Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Thank you Grumpy... I thought the same thing but I have been known to be wrong.
Unforgiven Project
- Thread starter Unforgiven
- Start date
Thank you Grumpy... I thought the same thing but I have been known to be wrong.
Maniacmechanic1
solid fixture here in the forum
It may have porting potential.
Hog it out.
It's Ok.
Called looking at all viable options to meet the goals and budget.
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
I have not bought it . But I do not think there would be near enough to hog out anyway Brian.
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Ok Guys, I finally got the block back home.
I like the finish of the bores.! I just need to verify that they where done correctly.
Ryan did an awesome job fabricating a new rear "wet" oil main for me!!
The deck looks very nice and smooth.
The line hone and bore looks to be of quality also. again I need to check sizing.
Ryan fit the caps to one side on the registers and blind doweled the three main center caps. The other side of the caps have about a .030" gap between the register wall and the cap.
This will be no problem with having the dowels installed.
I did notice that they marked the three center caps with the wrong Numbers . I believe they marked them while they where getting doweled because the number 2 cap is marked #1
Not really that big of a deal because the three center caps are splayed.
Arp studs were used instead of bolts.
I did notice that they forgot to drill a hole for the oil dipstick... which will be ok since I
am going to either make or purchase a pan with the stick mounted in it instead. Our trucks sit high in the air , my buddy used a flexible tube that mounted on the side of the pan and ran up
to a point on the frame in the inner fenderwell. Works out nice because he can check the oil
without climbing up on the truck. The oil stick has a twist lock and a lock pin to stay in place, and an o-ring seal to keep out foreign particles . It,s a nice set-up.
I will be gone visiting my son and his family tomorrow so I have to wait till Monday to begin the wash program on the block. It is heavily sprayed down with wd-40 for now while it sits in the garage.
As promised I took a few pics from different angles for you guys to look at.
If anything sticks out that may be of concern.. please speak up. ( Brian... not being a Pontiac motor does not count!) LOL
I like the finish of the bores.! I just need to verify that they where done correctly.
Ryan did an awesome job fabricating a new rear "wet" oil main for me!!
The deck looks very nice and smooth.
The line hone and bore looks to be of quality also. again I need to check sizing.
Ryan fit the caps to one side on the registers and blind doweled the three main center caps. The other side of the caps have about a .030" gap between the register wall and the cap.
This will be no problem with having the dowels installed.
I did notice that they marked the three center caps with the wrong Numbers . I believe they marked them while they where getting doweled because the number 2 cap is marked #1
Not really that big of a deal because the three center caps are splayed.
Arp studs were used instead of bolts.
I did notice that they forgot to drill a hole for the oil dipstick... which will be ok since I
am going to either make or purchase a pan with the stick mounted in it instead. Our trucks sit high in the air , my buddy used a flexible tube that mounted on the side of the pan and ran up
to a point on the frame in the inner fenderwell. Works out nice because he can check the oil
without climbing up on the truck. The oil stick has a twist lock and a lock pin to stay in place, and an o-ring seal to keep out foreign particles . It,s a nice set-up.
I will be gone visiting my son and his family tomorrow so I have to wait till Monday to begin the wash program on the block. It is heavily sprayed down with wd-40 for now while it sits in the garage.
As promised I took a few pics from different angles for you guys to look at.
If anything sticks out that may be of concern.. please speak up. ( Brian... not being a Pontiac motor does not count!) LOL
Attachments
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Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Thanks T-Test. I was thinking along the same lines.. I will etch some arrows on all the caps to point forward though.
Maniacmechanic1
solid fixture here in the forum
Looks Good !
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Thank you Brian.. I can't wait to start the build!
paint, marker etc. tends to wash off, you really should lightly die stamp the main caps
https://www.harborfreight.com/36-pi...mping-set-63675.html?_br_psugg_q=number+stamp
https://www.harborfreight.com/36-pi...mping-set-63675.html?_br_psugg_q=number+stamp
Beautiful Unforgiven !!!
