My Cam Research for the Experts Eye

Indycars said:
I've always used the DOT 5 fluid in my TBucket. I really enjoy not having to worry about the paint!!!
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EXACTLY!
Also, my long term experience with Dot 5 over 20 years in the car has been very good.
Seems that a bit more care is needed to fully bleed the system, I think D5 tends to get "mini bubbles" . My method is to mityvac at each wheel to get fluid, then use the old school tube in bottle to pump brakes and bleed each wheel. Works very well and it's a 1 man operation.
 
I had to walk away today - what a disaster.

I noticed a leak at a fitting, re-tightening didn't do anything, so I decided to splice in a section.

I had used the usual 2-bar tube clamp and die tool that you see everywhere for all of my brake lines. I recently had bought this tool as it allows use in tighter spots than the standard tool.
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It sets up like this, lots of videos out there.
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Decent flare.
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Here's the new section.
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I could get to the brake line on the car with this tool.
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The new splice didn't leak but I really didn't like the waviness in the line after I had monkeyed with it. Just me - I like brake and fuel lines to look straight with good bends.
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I was going to live with it since it's not noticeable, but I started poking around and found small leaks almost everywhere - what the hell!
There were leaks at front tee, rear axle tee, at the line lock and at the rear proportioning valve. I took a lot of care with prep work and examining every flare on the lines before installation. And I used the correct SAE double flare setup. SUM-TING-WONG but no idea why.

I tried to loosen and re-tighten the fittings to maybe reset them but no luck. If they drip - even super slow - now, they will leak all over the place when the pedal is depressed. So, after throwing a couple of tools around I sat and thought about what to do. I have the overall lengths of the lines documented, before any bends were done, so I know what lengths of line I need. In almost every case the lengths are almost the same as the straight lengths you can get over the counter.

I decided to pull them all out and go get straight lengths of Pro-Armor coated brake lines from the local auto part store. They have a sort of gray-green coating, are flared on both ends, and hold up very well. I've used them before. I've never had an issue with them leaking either. I'll use the existing lines as a bending guide for the new lines, so that will be much faster than the first time fitting new lines. I don't want to cut and re-flare the existing lines because then the length won't be right and I think they will look like the one I repaired. That one will be re-done as well.

So then I walked away and worked on the transmission instead. It's a hobby - sometimes one step forward, two steps back.
 
flaring brake lines is partly science and partly an ART that requires some experience to accomplish even with decent tools


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Replacing Hard Brake Lines On C4 Corvette

if your having issues with the corvettes brakes Id suggest,you start by putting the car up on a two post lift or jack stands and remove the wheels and do a careful inspection, look for leakage, look at the calipers and pads and it helps to have a buddy to work the brakes during the inspection...
garage.grumpysperformance.com




www.eastwood.com

Eastwood Professional Brake Line and Tubing Flaring Tool

Create 3 kinds of precision flares, in 5 sizes of tubing
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Eastwood 37 Degree Flare Die Set for 25304 Pro Tubing Flaring Tool

Use with our Pro Flare Tool 25304 to create 37-degree flares
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Triple Head 180 degree Tubing Bender 3/16-3/8 in

Bends 3/16
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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/brake-and-fuel-line-flaring.11236/#post-50743

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ubing-fuel-lines-and-flaring.1030/#post-35905
 
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So I'm going to think about options before I jump to a fix.
I can buy the premade sections, but I've stepped back a bit to let the dust settle.
I really like the Eastwood tool - there's an identical version on Ebay that comes from the same factory for around $85. That newest tool I bought seems to do a decent job, but I only want to do brake lines once more, tops.
Bending is no problem, I've got plenty of good quality benders. I also have more Ni-Copp line so I don't have to buy that if I choose to install replacement Ni-Copp vs the Pro-Armor store bought lines. I'm going to look closely at root cause, including a look at the inverted flare fittings and adapters.
I understand about good quality tools (and parts) - I bought a Rigid flaring tool to do all of the fuel system ANSI (37d) flares. Zero leaks, excellent tool. Not the cheapest out there but after a successful install, it was worth every penny.
I've got other things that I can do as well, while I mull over a feasible solution.

Edit: I pulled all the brake lines to inspect flares and adapters. I'm not finding a smoking gun. I did notice that they took a fair amount of tightening, which may be a clue. Usually with oem or prebent lines, after contact they seem to tighten within a turn. These took more, with most leaking even after significant tightening which just didn't feel right.
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Average flare
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After some inspection and thought about a good solution, I decided to stick with ny-copp lines that I would reflare or replace as needed.

