Planning a new 383 build that is now going to be a 400
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busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
Major screw up! Tommy was deburring the block, even though I told him I preferred him to not use a grinding wheel on his grinder, he was down inside the bottom end and hung up his wheel and hit one of the bores on even numbered bore side. The mark is right in the middle of the stroke area of the cylinder. I am going to have to take it to the machine shop and see if it will bore out. It is really not that deep but could cause a ring failure in that cylinder. I am thinking it will bore out, if we bore it 4.04. That having been said, we will have to change pistions. He is almost done with the deburring, so I told him to finish it up, will take it to the machine shop then.
Stay tuned for further developments.
Major screw up! Tommy was deburring the block, even though I told him I preferred him to not use a grinding wheel on his grinder, he was down inside the bottom end and hung up his wheel and hit one of the bores on even numbered bore side. The mark is right in the middle of the stroke area of the cylinder. I am going to have to take it to the machine shop and see if it will bore out. It is really not that deep but could cause a ring failure in that cylinder. I am thinking it will bore out, if we bore it 4.04. That having been said, we will have to change pistions. He is almost done with the deburring, so I told him to finish it up, will take it to the machine shop then.
Stay tuned for further developments.
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
OUCH!, but before you panic, talk to your machinist, you might be able to bore only that one cylinder and just use a slightly over sized piston in that bore alone OR you might find the damage is mostly cosmetic and can be honed out,the one over sized piston sounds half- assed but if it balanced to match the rest of the set, of pistons, the difference will be almost negligible to engine performance
thats one reason I prefer a using a dremel tool,while I work near the cam tunnel doing clearance work and removing casting flash, and not my die grinder that I use near the block rails grinding rod clearance or in most of the block clearance work, thats not near machined surfaces, yes its slow but its very un-likey to cause similar problems
yellow circle areas best done with dremel tool
BELT SANDER WORKS REALLY WELL HERE
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=428
these AIR COMPRESSOR POWERED extended reach, die grinders, from harbor freight , (PICTURE BELOW_) are cheap throw away designs, but cheap enough that you can easily buy several, use them until they become unserviceable , then you simply pitch them in the dumpster and grab a new one.
Ive purchased several each time I visit HF. as they come in very handy, these are cheap throw away tools but like shop rags they are very useful
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dremel-4000-3-3 ... 25798cb939
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-die-gr ... 99698.html
OUCH!, but before you panic, talk to your machinist, you might be able to bore only that one cylinder and just use a slightly over sized piston in that bore alone OR you might find the damage is mostly cosmetic and can be honed out,the one over sized piston sounds half- assed but if it balanced to match the rest of the set, of pistons, the difference will be almost negligible to engine performance
thats one reason I prefer a using a dremel tool,while I work near the cam tunnel doing clearance work and removing casting flash, and not my die grinder that I use near the block rails grinding rod clearance or in most of the block clearance work, thats not near machined surfaces, yes its slow but its very un-likey to cause similar problems
yellow circle areas best done with dremel tool
BELT SANDER WORKS REALLY WELL HERE
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=428
these AIR COMPRESSOR POWERED extended reach, die grinders, from harbor freight , (PICTURE BELOW_) are cheap throw away designs, but cheap enough that you can easily buy several, use them until they become unserviceable , then you simply pitch them in the dumpster and grab a new one.
Ive purchased several each time I visit HF. as they come in very handy, these are cheap throw away tools but like shop rags they are very useful
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dremel-4000-3-3 ... 25798cb939
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-die-gr ... 99698.html
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
I had a similar experience, but no damage was done. But I was working
close to a machined surface in the bottom end.
When the cartridge roll started unwinding it became so far out of
balance that it bent, as you can see in the picture. For a brief second
it was like holding on to a vibrator. It makes a hell of a noise to.
Let us know how it works out!
I had a similar experience, but no damage was done. But I was working
close to a machined surface in the bottom end.