I used an engraving tool to put the last 4 digits from my SS number in several places inside
and out. Could also be used to number the main caps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000302YN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I used an engraving tool to put the last 4 digits from my SS number in several places inside
and out. Could also be used to number the main caps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000302YN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Thanks Rick. I have an engraving tool at work that I will be bringing home to etch in some arrows pointing forward.
Lucky for me that this block is covered in
wd-40 cause my wife refuses to stop writting at the bottom of her to-do list.!
I am just going to have to put on my big boy pants and just walk up to her ..... and ask if I can work on my block this saturday
Lucky for me that this block is covered in
wd-40 cause my wife refuses to stop writting at the bottom of her to-do list.!
I am just going to have to put on my big boy pants and just walk up to her ..... and ask if I can work on my block this saturday
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
https://www.aa1car.com/library/ring_info_speedpro.pdf
According to the website... They say I need a .006 per bore inch for my application.
This would put me at a .02418 ring gap.
The chart shows .024-.026 for a gap.
I was thinking I should gap the top ring at .024 and gap the second ring at .026
What are your thoughts on my procedure.
The motor has a small blower running E-85 and I MAY put a small (200) shot of NOS in the future.
I will be spinning this motor up to 6500 rpm.
Should I be concerned about the E-85 washing down past the rings at the suggested gap. (I read somewhere that this happens with this fuel)
Or am I just reading into this too much.
According to the website... They say I need a .006 per bore inch for my application.
This would put me at a .02418 ring gap.
The chart shows .024-.026 for a gap.
I was thinking I should gap the top ring at .024 and gap the second ring at .026
What are your thoughts on my procedure.
The motor has a small blower running E-85 and I MAY put a small (200) shot of NOS in the future.
I will be spinning this motor up to 6500 rpm.
Should I be concerned about the E-85 washing down past the rings at the suggested gap. (I read somewhere that this happens with this fuel)
Or am I just reading into this too much.
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
By higher side , do you mean you would put the top ring at .026 also?
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Ok , thank you Grumpy!
Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
I have found something that may be of concern on the block machining. Last night , while I was etching some forward arrows on the main caps, I discovered that the new rear oil main thrust surface was mismatched by what I feel is about .003-.005 . I will be bringing an test indicator home from work today to get a TRUE reading of the mismatch.
Is there a tolerance for mismatch for the cap and block thrust surface. Or is this a show stopper?
You could scroll up a few posts and see a pic of the cap mounted on the block.
A thought.... It may not be doweled in place. It may be held by the register, which would
allow me to install the thrust bearing , and the cap would float itself in the proper place "for and aft" then I would torque it to spec. Hopefully thats what I am seeing.
I also noticed something awesome on that cap! Ryan did not drill the pump stud threaded hole through. It is blind. I will not have to worry about the stud protruding into the bearing.
Is there a tolerance for mismatch for the cap and block thrust surface. Or is this a show stopper?
You could scroll up a few posts and see a pic of the cap mounted on the block.
A thought.... It may not be doweled in place. It may be held by the register, which would
allow me to install the thrust bearing , and the cap would float itself in the proper place "for and aft" then I would torque it to spec. Hopefully thats what I am seeing.
I also noticed something awesome on that cap! Ryan did not drill the pump stud threaded hole through. It is blind. I will not have to worry about the stud protruding into the bearing.
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take accurate measurements and bring up the mis match with your machinist,
with several clear pictures and get his take on the situation.