Pre-bent just didn't allow for the exact lengths needed to avoid unnecessary loops or bends to take up length. Plus, this isn't rocket science - I need to get the brakes done and move on.
I bought the ebay version of the Eastwood tool - other than packaging/price, these all look like they cone from the same factory.
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A couple of the lines just need one end re-flared, but I'll replace the tube nuts as well. And I'll remove and inspect all adapters/tee blocks used.
 
please let us know how the tool looks and functions that's obviously a very good price saving!
especially if its a duplicate tool to the one costing and marked up much more
eastwood and lots of other vendors drop ship tools from a supplier and simply have the tool maker add their sticker,
they don't make the tools,
so it could be a tool thats nearly identical just not with the EASTWOOD vendor sticker and EASTWOOD's added warranty
which that tools marked up price pays for,
the issue is that it might be a cheaply made (chinese knock off) or it might be the identical tool
you really can't , from pictures posted alone you can't tell without putting both tools next to each other and inspecting and testing
 
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I did all my brake and fuel lines using the 37° flare (AN Specs). I did the fuel lines in SS, therefore I polished flare where it would seat against the next piece. This required a thorough cleaning to remove any polishing compound from the SS line. Sorry I don't have pics of this operation.

But the brake lines were much simpler with just a simple 37° flare. I used aluminum fittings, but if you can find steel fittings it would be much preferred.

FP01_LeftFrontBrakeTee_02710.jpg
 
I really liked the performance of the ANSI flares on my fuel lines. Zero issues, and the Rigid flare tool works like a dream. But I decided to stay with the 45d double flares on the brake lines to ensure I can make them successfully. I really didn't like the number of fitting leaks I found, kind of made me mad enough to do them again and do them right. This also gives me options for making both type flares as needed in the future.

I did receive the 45d flare tool kit today, I think it's well made and I'll post info and results of some test flares. Right now I'm on crutches but that's a story for another day!
 
yeah, crap happens, I have to visit a doctor tomorrow, I may have busted something in my right elbow, it hurts a great deal,
the right elbow noticeably larger than the left one now,
I was lifting something in the shop and felt something tear in the elbow area!
my wifes still in the hospital, so at least she can't tell me in that female/ wife minute detail, that I should know better,
I'm too old to keep lifting crap without help!
 
Its hell sometimes to get older, very frustrating. I've buggered up my knee somehow. Even more frustrating now that I'm getting brake fittings and transmission parts delivered. I'm just looking at them lol.
 
I was able to tinker with that flaring tool kit I just got. My opinion is that it's ok but not really any better than the flaring tools I already have. It's a lot faster though, and I give it some points for that.

This isn't a how-to, just my 2 cents.
What I got.
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The dies are separated at either end into either straight 45 or DIN bubble/double flare.
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Flares are ok, as I mentioned the big difference is the speed. Very easy to use this tool.
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I'm wondering if re-using adapters may have been a factor in the leaks. As you can see these are brass fittings. I used a magnifying glass to look at the internal flare and it seems that with use some of the flares were slightly flattened from the 45d. I have gotten all new adapters, as most of the old adapters had over 20 years on them.
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I do have to replace one line for sure, and re-do two flares, but I think I'll first replace the adapters, install the lines and try again. This isn't my first time doing brake lines, but I've never had this trouble before.

Rick, I'm not opposed to using my Rigid 37d tool if this second attempt fails, and go with ANSI fittings.

One thing I also did was to use 1/8 flex tubing to measure brake line lengths and record the numbers. A good reference if I ever need to replace a line.
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thank you for posting the info and the pictures its makes understanding the post much easier!! :like:
 
Overall, this particular tool version isn't that impressive. It's not the fool-proof process that you see with more expensive versions. Worth the try but I'll probably send it back.

Edit - it seems to be doing OK now, I'm keeping the tool. I think operator error may have been a factor. I tried 1/4 tubing and the flares were easy and looked good. I realized that I may have been applying too much pressure on the 3/16 tube. The flare was there but so was a ridge behind the flare. I eased up and the 3/16 flares started turning out fine. It really doesn't take much effort at all, less than I thought.
 
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So you are playing games with my wording (I know your type, I'm one of them) ..... Are you retired from John Brown E & C ???
 
Indycars said:
So you are playing games with my wording (I know your type, I'm one of them) ..... Are you retired from John Brown E & C ???
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Yup, I lasted 35 years in the "same" company that changed hands a number of times. JB E&C was one of the companies along the way. Career in architecture/engineering/industrial construction.
 
I know this brake stuff is going in too long - I hate being even slower than my usual speed of slow.

Comment on the flaring tool - it's doing pretty good now that I've worked on technique for 3/16 flares. 1/4 and above are pretty easy, but I ended up making about ten test 3/16 flares to get where I was making consistent flares.
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I only remade two of the brake lines.
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I looked at the previous lines/flares and there really didn't seem to be anything wrong with them. None of the 1/4 lines leaked, leaks were related to 3/16 flares/adapters. Looking closely, there's a difference in the old 3/16 adapters vs the new ones. The internal flare looks slightly "worn" or pushed down from previous use. These are old ones, not that easy to see, but more obvious with the new ones.
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So plan is to hoist my crutches around and install the new adapters, all lines, and get fluid back into the system.

I know this is probably tedious, but I'm posting my troubles for anybody else that may run into this. Don't overlook the fittings and/or adapters as maybe a leak point.

PS - I wanted to mention that AGS Automotive Solutions was a good online source for adapters/fittings which seem to be way overpriced at local parts store, Amazon, etc.
 
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don't get discouraged every skill mastered requires REPEATED PRACTICE to become even a bit proficient
 
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