TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

[Indycars]

Last time I said I was about 60% done with the case......I would like to correct that
statement. "I only have 60% left to finishing the case". As usual I can't stop once I
get started.

But I have also been working on the internals of the trans. The thrust bearing in the
OD planetary carrier has to tested in place. Your fingers are not going to fit down in
there, but you can use a socket and place it on top of the torrington bearing. Rotate
and feel very carefully with your fingers for any roughness.




I can't leave sharp edges alone. I have been using a carbide burr and then a cartridge
roll to smooth them out.



Below you can see that I have checked the endplay of the planetary gears. I also
checked the clearance in-and-out from the centerline of the trans. Rotate them
and feel for smooth rotation on the needle bearing inside.



Below you can see the difference between the CKP clutch housing and the
OEM clutch housing. When using the CKP housing, the turbine shaft will
need to be trimmed to 0.5" from it's stock dimension of 0.8". The difference
is in the depth it sticks into the housing. Chris at CKP said it does not
support the shaft, but only supplies lubrication.

 

[DorianL]

Mmmmm, makes me want to rebuild another!

 

[grumpyvette]

Mmmmm, makes me want to rebuild another!

those pictures make ME want to have both you guys over here if I ever decide to refurbish my 4l80e because right now Id be much more likely to poke it with a long stick so it doesn,t bite me!

 

[Indycars]

Mmmmm, makes me want to rebuild another!

those pictures make ME want to have both you guys over here if I ever decide to refurbish my 4l80e because right now Id be much more likely to poke it with a long stick so it doesn,t bite me!

You would be pulling your hair out in no time!

Picture this, each of us on both sides of you giving different opinion for couple
hours straight......"Do this, no Dorian you got it all wrong, do it this way"

 

[busterrm]

Now now, one at a time boys. Lets not get Grumpy all grumpy. hahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Indycars]

Now now, one at a time boys. Lets not get Grumpy all grumpy. hahahahahahahahaha!

When he gets like that, all you have to do is distract him with a picture
of a 2 legged deer! Eases his mind in seconds!!

 

[grumpyvette]

I might be old but Im not blind or dead so yeah1 theres a few things that make me smile

 

[busterrm]

Two legged deer huh! I was wondering why my buddies take their felt hat, starched blue jeans, nice shirt, and belt when they go hunting. When the four legged hunting is done, they go after the two legged variety.

 

[Indycars]

It's been awhile since I last posted in this topic, but I've been waiting on parts at the machine shop.

I have a question about where to machine material off for a modification suggest in the
CK Performance book on the 200-4R transmission.

Quickly ..... the general idea is to replace the plastic thrust washer with a roller thrust
bearing. Since the roller bearing is thicker than the washer, material has to be machined
off to compensate for the thickness change.




Below I'm trying to show what surfaces are the Center Support and what surfaces are
the Direct Clutch Housing when they are assembled.



Below I'm trying to show where the thrust washer makes contact with the Direct Clutch Housing.



Below you can start to see how these parts fit together and the two components
that bear on each other thru the thrust washer.



Below is the fully assembled section.



This is where the CK Performance book does NOT make sense to me. Since the
thrust bearing contacts the Direct Clutch Housing, then material would have
to be removed from this component, not the rear journal on the Center Support as
the CK Performance book suggests.



Most likely DorianL will have to answer this, if he made this modification. But I'm
listening if anyone has an opinion.

 

[busterrm]

Uh Rick that is greek to me. I am so glad I did mine just plain and simple rebuild with shift kit. Dang, you are cafuzing me all to hell :?

 

[DorianL]

Rick, I gotta catch a plane for Rome in 20 min... I'll get a look at this at the hotel this evening - internet access permitting...

BBS

 

[Indycars]

Thanks Dorian, certainly your job get first priority!

 

[Indycars]

Finally I get to put something together, rather than tearing something apart with this transmission!

I got lucky in that the machine shop I picked to do my work on this trans; it’s the same shop that shortened my oil pump drive shaft for the engine I built. Buddy is in his late 60’s, but is impressed with the amount of detail and modification I want to do. He is also a GREAT resource in that he also owns a transmission repair shop, so he is always giving me tips about this-and-that. One of our conversation lasted for two hours. Recently I showed up on a Saturday with the pump and a valve that I could not remove. Forty-Five minutes later I was on my way with the my pump and a replacement valve he dug up, since he had to drill-and-tap mine to get it out…….AND AT NO CHARGE, ABSOLUTELY FREE!

Below you can see the two valve lineups. Noted is the CKP TV Boost Valve that they supplied in their “2004R Shift Recalibration Kit #24RSRLA” to help with the pump pressures. The valve lineup in the foreground is all GM stock pieces.



You can see how much different the stock pieces are, compare to the CKP pieces.



Below is a section of the manual that came with the shift kit, it explains things better than I can. Pay attention to the underlined text, it speaks specifically about the valves in the picture.