to me it looks like the rear main caps lower thrust bearing surface,
is a recessed couple thousands more to the rear of the block,
than the matching upper block thrust bearing surface,
it may be if the rear main caps not sleeved or pinned,
that a good wack with a mallet ,
will move it into alignment,
but it should be sleeved or pinned , once perfectly aligned,
too assure repeated,
perfect alignment during re-assembly
Have a block with SPLAYED main cap outer bolts will significantly reduce main cap movement
HOLLOW DOWELS that fit into machined recesses,machined around the inner main cap bolts in slight enlarged main bolt cap and block bolt holes with a slight interference fit that extend about 1/4 into each bolt hole, from the main cap /block parting line, tend to significantly reduce main cap movement
A simple modification to the upper thrust bearing may be beneficial in some engines. Install the upper thrust bearing in the block to determine which thrust face is toward the rear of the engine. Using a small, fine tooth, flat file, increase the amount of chamfer to approximately .040" (1 mm) on the inside diameter edge of the bearing parting line. Carefully file at the centrally located oil groove and stroke the file at an angle toward the rear thrust face only, as shown in the illustration below. It is very important not to contact the bearing surface with the end of the file. The resulting enlarged ID chamfer will allow pressurized engine oil from the pre-existing groove to reach the loaded thrust face. This additional source of oiling will reach the loaded thrust face without passing through the bearing clearance first (direct oiling). Since there may be a load against the rear thrust face, oil flow should be restricted by that load and there should not be a noticeable loss of oil pressure. This modification is not a guaranteed "cure-all". However, the modification should help if all other conditions, such as surface finish, alignment, cleanliness and loading are within required limits.
ALLOWING MAIN CAPS TO MOVE< UNDER HIGH LOAD STRESS WILL EVENTUALLY RESULTS IN CRACKED BLOCKS OR MAIN CAPS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/splayed-main-caps.1014/#post-12226
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thrust-bearing-face-wear.15017/#post-84959
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-block-main-cap-movement.6162/#post-19172
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/
with several clear pictures and get his take on the situation.
to me it looks like the rear main caps lower thrust bearing surface,
is a recessed couple thousands more to the rear of the block,
than the matching upper block thrust bearing surface,
it may be if the rear main caps not sleeved or pinned,
that a good wack with a mallet ,
will move it into alignment,
but it should be sleeved or pinned , once perfectly aligned,
too assure repeated,
perfect alignment during re-assembly
Have a block with SPLAYED main cap outer bolts will significantly reduce main cap movement
HOLLOW DOWELS that fit into machined recesses,machined around the inner main cap bolts in slight enlarged main bolt cap and block bolt holes with a slight interference fit that extend about 1/4 into each bolt hole, from the main cap /block parting line, tend to significantly reduce main cap movement
A simple modification to the upper thrust bearing may be beneficial in some engines. Install the upper thrust bearing in the block to determine which thrust face is toward the rear of the engine. Using a small, fine tooth, flat file, increase the amount of chamfer to approximately .040" (1 mm) on the inside diameter edge of the bearing parting line. Carefully file at the centrally located oil groove and stroke the file at an angle toward the rear thrust face only, as shown in the illustration below. It is very important not to contact the bearing surface with the end of the file. The resulting enlarged ID chamfer will allow pressurized engine oil from the pre-existing groove to reach the loaded thrust face. This additional source of oiling will reach the loaded thrust face without passing through the bearing clearance first (direct oiling). Since there may be a load against the rear thrust face, oil flow should be restricted by that load and there should not be a noticeable loss of oil pressure. This modification is not a guaranteed "cure-all". However, the modification should help if all other conditions, such as surface finish, alignment, cleanliness and loading are within required limits.
ALLOWING MAIN CAPS TO MOVE< UNDER HIGH LOAD STRESS WILL EVENTUALLY RESULTS IN CRACKED BLOCKS OR MAIN CAPS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/splayed-main-caps.1014/#post-12226
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thrust-bearing-face-wear.15017/#post-84959
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-block-main-cap-movement.6162/#post-19172
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/
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Unforgiven
solid fixture here in the forum
Yes. That is what I was feeling with my thumbnail . The back side is just opposite of this, That makes me believe that , like you said, a good whack
with the dead blow might bring it into parallel. I will take some measurements today and post some better pics. Also I will talk with Ryan about this also.
Worst case , I can sleeve the cap here at work if it has'nt already been done. I would hate to have them keep the block for another 3 months!
Also, thank you for posting all this information . It really does help me alot!