Unforgiven Project

Indycars said:
Yes I agree, bolt stretch is your definitive answer. I was only offering the idea to torque each
bolt several times so that those values would be closer together and easy your mind.
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I can see where that is a good idea Rick. I will make sure to do that. Thank you
 
JohnHancock said:
You have 10AN fuel line? That will flow enough fuel! Lol
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Yes ... I am running a supply and a return, both of which are 10AN size. I need to run large lines because of the E-85 fuel I am using. We calculated
that my motor will burn 2.8 gallons a minute at wide open throttle.
 
Might as well go with Nitro/Alky and put a 1" line on it with a crank driven pump and say the hell with the road.:D:eek::eek:;);)
 
T-Test said:
Might as well go with Nitro/Alky and put a 1" line on it with a crank driven pump and say the hell with the road.:D:eek::eek:;);)
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Alky scares the shit out of me!! You can't see it burn. Then there's the issues of having to wear a fire suit all the time. Yes the truck is stricktley
an off road truck and will never see the streets. I also have a passenger that rides along. Sometimes its my wife, and sometimes I get asked from
a young kid who (with his family) are walking around the pit area looking at the trucks! Mind you , we do not run full out when these kids are in the truck. WE KEEP IT SAFE...We just drive them around and go through a few smaller mud holes (to spin the tires and throw up some mud), The kids love it! This is something Coty and I do with the familys.
 
Stretch or ppsi torque I think either will work as I hope you have a rev limiter installed or it might just do the same thing again. Blowers stress all engines, no matter who builds them. JMHO-----which aint much these days.
 
T-Test said:
Stretch or ppsi torque I think either will work as I hope you have a rev limiter installed or it might just do the same thing again. Blowers stress all engines, no matter who builds them. JMHO-----which aint much these days.
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Thanks T.... My new torque wrench has a certificate showing tests done at different poundage's. It tested dead on up to 200lbs and showed 249.8 lbs
at a 250lb pull. I am going to do as Rick said and torque the bolts several times to wear them in before final torque at 70lbs. I will check for stretch
and add more torque (if needed) to even out the stretch on all bolts.
I have been going over the failure so much to pin point what went wrong, and have come to the conclusion that it was a number of things that compiled into it. #1 reason I feel is that I must have over stretched the bolts. I say this because I can remember hitting the torque spec needed, and it
just did not feel that it was enough. I can remember giving it just a bit more after the click on the two rods that broke. I remember this because it was those two rods that I had to remove the caps after I had them all on, because I had forgot to mic and record the crank journal. Looking back...When I reinstalled those caps ... I feel that there was a chance that they may have not been seated down all the way, and may have bound up on the dowels.
I just remember them feeling spongy.. # 2 If you go back and listen carefully to the video link I posted... at the end of the video where I came down off the motor and walked around the passenger side of the truck , You can hear me make a remark about how I thought I heard some noise in the pan.
If you listen carefully... you can hear ( which had to have been the rods) hitting the windage tray. That could not have been good on those bolt heads.
Also the tune I had was questionable, as I am learning about this Super Sniper EFI. It may have caused some detonation. Then there is the fact that I DO NOT have a rev limiter, and I may have over revved it on the test hit. I have always relied on my shift light to do my shifting. On that first test hit... My tach was not hooked up yet, and I was relying on watching that hand held monitor for my RPM's.. and feel.

Everything and senario I have gone over...I have come to a conclusion with.... it all points to ME. I was so excited about trying to meet a deadline for the next event... I lost focus and did not question myself enough, when subtle little things (like spongy feel on the torque) arose and I just pushed forward.
It was a recipe for disaster.
I am taking my time with the new build. Not to say I did not with the first one, but I will be questioning alot more of myself.
After the motor is back together, I have already talked to "Steve Morris Engines" and he is going to dyno and tune the motor before I put it back in the truck. I will feel alot better having someone with his expertise going over the motor and putting the correct tune on it. Especially with the E-85 fuel and that Sniper EFI.

My wife meanwhile said that at the very least....from all of what has happened.. she has finally found what it takes to make me humble....... A broken motor to the tune of $12,000

Also T..... dont ever short change yourself or your opinion... It does count!
 
Give wifey a hug everyday for she loves you dearly.

