200-4r Rebuild Questions

[jelco]

That’s right. CZF! I paid about $200. I think the salvage yard over here charges too much. I can never talk them down.

 

[Indycars]

Doesn't the tag say "CRF" ?

 

[jelco]

Doesn't the tag say "CRF" ?

Yes, mine says CRF. I was just agreeing that CZF is the better one. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[jelco]

Images of 646 drilled hole

comparing 604s, I don’t know why they’re different.

611 bent due to my “plier press”. Is that a big deal or do I need to try to straighten it?

My original 503 missing 501.

 

[Indycars]

Images of 646 drilled hole

Looks good.

comparing 604s, I don’t know why they’re different.

That maybe how they balanced the direct drum. As long as the tangs of the Input Drum 640 fits
properly into the Direct Clutch Drum 604, you should be good.

611 bent due to my “plier press”. Is that a big deal or do I need to try to straighten it?

Well it couldn't hurt to try and straighten it, so long as you don't make it worse. I've bent those
spring packs also, so it happens.

My original 503 missing 501.

That will have to be replaced if you are using a lockup torque converter.
See page 39 of CK's book.

 

[jelco]

Waiting on solid Teflon rings and a bushing until I can put things back together. I wasn’t able to figure out where these two washers in the kit are supposed to go. I forgot to take a picture of all the others before putting them in their place but I noted their ATSG #s

 

[Indycars]

I wasn’t able to figure out where these two washers in the kit are supposed to go.

I'm not sure about the smaller silver washer, but the black plastic item looks like a Thrust Washer 643.

 

[jelco]

643 is already accounted for

 

[Indycars]

Maybe they shipped you two of them by mistake. Is it the right size ?

Maybe some better pics of both sides might help, with some dimensions. I have no idea what
the OD, ID and thickness are by looking at a photo?

 

[jelco]

There was just one like this. I'll do that.

A while back I saw in one of your posts that the 3-2 control valve spring (316) is to be eliminated and plugged with ¼” plug, but there is no page # for reference. I can't find where it is in the book. Do you have any idea?

 

[Indycars]

That was part of CK's Shift Re-calibration Kit. I put a copy of the manual in your folder.

 

[jelco]

Thanks. And the image of 316 is on the previous page of this thread.

Looks like you sent me 516 wave spring by mistake instead of 651. And looks like a broken oil seal ring for the center support but I already have new ones.

The 611 springs you sent are 0.29” longer than the ones I have. I guess they’re not all the same. No big deal since I have the 2nd trans now.

Image of the washer I asked about. ID 2.36”, OD 3.11”, thickness 0.153”.
And the smaller washer ID 0.444”, OD 1”, thickness 0.037”

 

[Indycars]

Thanks. And the image of 316 is on the previous page of this thread.

Did you read the very last page of the CK Re-Calibration Kit manual, it's important ?

BTW, when the manual had instructions for 3 different levels of performance, I following the
lowest performance option because of the light weight car I had. This is what CK suggested
when I asked him.

Looks like you sent me 516 wave spring by mistake instead of 651. And looks like a broken oil seal ring for the center support but I already have new ones.

I'm sorry that was not the right wave spring! That ring was not broke when I shipped it, but you
were after the springs weren't you?

The 611 springs you sent are 0.29” longer than the ones I have. I guess they’re not all the same. No big deal since I have the 2nd trans now.

I compared them to a complete spring pack that I had and visually they were the same size.

Image of the washer I asked about. ID 2.36”, OD 3.11”, thickness 0.153”.

Although the ATSG diagram does not show the details of the shape (grooves and the notch in the OD),
the dimension match with a thrust washer I have labeled as 659.

And the smaller washer ID 0.444”, OD 1”, thickness 0.037”

I still have no idea where this washer goes to.

The post office website is not correct about their flat rate shipping. It had me believing the cost would be
$4.95, when in reality it cost $8.30. I say this because this mistake was made in your favor.

So can we call it even?

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22265/html/info1_004.htm


.

 

[jelco]

Thanks no problem. I did read the last page and sped read the whole thing. I think you’re right about 659. I think some older transmissions had a plastic washer.

Is there a general rule for bearings? the dvd and manual aren’t clear on all of them. “Black facing out” sometimes depends on the wear. Some new ones have a black side. Image of 529 and 528.

 

[Indycars]

I don't know of any rule you can follow. Just make sure that the surfaces of the parts on both
sides of the thrust bearing allow it to be supported by a flat recessed area.

