Planning a new 383 build that is now going to be a 400

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Did you use Por15 on the lifter valley also Rick?

Yes I used Por15 Engine Enamel in the valley.

I don't know of anyone that has used it this way and Por15 people did not
recommend it for this application. Just wanted to throw that disclaimer in
there to let you know it is untested. But I used Rustoleum from the spray
can and it lasted 25 years in the valley of the previous motor out of the
TBucket, so it seems the Por15 should do just as well.

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

but i was wondering, will it change the balancing if he take a piston and change it say from cylinder 1 to cylinder 6? do it matter wich piston is in wich cylinder as far as balancing go or you can just put any piston in any cylinder and it wont change the balancing?

Wondering if the mahle piston are high silicon(4032)? those expand less and have smaller piston-to-wall clearance(less cold engine piston slap). little more prone to cracking under detonation but last longer on a street engine and more scuff resistent.

Moving piston around after balancing won't make any difference. They are all weighed first and then lightened until they all equal the lightest piston. They are not even used when they spin the crank to balance it, they use what's called a bob weight to simulate the piston, wrist pin, rings and 1/2 the rod. Plus they add about 2 grams for oil that would be stuck to the piston during operation.

Sounds like you are talking about the hypereutectic pistons, but I think the Mahle piston that busterrm has are forged pistons. If they are the same piston I used, then the wall clearance will only be about .0025 inches, not the .006-.008 like you might think.

 

[mathd]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Thanks for the answer, i posted before grumpy edited hes post. this make thing much clearer to me about balancing now.

There is 4032 forged piston too thats what i use they expand less and need smaller clearance.
i heard mahle powerpack use 4032 material.
Many people dont like 4032 material but for a street engine ithink its best, resist wear more(ie ring lang)

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Thanks for the answer, i posted before grumpy edited hes post. this make thing much clearer to me about balancing now.

There is 4032 forged piston too thats what i use they expand less and need smaller clearance.
i heard mahle powerpack use 4032 material.

Sorry, I just assumed you were talking about the hypereutectic piston when you mention lower
expansion. I should have known since I have the Mahle pistons!

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

yes the pistons are mahle forged, and from what the literature says it agrees with Indycars. It does say wall clearance needs to be .0025, so when the block was checked the pistons were with it. The final hone was done and the pistons were marked on the flattop with a sharpy to coincide with each cylinder location.

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Did you use Por15 on the lifter valley also Rick?

Yes I used Por15 Engine Enamel in the valley.

I don't know of anyone that has used it this way and Por15 people did not
recommend it for this application. Just wanted to throw that disclaimer in
there to let you know it is untested. But I used Rustoleum from the spray
can and it lasted 25 years in the valley of the previous motor out of the
TBucket, so it seems the Por15 should do just as well.

Did you spray or hand paint the valley and the underside of the block?

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!


The outside was sprayed and the inside was brushed.

I used a foam brush when I could, the bristle brushes were just cheapies and left hairs in the paint. Also be careful with the "Prep & Ready" if you use it, you will want to keep it off any of the machined surfaces like the main bearing saddles, lifter bores and cylinder walls. If you can wait to hone the cylinders that would also be helpful. Then you wont have to worry about getting the Prep & Ready on them and any paint will be removed when honing also. I had to go around and clean drops of paint of the cylinder walls.

You might want to check into using the Microsoft Excel form below, it's what I used to help me with sequencing all the different things that had to happen and getting it in the right order. Below is just a small part of the whole form, it actually has 84 rows and you can add more, but it's also 8 operation wide. If you follow the link there is also a form that can be printed, it's not as wide and it's all black & white.

viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4894

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Been doing some checking, pistons are setup with .0024 -.0027 piston to wall clearance. So the machine shop did a good honing job to match the pistons. So they are varying what about 3/10,000ths. I would say thats pretty close.

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!



Clearances of .0024 -.0027 inches should work very nicely!

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Clearances of .0024 -.0027 inches should work very nicely!

I went back and looked at how you did it Rick. Hmmm, I borrowed a ID micrometer from my machinist buddy at work. Then used a digital set of calipers. In mine the bores were really consistant in size, the pistons were where the differences really were. I expected that though!

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Okay, update is on color of the block and parts. Tommy was feeling funny about high school days and decide on Columbia Blue(block) and Scarlet Red (accessory parts).
Hahahahaha !!! Those are our high school colors, weird huh! Oh well, what ever floats his boat! Oh, Rick I showed him the pics of your build and he is in favor of using POR15 paint products, we just have to find the colors. We will use the prep inside the block and paint it scarlet red also.

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Should there be any gap at all in the file fit rings?

Unless they are of the gapless design, then yes. There should be instructions in the box.

I used ( Top / 2nd / Oil ) .022 / .024 / .018 and I have a 4.125 inch bore.

I used the formula you gave in your SHP build, funny it is same mahle uses, hahahahahahahahaha!

top ring = 4.03 X .005 = .02015 (use .020)
2nd ring= 4.03 X .005 = .02015 (use .020)
Oil ring= .015

 

[grumpyvette]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

BTW IF YOU SELECT GAPLESS PISTON RINGS, THEY HAVE TWO PIECES THAT EACH MUST BE GAPPED< THE IDEA IS THAT THE TWO GAPS IN THE SET ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE PISTON GROOVE

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1795

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Okay, update is on color of the block and parts. Tommy was feeling funny about high school days and decide on Columbia Blue(block) and Scarlet Red (accessory parts).
Hahahahaha !!! Those are our high school colors, weird huh! Oh well, what ever floats his boat! Oh, Rick I showed him the pics of your build and he is in favor of using POR15 paint products, we just have to find the colors. We will use the prep inside the block and paint it scarlet red also.

Sounds like you might need a volume control for that paint combination! I know a lot of people like the por15, I've yet to test it with the engine running to see how it holds up. Did you notice how long it has to dry before you can start the engine???

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

no we don't actual have the paint yet. The paint store is going to have to order the paint and then do a color mix, seems columbia blue isn't asked for normally.

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

BTW IF YOU SELECT GAPLESS PISTON RINGS, THEY HAVE TWO PIECES THAT EACH MUST BE GAPPED< THE IDEA IS THAT THE TWO GAPS IN THE SET ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE PISTON GROOVE

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795

The rings are standard rings Grumpy, so we just have to file fit them to the cylinders and pistons. From what I have seen and read about gapless, I don't want to use them.

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!


Be prepared to wait awhile before you start the engine. For some people like my self it's not problem, but for others it maybe a concern.

http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/engi ... ctions.pdf

Quoted from the instructions on their website:

Dry Time: Allow 8 hours for enamel to dry tack-free. Wait
4-6 days before starting engine.

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Oh that will not be a problem. Probably be months before it will be started!

 

[busterrm]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Update! Change of plans, I talked him out of the school colors, paint will be chevy orange and black for the accessory parts. Tommy is moving along with the block and its looking pretty good. I went through and gapped the rings, I fit each set of rings with each bore, bagged and tagged them. I cleaned the pistions and rods seperately assembled them, bagged an tagged them also. Also I did a plasticgauge on all the journals mains and rods, rods measured .001 - .0015 , mains were the same. I have a question about the bevel on the main thrust bearing, what side and do you do it to both halves of the bearing?

 

[Indycars]

Re: Planning a new 383 build!


Is this the mod you are talking about, the one that provides extra oil to the the
rear thrust face???

The GREEN (B) surface is the correct place to make this modification. I only filed it
on the upper half on my engine.



Below is what mine looked like.



You should post some pics of the block......remember we do like pics here!!!