Unforgiven Project

He is running E85.
Oil will get contaminated quickly running Rich AFR needed for Supercharged or Turbo Boost.
So he needs a top notch 20w50 Race oil.
Nitrous oxide hits do the same.
 
I was just reading grumpys post again and seen where he does not think it is no where near 10 hp to run that BBC pump. I like the idea of the 12 teeth to tame the pulsating that the 7 tooth may do .
Yep .. I figure that blower to eat up about 75 hp. I am upping the lower pully from 6" to 7" I feel this is better than going to a smaller pulley up top. Reason... there would be less belt contact on a smaller pulley that could induce slip.

I am trying to gain as much free hp as I can. I plan on indexing the plugs so the spark kernal faces the valve, and also I will shorten the ground strap a bit to unshroud the spark kernal. I want to add spray bars up top to help cool the springs
also, but have never done this before. I am not sure how to feed the bar. If anyone knows how to do this mod I sure would heed the advise!

Mike suggested going to a 10an for a cooler but i'm having a hard time finding a cooler I like. I will keep searching though. I have budgeted about $150 on the cooler not including the lines.

I am purchasing items as I go along on the build so as to keep it going, That is why I am in a tizzy about the oil pump. When the bottom is done I'll move to the top and purchase the items needed then.
 
Unforgiven said:
I was just reading grumpys post again and seen where he does not think it is no where near 10 hp to run that BBC pump. I like the idea of the 12 teeth to tame the pulsating that the 7 tooth may do .
Yep .. I figure that blower to eat up about 75 hp. I am upping the lower pully from 6" to 7" I feel this is better than going to a smaller pulley up top. Reason... there would be less belt contact on a smaller pulley that could induce slip.

I am trying to gain as much free hp as I can. I plan on indexing the plugs so the spark kernal faces the valve, and also I will shorten the ground strap a bit to unshroud the spark kernal. I want to add spray bars up top to help cool the springs
also, but have never done this before. I am not sure how to feed the bar. If anyone knows how to do this mod I sure would heed the advise!

Mike suggested going to a 10an for a cooler but i'm having a hard time finding a cooler I like. I will keep searching though. I have budgeted about $150 on the cooler not including the lines.

I am purchasing items as I go along on the build so as to keep it going, That is why I am in a tizzy about the oil pump. When the bottom is done I'll move to the top and purchase the items needed then.
Click to expand...
E85 will give some more HP.
20-50 hp & same torque numbers.
Latent cooling effect of alcohol.
 
Yep.. I am counting on the E85 effect for more hp.
I am having Pro Systems build the carb for me when I get closer.. I have been in touch with Patrick and he will receive all the info that Rick calculated out for me.
Some of my buddies run his carbs and swear by them and his service. But... we will talk more on that topic down the road.
We are still stuck in the basement on this build.:)
 
Unforgiven said:
Yep.. I am counting on the E85 effect for more hp.
I am having Pro Systems build the carb for me when I get closer.. I have been in touch with Patrick and he will receive all the info that Rick calculated out for me.
Some of my buddies run his carbs and swear by them and his service. But... we will talk more on that topic down the road.
We are still stuck in the basement on this build.:)
Click to expand...
Run it so to speak.
Lots of power to be found in Fine tuning.
Grumpy knows alot from his racing days & Likewise myself.

Need a Wideband O2. I like AEM. Want to read in Lamba for Racing on Gasoline, Alcohol, E85, Nitromethane 10% mix or so.
Air Fuel Ratio is for stock & mild street performance use.
AEM Wideband UGEO Guage assembly Nice. Have an older model that reads AFR. Should have bought the Lamba model.
Modern to date AEM reads both Lamba & AFR with a flick of a switch.
About $225 on Summit Racing.

Lamba is 1.000 stochiometric correct for a given fuel.
Cover more on that later.
 
Holy crap you guys were busy. Here is my $ .02
You can still use the oil cooler you planned on, I'm assuming you will be mounting it in the bed?
You don't want the LENGTH of the lines to be a restriction, so use the larger -10 lines to compensate.
I believe you can get a -08 fitting for use with -10 lines. Not completely sure about that.
Use the BBC oil pump. 2HP used at most. You could also use the M55HV - 25% more volume than stock.
NEVER use oil restrictors. They will limit the oil to the lifters, which also means less oil to cool the valve springs.
Unless you ARE going to do a spray bar.
Your bobweight is 1771 grams - that's not heavy.
Keep doing the research BEFORE you spend the money.
 
Hello Mike.. yea.. we where focused. hehe

OK.. I was planning on running 10an lines (to the bed of the truck) , But I could only find one cooler I liked (tube and fin) and it only came with 08an fittings.

After more and more reading, I am really leaning toward the stock BBC pump now. Unless everyone thinks I would need 25% more because of
the spray bars that I want to install.
I'm going to need help with those.