Have you started to re-assemble the trans yet ?

 

[jelco]

Ok. Yes, I’m starting to reassemble but I haven’t taken the valve body apart yet.
I have a few seals and o-rings that I don’t know what to do with. I’ve gone through all the atsg diagrams and listed them so these in the top left appear to be extra. There’s a couple accumulator piston and servo seals here I haven’t installed yet.

 

[Indycars]

You probably said earlier, but where did you get your seals from ? Did you buy from more than
one place ?

I have a few seals and o-rings that I don’t know what to do with. I’ve gone through all the atsg diagrams and listed them so these in the top left appear to be extra.

So how do you know what seals are extra ? Have you tried to match all your used seals to the new
ones you have and the extras are in the top left corner of your photo ?

 

[jelco]

Transtar 54008B deluxe kit from Carid.com. I think the ones in the top left corner are extra.

It was difficult to assemble the lo/reverse clutch housing but got it in eventually. I rested the output shaft on a brick, old steel clutches, file, the put the shaft in a roll of electrical tape, and a couple washers in the roll of tape, under the shaft. All this helped to center and put the shaft at the right height.
The rear section end play was 0.009” and center end play with the #12 (0.123”) 629 washer was about 0.020”. I have a #13 (0.128”) washer but I thought the 12 would be ok and I didn’t feel like removing the direct drum, forward clutch housing and center support.

Scratch/crack on the case where the servo sits. Looks too small to cause a leak, let’s hope.
How do you measure the servo pin? How would I know if I need a servo pin extender? Is the servo cover/piston supposed to fit tight after securing it with the snap ring? I thought there was supposed to be a little play/spring movement.

Also, did you drill 8 1/8” holes in the backing plate, 507, as well? CK book pg. 49

I measured the front end play with a dial indicator and it’s at 0.040”. I have the (atsg 9) yellow washer, 0.188”. The dvd says to be between 0.004-0.030” without mentioning measuring between the overdrive carrier 524 and the snap ring (which measured 0.032” for me. CK’s tolerance is between 3-6 thousandths when subtracting the two.
Am I ok or do I need the 0.198” washer? It’s out of stock everywhere.

Image of band air check. I couldn’t get the air check on the 601 band to work so I disassembled and reassembled. I tried installing the servo first, one side of the band where the servo pin presses then the anchor pin. Still didn’t work. Any suggestions?

 

[Indycars]

How do you measure the servo pin? How would I know if I need a servo pin extender? Is the servo cover/piston supposed to fit tight after securing it with the snap ring? I thought there was supposed to be a little play/spring movement.

See CK's Book, page 136. The pin should move approximately .060".
I didn't really check this very accurately. I couldn't see the band move, but I could feel it. In my PDF
file of my build thread on Adobe Reader page 177 is where I check this by feel. I did not install an
extension, it was not called for in the Billet Servo I bought from CK. The CK servo probably compensated
in the servo piston dimensions.

Also, did you drill 8 1/8” holes in the backing plate, 507, as well? CK book pg. 49

No, I did not make this modification.

I measured the front end play with a dial indicator and it’s at 0.040”. I have the (atsg 9) yellow washer, 0.188”. The dvd says to be between 0.004-0.030” without mentioning measuring between the overdrive carrier 524 and the snap ring (which measured 0.032” for me. CK’s tolerance is between 3-6 thousandths when subtracting the two.
Am I ok or do I need the 0.198” washer? It’s out of stock everywhere.

If I understand correctly, then you have .008" for your front section end play? (.040 - .032 = .008"). I would
not have a problem with an additional .002" of clearance.

Image of band air check. I couldn’t get the air check on the 601 band to work so I disassembled and reassembled. I tried installing the servo first, one side of the band where the servo pin presses then the anchor pin. Still didn’t work. Any suggestions?

When you say it didn't work, what do you mean? Like I was saying earlier in this post, I could not see the band
move, but I could feel it. You will have to make your best guess or devise a way to measure how far the pin is moving.


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[jelco]

Thanks for the reply.
I don’t know if my math is right because the dvd doesn’t mention the clearance beneath snap ring.
If I were to get a bigger #9 washer and had 0.030” of input shaft play would I have negative 0.002”? Can you have negative clearance?
Isn’t the servo pin supposed to go in the location of the first photo? In the dvd it looks like he simply throws the band in and the pin sits at the location in the second photo.
I’ve tried both methods and didn’t feel the band move. The first method required me to install the servo first then the band.