Everyone F''s up at least once in a lifetime. Especially when in unfamiliar territory. If it feels wrong (spongy/tight/loose) STOP and walk away and think what IF. Go back and recheck and replace whatever it is and do not question your action. THINK LONG THINK WRONG is what I have used most of my life as the first conclusion/decision is usually the BEST conclusion/answer. I am still alive because of this philosophy!!

"Steve Morris Engines" will be the guinea pig for the engines first test run. STAND BACK from the window and pray it holds and that he knows more about the tuning than you and he will not try to hurt it.
I have always used a 3/16 drill bit for clearance checking windage trays to allow for flexing of crank and block. Sounds like a lot BUT too close is worse than no windage tray at all.

"She has finally found what it takes to make me humble." My wife CRYING humbles me to do whatever she says. I'm her slave forever!!!
 
most of us learn through a process of mistakes failures and eventual success,
your certainly not alone in having had a few significant failures along the way in learning how,
or how not to build an engine.
Its all part of paying your dues as they say!
 
Grumpy said:
most of us learn through a process of mistakes failures and eventual success,
your certainly not alone in having had a few significant failures along the way in learning how,
or how not to build an engine.
Its all part of paying your dues as they say!
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But not to the tune of $12000.00. No sponsors and you can lose everything!!
 
WELL SAID... T !
Yes, Steve Morris is a top notch builder.. and well known. He builds 4,000 HP motors. I have even seen some of his motors on that show "Street Outlaws"
I looked up his website and thought that I am definitly out of his league! His shop looks to be of high a caliber. I almost feel I might be embarrassed
to even bring my junk into his shop. Yes, there is that scary thought that it might not hold together, but hey... ya have to roll the dice to make progress.
That windage tray has been kicking my butt... I had to remove it from the pan when I did the surgery to fix it. My plans now are ... that since I have witness gouges in the tray... I am going to cut small windows in it so the bolts can't come into contact with it. I remember checking the pickup for proper clearances... but I never even thought to check for bolt clearances last time.. I have thought about using modeling clay to smear over the tray
and spin the motor by hand ... then remove the pan and actually see where the crank and rods are at in location to the tray. It scares me that the tray is aluminum and like before....if there is contact... the magnets will not attract the metal pieces. That sucked when I was power washing the block again and finding aluminum everywhere. But it's clean now! every passage on the block and crank have been washed and blown out with air. I have used soap and water to wash all components and soaked them in MMO.
After a lot of thought and research.. I am going to replace the Cometric MLS head gaskets. Some say you can reuse them but I am taking no chances.
Anyway....My first order of buisness is to get the rods checked. What do you guy's feel is a safe tolerance for the big end out of roundness. Scat told me they hold a .0001 tolerance. Hell... I can breathe on the rod and change it by that amount! My machinist said he uses .001 for a tolerance, BUT... that is for a bone stock motor. I was thinking .0002-.0004 might be exceptable. I cannot get a firm answer on this. Some argue that there is .0025 between the bearings and crank.. but I feel that has nothing to do with the roundness. I think the roundness is for proper bearing fit to the rod itself.
Otherwise, I feel the bearing may spin in the rod. What do you men think? Is my thinking correct?

T-Test said:
"She has finally found what it takes to make me humble." My wife CRYING humbles me to do whatever she says. I'm her slave forever!!!
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T .... your a good man!
As much as I complain about my wife.... I do feel the same way as you said.
:);):)
 
Grumpy said:
most of us learn through a process of mistakes failures and eventual success,
your certainly not alone in having had a few significant failures along the way in learning how,
or how not to build an engine.
Its all part of paying your dues as they say!
Click to expand...

Thank you Grumpy..
I must say ... that I am not to proud to announce to the world that I failed !
It makes for a better feeling for when you do actually succeed , when learning from your mistakes!
 
When you assemble the motor or doing something critical to it's survival, I would suggest
that you be the only one in the shop. It's just too easy to get distracted by another person's
comment, question or story. That's when you forget where you are at, skip that one rod,
don't tighten that one bolt ......etc !

Also someway to check off what you have done, such as a Sharpie mark on each rod or rod
bolt, each ring once end gap is set. Or you could do it on paper, what ever it takes to give you
confidence that you have NOT missed a step.

BTW, does Steve Morris hold you responsible if the motor damages the dyno? I was told by
the shop here in OKC that if the motor came apart on their dyno, I was responsible for any
damages. I hate to bring this up, but it's better to know the facts.
 
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