oil pump and oil pump pick-up, and its very common for the filter to only catch about 80%-90% of the crap trapped in the oil on each trip thru the engine so thats why I usually suggest using a large funnel with a fine mesh screen,when adding oil to any engine, while it tends to take a good deal longer to drain the oil you occasionally do find trapped crud on the fine mesh.
btw you did check to see if you had the full 5-6 quarts in there didn,t you?
keep in mind some of the cheaper oil filters have a habit of failing and coming apart if they get clogged and its not unheard of to find loose crud in them

http://www.tooltopia.com/plews_lubrimatic-75-072.aspx
fl7aa.jpg



viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117
 
Humm those debrits in the oil pan looks strange. Lets hope the bearings are still in good shape and its only a restricted oil passage?
 
Well, I am kinda happy it is not metal - just wonder WTF it is.

I will be dropping the end caps as you suggest, Grumpy. I somehow feel that this might sort itself out after all and there will be no significant damage.

Stay tuned.
 
Gentlemen,

Do you think the amount of debris in there is enough to cause the oil pressure issues?
 
DorianL said:
Gentlemen,

Do you think the amount of debris in there is enough to cause the oil pressure issues?
Click to expand...


if it was only what you showed, probably not,almost all oil pans have some small crud and its usually fairly harmless, but keep in mind almost all the loose crud gets sucked into the oil pump and either stops at the oil pump pick-up screen or more frequently gets ground up in the pump gears and force fed into the blocks oil passages where its trapped by the smaller bearing clearances but once it reaches the bearings the clearances are far tighter and either they restrict oil flow or get trapped and damage the bearings, cam lobes lifters,rockers or crank journals

heres a picture of crud trapped in a bearing feed port
cloggedbearing.jpg


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834
 
I suppose pulling the pan will tell the story - but presumably with an issue like that the oil pressure would always be low?

I am thinking that whatever is in the pan is accumulating on the mesh while driving. As I rev the pressure drops even more as crub builds up.
 
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