When the cartridge roll started unwinding it became so far out of
balance that it bent, as you can see in the picture. For a brief second
it was like holding on to a vibrator. It makes a hell of a noise to.
Let us know how it works out!
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busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
I agree Grumpy, I don't have a dremmel, but I use the cartridge rolls like Rick(Indycars) uses. He was deburring the area around the clearance spots at the bottom of the cylinders for the longer stroke and it hung up and jumped out of his hand and hit the bore. I will let the machinist look at it and see what happnens. I will decide what to do then. It never occurred to me to have that cylinder bored and use a oversize piston, having it balanced to the rest of the pistons. I am hoping its not too bad! I am just wondering if you can get a piston .005 oversized. I went over today and put oil in the bore and laid some thin plastic over the site it looks to be about 1/4 long and maybe 1/8 wide at the deepest point.
I am hoping we can bore it .005 and it be clear, crossing my fingers here! With my calculations with a engine having 7 cylinders @ 4.03 bore and one @ 4.035 it only make a difference of .11 ci bringing it closer to the actual 383 size. All 8 being same is 382.67 ci and one .005 larger is 382.78 ci . It will only change the DCR in that cylinder by .02, normally 8.22 and one cylinder being 8.24. Will that cause any problems Grumpy?
I agree Grumpy, I don't have a dremmel, but I use the cartridge rolls like Rick(Indycars) uses. He was deburring the area around the clearance spots at the bottom of the cylinders for the longer stroke and it hung up and jumped out of his hand and hit the bore. I will let the machinist look at it and see what happnens. I will decide what to do then. It never occurred to me to have that cylinder bored and use a oversize piston, having it balanced to the rest of the pistons. I am hoping its not too bad! I am just wondering if you can get a piston .005 oversized. I went over today and put oil in the bore and laid some thin plastic over the site it looks to be about 1/4 long and maybe 1/8 wide at the deepest point.
I am hoping we can bore it .005 and it be clear, crossing my fingers here! With my calculations with a engine having 7 cylinders @ 4.03 bore and one @ 4.035 it only make a difference of .11 ci bringing it closer to the actual 383 size. All 8 being same is 382.67 ci and one .005 larger is 382.78 ci . It will only change the DCR in that cylinder by .02, normally 8.22 and one cylinder being 8.24. Will that cause any problems Grumpy?
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
I,ve seen similar engines built and run for decades and not a single one had the least problem related to the slightly different dimensions or related factors from the repairs.
get the balance work done and ring gaps, bore clearances the same and youll be fine, theres more variation due to the slight differences in cylinder to cylinder heat and fuel/air distribution that the minimal change in bore size might cause
busterrm said:
I,ve seen similar engines built and run for decades and not a single one had the least problem related to the slightly different dimensions or related factors from the repairs.
get the balance work done and ring gaps, bore clearances the same and youll be fine, theres more variation due to the slight differences in cylinder to cylinder heat and fuel/air distribution that the minimal change in bore size might cause
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
Bore # 4 is the one with the mark, tommy finished today and will take it to the machine shop tommorrow. I have already called my machinist and told him what happened, he had encouraging words and said he has seem that many times and said most times honing will get rid of it, and if not boring .005 will clear it for sure. He did say Mahle can make a piston to match the over bore. I am just how close the boring will be, I already had the pistons clearanced checked, the bores are right at 4.03, so it will be 4.035. I just hope they can match the new piston to the bore as close as the others.
Bore # 4 is the one with the mark, tommy finished today and will take it to the machine shop tommorrow. I have already called my machinist and told him what happened, he had encouraging words and said he has seem that many times and said most times honing will get rid of it, and if not boring .005 will clear it for sure. He did say Mahle can make a piston to match the over bore. I am just how close the boring will be, I already had the pistons clearanced checked, the bores are right at 4.03, so it will be 4.035. I just hope they can match the new piston to the bore as close as the others.
