My Cam Research for the Experts Eye

[TXChevy]

She did a great job narrating the video, I got the reference too!
Grumpy, that's all good stuff, reminds us of how much there is to getting things done right.

Currently it looks like Saturday morning for blast-off. Rick, I used and modified the engine start punch list you had kindly posted awhile ago.

 

[TXChevy]

I'm glad and relieved to say that today's start-up exceeded expectations ! In fact there was very little drama lol.


I've got a couple videos that I'll try to link here but to summarize...
- Last checks and a dry crank before connecting the HEI.
- it fired immediately but died a couple times, no big deal as I was moving the distributor a bit and it needed a little more gas
- third time it fired up, we ran it about 1500 rpm for 15 minutes, good oil pressure, smooth, sounded great
- carb was fine, no flooding, nice throttle response
- I didn't use a timing light, this was just for initial running. Used the ear gauge but I'll time it accurately next time
- I'll poke around to see if there's any drips or drabs but a quick look shows nothing

Observations...
- I think the Morel lifters can use about another quarter turn but not sure. I can hear them a bit but it's not excessive. I've read that they tend to be a bit noisier.
- I do hear a bit of lifter clatter but right now I'm not going to rush to crank the rockers down another quarter turn. Lots of oil info out there about Morel too. I'm wondering if the tie bars contribute to that noise.
- my bounce house fan wasn't optimal. Engine stabilized at 210 but I could see and feel the radiator was only getting a center cone of air hitting it.
- timing may be contributor to engine temp, since I just moved distributor to where it sounded the best
- I'm on the fence about a larger radiator but first I'll get the twin electric fans installed, then figure further after I see results.

Guys, I hope you share in the glory here. This was an easy start-up with a very solid sounding engine. I need to get used to the different exhaust tone with the different cam overlap, has that little bumpy bumpy at idle.
Additional motivation now to get the cooling system finished and rebuild the trans, but as you've been there too, this was a big milestone.

Thank you again.

 

[Indycars]

 

[Grumpy]

yes, congrats on progress made, let us know how things progress with the tweak & tune!

 

[TXChevy]

This is a head-scratcher... I did some checking around and under the engine and all looks ok except for one spot. I guess it can always be worse lol.

I've attached a picture to hopefully explain better. This sounds really dumb but I can't seem to track the source of a very small oil drip.
It's located on a block pad above the oil filter, enough to give a few drops onto the header.
The block is shiny black paint so just looking for oil on it is a challenge. I ran a cloth under the valve cover and it came up clean, as did the cylinder head above this pad. I'm suspecting possible seepage at the corner of the intake/head but I'm just not sure. I wiped stuff in the area, but I think I'll run the engine some more and maybe use a Kleenex or something similar that's super absorbent and will show even light oil trace. I'll also use my new fancy endoscope to look at all areas. Suggestions are welcome!

 

[Grumpy]

youll have a hard time locating the source when there's no way the engine in that condition can be run, and there's no oil flow to track or leak
heads get bathed in oil flung from the pushrods and rockers, there's no oil passages directly feeding oil through chevy heads other than the push rod oil flow to the rockers, and oil drains back through the lifter galleys , I would ignore it until the engines reassembled and running

adding an oil cooler with a fan generally helps improve engine durability, I've found those similar to this one( linked below,)make a significant reduction in either trans fluid or oil temps (obviously that depends on what your using it for, and yeah, before ordering one look at the cooler mounting diagram and figure out where you can mount it with enough room for it and the fluid coolant lines feeding it to fit easily and figure out how you connect the electric fan wiring, I've generally suggested use of a temperature switch sensor that turns on the fan on a transmission cooler at about 160F and if used as an oil cooler at 195F-200F
and obviously you'll want easy access to cooler outside air flow, try to avoid areas behind a radiator or near hot exhaust pipes etc.

Derale Cooling Products 15870 Derale Hyper-Cool Extreme Remote Fluid Coolers with Fan | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Derale Hyper-Cool Extreme Remote Fluid Coolers with Fan with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Fluid Coolers at Summit Racing.

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YEAH EVERYTHING THAT'S QUALITY MADE IN PARTS IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN YOU"LL EXPECT IT TO BE!

Mounting An Effective Trans Cooler On A C4 Corvette

now I know few cars with less room to mount an efficient oil cooler with a fan than a c4 corvette, and after I installed a 3200 rpm stall converter in my corvette it became obvious I needed an aux trans fluid cooler. theres very little under the hood room and ground clearance is already minimal...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

[TXChevy]

LOL, I was only using an internet picture to show the oily area - the engine is in the car and running

Here's a youtube link - thanks Rick - on that first start, running about 1500 rpm

 

[Grumpy]

heres an old trick, spray the suspect area with hot soapy water and grease solvent, several times then use a heat gun to dry or just let it sit in the hot sun with the hood open for an hour,you do this to remove all previous oil and grease, then once its totally dry liberally dust the area with TALCUM BABY POWDER ( DO THIS OUTSIDE NOT IN YOUR SHOP) and once done, you start the engine , get a good strong flash light and have a buddy blip the throttle a few times, any oil leak will be very obvious over the fresh talcum baby powder dust on the engine, once you found the leak,obviously repair its source then repeat the soap/solvent wash to remove the talcum powder

tracking down an oil leak

step one is to clean the old oil and dirt off the engine with a good degreasing solvent and/or use of a pressure washer so you can positively locate the source of the oil leak, READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THREAD AND ALL THE SUB LINKED INFO yes wash the engine, with a good grease solvent spray, any...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

[TXChevy]

That's great info, thanks!
I'll do this.