Yes the bob weight was on the lite side, I just thought that the pistons were on the heavy side. My TRW's are around 550 if I remember correctly.
Not a big deal, it was something I just noticed when inspecting the package.

I am happy with what I have received so far.. I will start the block fill tonight so I can get it ready to be sent out to be bored by the weekend.

I will be placing an order tomorrow for the new cam and lifter set, and a few new tools, ( ring filer, ring squaring tool, degree wheel. and a flex plate turn tool). Prolly pick up the oil pump also.
 
Well I placed the order today! went with the M77 oil pump.
Waiting until next order to get the drive rod and pick up.
 
check both the oil pump pick-up to oil pan floor clearance ,
and oil pump drive shaft length very carefully

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-an-oil-pump-pick-up-tube.1800/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-pump-drive-shafts.123/#post-19025

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/distributors-wont-seat-on-intake.12538/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/distrib-gear-issues.11291/#post-51208

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-convinced-its-the-oil-pump.11085/#post-49370

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-pump-shaft.4966/#post-13781

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-distributor.9946/#post-38325

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/distributor-gear-wear.1701/#post-4658

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shiming-a-distributor.251/#post-1366

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...p-that-just-won-t-clamp-firmly.871/#post-1359

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-high-press-or-both-oil-pump.2294/#post-11706
 
Grumpy... do you think the m77 pump will be up to the task . I forgot to take into account the cooler being in the bed of the truck. I will be using lines with 10an fittings but I have to reduce down to an 08an at the cooler. I am estimating the lines being about 8' long each.
I would like to do all the oil mods Rick has done with his motor along with adding spray bars under the valve covers.
I am starting to second guess not going with a M77HV pump.
 


yes a M77 oil pump should be just fine (in your listed application)
,check both the oil pump pick-up to oil pan floor clearance ,
and oil pump drive shaft length very carefully
OIL PRESSURE read on the oil pressure gauge is a MEASURE of RESISTANCE to oil flow, you can REDUCE the pressure the gauge reads by either increasing the engine clearances or REDUCING the oil viscosity (thickness) so it flows thru the clearances faster with less resistance.(OR INSTALLING A SLIGHTLY WEAKER OIL PUMP BYE_PASS SPRING,that limits the pump pressure before it allows some oil to re-circulate back through the bye-pass valve ,from the high pressure back to the low pressure side of the pump impellers, but only the max pressure you reach is limited by the bye-pass spring,in your oil pressure bye pass circuit and its that spring resistance determines the point where the bye-pass circuit, opens and limits max oil pressure, but the bye-pass circuit has zero to do with anything else, if its functioning correctly,
there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard Chevy engine.
16 lifter to push rod points
16 push rod to rocker arm points
32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends
10 main bearing edges
9 cam bearing edges
16 rod bearing edges
2 distributor shaft leaks
1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.)
once oil exits the bearings or valve train it flows mostly by gravity back to the oil pan sump, but a properly designed windage screen and crank scraper correctly clearanced allows the spinning crank/rotating assembly to act like a directional pump that drags the vast majority of the oil flow back to the sump, by design.
your 55 psi at idle serves no purpose as 15psi-25psi is all thats expected in a new engine with tight clearances using a good 10W30 oil, if your using a higher viscosity than 10w30 its reducing oil flow rates and reducing heat transfer rates, Id suggest using a good 10W30 oil. and use of a 7-8 quart, baffled oil pan and windage tray
GM Small Block Performance Pumps
10550

High volume performance upgrade for M-55HV.
25% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
The 10550 housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide. Uses 5/8” press in screen.





10551

High volume performance upgrade for M155HV.
25% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
The 10551 housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide. Uses 3/4” press in screen.





10552

High volume performance oil pump.
10% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
The 10552 is manufactured with the drive and idler shafts extended to allow for additional support in the cover eliminating dynamic shaft deflection at increased RPM levels.
The cover is doweled to the pump housing to assure alignment of the shaft bores.
Screw in plug retains relief valve spring instead of pin.
Relief hole in cover uses screw in plug instead of pressed cup plug.
All bolts are self locking socket heads, with the wrench supplied.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide. Uses both 3/4” bolt on or press in screen.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Patent No. 5,810,571.

10552C (Anti-Cavitation)

10552CHigh volume performance oil pump.
10% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
Same as the 10552 with the addition of grooves machined in the body and cover. The grooves reduce cavitation effects in high RPM applications.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses both 3/4” bolt on or press in screen.
Using this oil pump will reduce pressure at idle.
The 10552C uses the high pressure spring only.
Racing Applications Only.
Patent No. 5,810,571.

10553

10553High pressure performance upgrade for M-55 & M-55A.
Standard volume oil pump.
The 10553 housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
Manufactured with pink spring installed for higher pressure (M-55A).
To change pump to lower pressure (M-55) install the supplied yellow spring.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
The 10553 uses a 5/8” press in screen.