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
Sticking my tongue out! I talked to him bout that, and told him you guys want pics. We are probably a month from assembly, I only go over to work for any length of time on weekends. I'll get some pics of final assembly! Hey how far are you from putting together your tranny? 26th is when I plan on driving up to your place.
Sticking my tongue out! I talked to him bout that, and told him you guys want pics. We are probably a month from assembly, I only go over to work for any length of time on weekends. I'll get some pics of final assembly! Hey how far are you from putting together your tranny? 26th is when I plan on driving up to your place.
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
Okay, got the block back and had to bore it to 4.035, Tommy had to call Mahle to order the piston, its going to be a expensive mistake. New piston should be here next week, and off to the machine shop it will go with the balance sheet to be matched to the other pistons.
Okay, got the block back and had to bore it to 4.035, Tommy had to call Mahle to order the piston, its going to be a expensive mistake. New piston should be here next week, and off to the machine shop it will go with the balance sheet to be matched to the other pistons.
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
Really pictures aren't my greatest thing anyway Rick. I never think about taking pictures, more into doing the work, not that I don't like taking pictures. I just never really think about it.Indycars said:
You know......I'm not sure there is any engine being built. I don't think there has been a SINGLE PICTURE of this so called 383! :lol:
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
hahahahahahahahaha! Well, catastrophe strikes again! Its funny I am never around, somehow the block fell off the engine stand or the stand tipped over and the block hit the ground hard. So now we have a screwed up block. It is not repairable, The entire section forward of the # 2 bore is completely broke off and the water jackets are exposed. I am just beside myself and Tommy's wife is lived with their daughter. So Tommy calls mahle to stop the new piston being made. He still wants to build it, so I told him to contact Milt Clark here in town and order a Dart SHP block. The new block is supposed to be here next week. He is going to sell the pistons and buy 400 pistons. He ordered the same block you have Rick. I will go down to Milt Clark's warehouse friday and pick it up. So I may bring it with me next weekend to OKC.
hahahahahahahahaha! Well, catastrophe strikes again! Its funny I am never around, somehow the block fell off the engine stand or the stand tipped over and the block hit the ground hard. So now we have a screwed up block. It is not repairable, The entire section forward of the # 2 bore is completely broke off and the water jackets are exposed. I am just beside myself and Tommy's wife is lived with their daughter. So Tommy calls mahle to stop the new piston being made. He still wants to build it, so I told him to contact Milt Clark here in town and order a Dart SHP block. The new block is supposed to be here next week. He is going to sell the pistons and buy 400 pistons. He ordered the same block you have Rick. I will go down to Milt Clark's warehouse friday and pick it up. So I may bring it with me next weekend to OKC.
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
busterrm,
Sorry to hear about the death of Tommy's block, that's got to be expensive! :shock:
I assume you know that block comes in two different bore sizes..... 4.0" and 4.125". It's the very same block, so the 4.0" has another .125" of metal in the bores.
Are you bringing the block because it's already in your truck or is there some other reason??? If you forget it, like you forgot something last time, I'm not shipping it back, but I will split the money I get for it with you.
busterrm,
Sorry to hear about the death of Tommy's block, that's got to be expensive! :shock:
I assume you know that block comes in two different bore sizes..... 4.0" and 4.125". It's the very same block, so the 4.0" has another .125" of metal in the bores.
Are you bringing the block because it's already in your truck or is there some other reason??? If you forget it, like you forgot something last time, I'm not shipping it back, but I will split the money I get for it with you.
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!
He is not going to be home next weekend, so I will pick it up. Yeah I know if we buy the 4.00 bore we'll have to bore it .030, if we buy the 4.125 bore, get new 400 pistons. I wonder if Mahle will take these pistons and give us credit toward a set of 400 pistons. I don't want to bore a brand new block.
He is not going to be home next weekend, so I will pick it up. Yeah I know if we buy the 4.00 bore we'll have to bore it .030, if we buy the 4.125 bore, get new 400 pistons. I wonder if Mahle will take these pistons and give us credit toward a set of 400 pistons. I don't want to bore a brand new block.