 

[TXChevy]

I didn't look at the oil seepage yet.

I did crank it up and set the timing and carb - I'll probably fine tune after the transmission is rebuilt/installed and the engine is under load. I don't have a tach connected yet, so seat of the pants idle feels like 600-700 rpm. I set timing (vacuum disconnected) at 12d BTDC and adjusted idle mix for highest vacuum reading. I'll mess with the idle speed a bit more too, right now I want to ensure a good oil bath at idle (oil pressure is 55 psi at idle).

I do need to get the electric puller fans installed - with 2 fans sitting on chairs blowing at the radiator, it still creeps upward, not really overheating but I shut it off at 210d. It was about 100d in the garage too. My laser temp gun showed 190d at the water pump, thermostat housing and a bit lower at the hoses. One thing I noticed was that if I put my hand behind the radiator I could feel a breeze but not really a ton of air moving through, so I think that the fan air is getting dissipated somewhat before it hits the radiator. There's about 18 inches between the fans and the radiator. The fans that I will be installing are dual Spal 11 in with a shroud. I'm not overly worried at this point, cooler weather will be here for the actual driving and I need to focus on finishing all wiring, dash and getting the transmission rebuilt. The driveshaft only needs repainting and new u-joints.

I did check temp at each header tube and they were all within 5d of each other so it looks like a good cylinder balance/fuel mix.

So it will be start-ups in the garage for the foreseeable future. I wish my old phone had better sound recording, the car sounds great in person.

 

[Grumpy]

yes fans that suck air through a radiator (ESPECIALLY if used with a matching fan shroud)
are far more efficient at moving volumes of air through a radiator than pusher fans
keep in mind adding an oil cooler, equipped with a powered fan,
and a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan generally reduces the engines operational temps and adds significantly to the engines long term durability, thermal clutch fans can make a significant improvement in power available at the wheels,
compared to a strait mechanical OEM fan used on some cars

transmission and oil cooler increases durability

If your thinking of adding an oil cooler for either engine oil or trans fluid cooling, ,the first question ID have is WHY are you adding an oil cooler and WHAT are your current oil temps, and transmission fluid temps that require one? IF you can,t tell what your current fluid and oil temps ARE...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

auto cooling system flow rates and heat transfer

have you ever read stuff posted on line and just shake your head at the lack of facts or in some cases outright MS-INFORMATION being posted? Honestly I'm amazed at the common myths and out right ms-information that's constantly repeated over and over as if it were facts, and a bit mystified that...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

How to Choose an Electric Fan in 4 Easy Steps

DIY Garage on Summit, How To's by David Fuller A couple weeks back, we asked the question: Mechanical vs. Electric Fans: Which is Best for Your Vehicle? If you’ve determined that an electric fan is the best choice for your ride, you’re certainly not alone. Electric fans have become...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

Mechanical Vs Electrical Fans For Efficient Cooling At Idle

Cast a vote for Mechanical vs Electrical fans for a sbc 350 daily driver with air conditioning that experiences stop and go traffic in Arizona summers with temp greater than 110F. Which set up would most effectively keep the engine

garage.grumpysperformance.com

No fan clutch

I just noticed there isn't a fan clutch. Should I install one? I thought these clutches were pretty much universally installed on everything by a certain point in time?

garage.grumpysperformance.com

do I need the fan shroud?

So here is what I got. I have an electric fan on my car. I'm getting a new radiator that is a good bit thicker in the car and the aluminum shroud would require some... Modification to fit. My question is would it be advantageous to modify the shroud over just attaching the fan directly to the...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

cooling fans, one mostly over-looked component

cooling fans come in a large variety of types, but the idea is too increase the flow of heat absorbing air flow over the fins of the radiator while maintaining high cooling system efficiency and engine durability and low loads on the engine. an engine driven fan is fine, the main factor in...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

how the cooling system works, basics

READ THE LINKS, POSTED IN THIS THREAD and their sub links ALSO Almost all engine combos run best, and have the least wear and emissions when your running a 180F-190F t-stat and the engine coolant temp stays in the 180F-210 f range, most of the time. keep in mind a t-stat does not limit the...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

making a trip to the salvage yard

If your like I am youve found over the years a rather consistent and recurring problem, you see, is that many projects get stalled for an hour or more rather regularly simply, because you find you don,t have some small, almost insignificant part like the correct size bolt, or fuze, or some...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

[TXChevy]

Cooling info all bookmarked.