10554

Performance upgrade for M155. Standard volume oil pump.
The 10554 housing and cover are CNC machined and manganese phosphate coated.
Manufactured with pink spring installed for higher pressure.
To change pump to lower pressure install the supplied yellow spring.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
The 10554 uses a 3/4” press in screen.



10555

High Volume performance upgrade for the 10550 oil pump.
25% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
The 10555 is manufactured with the drive and idler shafts extended to allow for additional support in the cover eliminating dynamic shaft deflection at increased RPM levels.
The cover is doweled to the pump housing to assure alignment of the shaft bores.
Screw in plug retains relief valve spring instead of pin.
Relief hole in cover uses screw in plug instead of pressed cup plug.
All bolts are self locking socket heads, with the wrench supplied.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and manganese phosphate coated.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses both 3/4” bolt on or press in screen.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Patent No. 5,810,571


10555C (Anti-Cavitation)

High volume performance upgrade for the 10550 oil pump.
25% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
Same as the 10555 with the addition of grooves machined in the body and cover. The grooves reduce cavitation effects in high RPM applications.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses both 3/4” bolt on or press in screen.
Using this oil pump will reduce pressure at idle.
The 10555C uses the high pressure spring only.
Racing Applications Only.
Patent No. 5,810,571



10990

High volume performance upgrade for the M-99HV-S.
Increase in volume of 25% over stock oil pump.
The 10990 is a Big Block style oil pump made to fit the Small Block applications.
The drive and idler shafts have been extended to allow for additional support in the cover. Additional support eliminates dynamic shaft deflection at increased RPM levels.
The cover is doweled to the pump housing to assure alignment of the shaft bores.
The relief valve has a screw-in plug instead of a pin.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
An additional spring, the original stock replacement is supplied which will reduce bypass pressure if needed.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.
Patent No. 5,810,571.


10990C (Anti-Cavitation)

High volume performance upgrade for the M-99HV-S.
Increase in volume of 25% over stock oil pump.
The same as the 10990 except with the addition of grooves machined in the housing and cover. The grooves reduce cavitation effects in high RPM applications.
Using this oil pump will reduce pressure at idle.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.
Racing applications only.
Patent No. 5,810,571.




GM B.B. Performance Pumps


10770

High volume performance upgrade for M-77HV.
25% increase in volume over stock pump.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.



10774

10774Standard volume performance upgrade for M-77.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.




10778

High volume performance upgrade for the 10770.
Increase in volume of 25% over stock oil pump.
The drive shaft has been manufactured from chrome-moly steel.
The drive and idler shafts have been extended to allow for additional support in the cover. Additional support eliminates dynamic shaft deflection at increased RPM levels.
The cover is doweled to the pump housing to assure alignment of the shaft bores.
The relief valve has a screw-in plug instead of a pin.
The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
An additional spring, the original stock replacement is supplied which will reduce bypass pressure if needed.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.
Patent No. 5,810,571.


10778C (Anti-Cavitation)

High volume performance upgrade for the 10770.
Increase in volume of 25% over stock oil pump.
The same as the 10778 except with the addition of grooves machined in the housing and cover. The grooves reduce cavitation effects in high RPM applications.
Using this oil pump will reduce pressure at idle.
Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide.
Uses 3/4” press in screen.
Racing applications only.
Patent No. 5,810,571
 
Unforgiven said:
Grumpy... do you think the m77 pump will be up to the task . I forgot to take into account the cooler being in the bed of the truck. I will be using lines with 10an fittings but I have to reduce down to an 08an at the cooler. I am estimating the lines being about 8' long each.
I would like to do all the oil mods Rick has done with his motor along with adding spray bars under the valve covers.
I am starting to second guess not going with a M77HV pump.
Click to expand...
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?attachments/motor-021-jpg.11607/

Since the crankshaft is straight everything points to an oil starvation problem.

When Racing anything done to a typical street motor does not matter to me.
Most of the time it spends idle 700 rpm to 4000 rpm peak.
2000 rpm cruising typical with overdrive.

TH 400 it sings up to 5000 rpm at 120 mph with highway gears.

So why compare what street guys do when your WOT Racing ?

Give it all the oil volume you can and pressure your comfortable with.
I can tell you 1st hand over 100 psi drag racing is great.
Danger Zone rpms and it keeps on living.
 
The Racing oils 20w50 have the highest phosphorus and zinc levels he needs with a Flat Tappet Cam Grumpy.
Mud everywhere plugging up the radiator instant.
 
Maniacmechanic1 said:
Mud everywhere plugging up the radiator instant.
Click to expand...

Nope! My radiator is in the bed near the front of the box.. It stays clean. I made a custom metal shroud that helps alot.
Now that I have my cage installed... I will sheet the rear bars with .032 metal for additional cover. All the coolers will be under a roof per say.
They will stay even cleaner with that mod. ;)

I do like the 20w/50 oils though. Its prolly what saved the old motor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top