Here's my game plan...

- I'm going to use the Spal 11 in fans I have. Rated at 2750cfm total, which to me is a bit marginal, but space is limited. Unfortunately I need to remove the radiator to get them installed. Not a huge issue.


They need to fit inside the horseshoe opening.


- I like thermo clutch fans too but no room at all for one. It's pretty tight for the Spals.

- I need to get the car driveable so next priority items are transmission rebuild/install and getting things in place in the dash.

- cooler weather "should" be here in TX at some point, so I won't be fighting 100+ temps when driving/breaking in.

- if I'm still not happy with cooling, then in the spring I'll fabricate a complete core support with a new larger radiator/fans. Reason is that I'll need to change that horseshoe support to get full opening airflow, plus I'll be able to install much larger fans/increased cfm. I've already sized the fan circuits (one for each fan, with common grounding control) for 40amp steady draw. Right now for the Spal fans they are overdesigned which is fine.

- I do have a 7qt Milodon pan and a high volume WP. Installing an oil cooler will be last IF for some reason the current radiator or new bigger radiator doesn't maintain temperature.

This sounds like I'm dumb, but I cannot yet find an upper source for that oil seep. Difficult to get baby powder to stick to shiny paint. Maddening. But I'll keep at it. The seepage shows as a couple drops of oil at the left rear top of block just at the cylinder head - I need Rick's sharp eye!

 

[Indycars]

So it will be start-ups in the garage for the foreseeable future. I wish my old phone had better sound recording, the car sounds great in person.

Your video will not play, did you forget to "Publish" if so it's not available to the public?

I guess it does play if you click on "Watch on YouTube", you can watch it there. I'm not sure what's going on.

ifficult to get baby powder to stick to shiny paint.

Maybe dust it with some cooking spray oil.

What's the story on the trans? Why does it need rebuilt? What's the ETA?

 

[TXChevy]

Internet challenged here, I'll go back and check. I probably didn't publish to public, just viewable with the link.

Trans was originally out of 1984 Chevy truck, with nothing more than a B&M shift kit (simple plate mod). Last drives yielded slipping - after almost 40 years it's due for a refresh, especially with hp/torque increase. Converter is a Continental 2500 stall that I will re-use.
I've done 700r4, 4rw70, th350/400 before so this is pretty straightforward. I need to make a holder for my engine stand. Rebuild on my usual timeframe after parts are here is about a week. Then time to install and get driveshaft repainted w new u-joints. I've learned not to make time commitments lol.

 

[Indycars]

Maybe this will give you some ideas for that trans fixture. When the website changed software the pics didn't come across with them inline with the text. That's why there is too much room between paragraphs.

Transmission Holding Fixture

I need to get started building my 200-4R transmission for the TBucket, but first I need a fixture to hold the trans vertical while I'm working on it. I wanted something that would work on any trans, so I made it wider than needed, hoping it would fit any trans, no matter how wide it might be...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

Other related info.

Dexron VI ATF Fluid Research

Since I'm going to change to a Dexron VI fluid from the Mercon V that I've been using, I had to do my research first. Ever wonder where the name Dexron came from, well ...... I wanted to get the Dexron VI standard, but since it's $30 or more, I'm going to bypass that step. As near I can...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

Transmission Remote Filter Flow Rate?

I've looked all over and can't find a flow rate for any automatic transmissions going to the cooler. I'm wanting to add a remote filter and it would be helpful to know what kind of flow rate is needed thru the filter. I suspect that most automotive oil filter will have plenty of capacity, but...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

.

 

[TXChevy]

Yes I saw that fixture video too, I'm generally following that style.
Tedious fiddly morning in the heat - even with fans blowing it's rough for me.

I got the fan assembly into place, it was more of a challenge than I remembered.

Tight space but everything clears. No way can the fans be installed from the engine side with radiator in place.


Everything back into place. Those small brackets on the radiator are to support frame for external transmission cooler.


The fan frame blocks any open space between fans and radiator, sort of extends the fan shroud. In the picture, the thinner fan frame is sandwiched between the core support top bar and the radiator.


Next is to wire them up. Everything inside the car is done so it's really running wiring from passenger side fuse/relay block out to the fans.

 

[TXChevy]

Maybe better video access? My tablet shows these as direct links, not sure how they come across to others.

Minor note - I commented on slightly noisy Morel lifters. I've got about an hour on the engine and that noise has almost gone away.

 

[Indycars]

I think if you follow the video this will fix both links on this page and they will start working then. It's just ONE box that needs to have a Check Mark.

 

[TXChevy]

Thank you! I missed that embedding selection.
Maybe I've got it this time...

 

[Indycars]

Yelp, that fixed all the links in your thread !