2004R SHIFT RECALIBRATION KIT #24RSRKlA
This easy to install kit includes all the necessary parts to recalibrate the hydraulic circuitry of the GM2004R transmission for high performance street and drag strip usage. The main focus of this kit is to reduce clutch and band slippage common with the factory hydraulic calibration. All of the components in this kit work together to achieve the desired results. Mixing and matching parts and tech from other kits produce undesirable results and make it difficult for us to assist you if there are problems or issues that the kit has not corrected, or result after installation.
New .555" TV boost valve ,and .296" intermediate boost valves and a heavy duty pressure regulator spring significantly raise transmission mainline pressure to increase clutch and band apply pressures. This reduces friction element failure and excessive heat build up during and after ratio changes.

All my parts ready for assembly. Note the #690 casting number, it’s the more desirable piece, because it has a lip at the front to stop the bushing from moving. Buddy found this in his parts bin for me along with the 10 vane pump rotor you see in the picture, mine was a 7 vane. There are three possible choices, 7, 10 and 13 vanes.



I put Vaseline in the groove to hold the O-Ring Seal and Oil Seal Ring in place while I turned it over and placed it into the pump housing.





Getting the Dual Pump Slide Spring installed was the hardest part of putting the pump together. I remember something that Buddy the machinist told me. I put the spring in the C-Clamp so that the spring was just barely sticking out of the clamp. Tightened it down until the spring was smaller than the gap it was going into and then I just quickly pushed it out of the clamp.



This is what it looks like just before I closed things up and installed the other half of the pump case. If you go back to the beginning of the thread you will see some pics of a bunch of metal fragments. That was what was left of the “Pump Vane Rings”, YOU MUST INSTALL HARDENED PUMP RINGS , when rebuilding any 200-4R pump.



Install the 5 pump bolts, but don’t tighten them. The DVD recommended two 6” hose clamps, but I liked the idea of using the transmission case that the pump was going into for Aligning the two pump halves. Just put the pump in backward so you can get to the bolts.



After I slide the pump into the case, I still had to look thru the holes and rotate one pump half so the holes lined-up. The case only aligned the outside perimeter. Next I slide a phillips head screwdriver into a hole to hold the pump while I torqued the five pump bolts to 18 ft/lbs or 216 in/lbs.



To make sure the pump is assembled properly, install it on the torque converter. Remember those two lugs I pointed out above in a picture. Those will engage the converter and when you rotate the pump housing it’s turning the pump rotor inside along with the vanes. It should rotate smoothly.



Download the complete 22 page manual below:

Hope you find this helpful, Later guys!

 

[Indycars]

For some reason I find it more difficult to post to my trans topic then I did to my
engine topic. I guess I just feel quite lost and not sure what direction I'm going, hell
it feels like I'm going every direction. I've got part at the machine shop, some
parts are back and I'm still working thru the book for the next trip to the machine
shop. By the time I get part back, I've forgotten what they are called and where
they go.

As you can see in the pictures, I've started labeling all the parts as I read thru the
book and decide on what modification to make. I guess I just have to post as things
come along, but it will not be in any logical sequence for the most part.

Below you can see how I like to make decisions and understand what I'm reading. I
need the ATSG manual with all the part ID numbers so I don't have to flip back-and-forth
in the CKP book as I read. I just loose my focus when I have go to another page to
see the picture or diagram and then go back to the page where I'm reading. Also I
like to get the parts directly in front of me so I can examine them as I go.

 

[grumpyvette]

DON,T FEEL YOUR LOST, YOU HAVE ALREADY PROVEN YOUR FAR MORE SKILLED THAN MOST OF THE PEOPLE POSTING HERE AND all of us LEARN, BY getting in over our heads or feeling uncomfortable learning new skills, THAT IN TIME BECOME FAMILIAR AND FAR LESS INTIMIDATING.
I know as far as transmissions go, Im going to seek expert help a great deal of the time simply because I KNOW I don,t know as much on the subject as ID like to so I try to learn and absorb all I can watching guys that have more experience in that area of expertise

 

[Indycars]

DON,T FEEL YOUR LOST, YOU HAVE ALREADY PROVEN YOUR FAR MORE SKILLED THAN MOST OF THE PEOPLE POSTING HERE AND all of us LEARN, BY getting in over our heads or feeling uncomfortable learning new skills, THAT IN TIME BECOME FAMILIAR AND FAR LESS INTIMIDATING.
I know as far as transmissions go, Im going to seek expert help a great deal of the time simply because I KNOW I don,t know as much on the subject as ID like to so I try to learn and absorb all I can watching guys that have more experience in that area of expertise

I like the way you tell me not to feel lost, but you are going to seek expert help. :lol:

Now that's a real confidence builder !!!

 

[grumpyvette]

I was referring to myself,in that statement where I feel a bit over my head, in the personal process Im going to be forced into shortly of converting my 4L80E to a full manual controlled transmission in my big block c4 corvette swap.
None of us knows everything and we never will, part of this hobby is a constant process of upgrading your skills.
I should have made that clearer, frankly I'm rather intimidated, but I'm going to do the same thing your doing now, read all I can, and hopefully find someone who has previously done the project so I can get some guidance like your getting from DORIANL.
but having been in very similar circumstances before, I.E. the first MUNCIE 4SPEED TRANS, I rebuilt , over 40 years ago, and the first TH400 I helped a friend rebuild,about 30 years ago I do remember that rather familiar feeling. I know I,ll get thru it one way or another and gain some skills and tools during the process.

 

[Indycars]

No problem Grumpy, it just hit me funny, so I HAD to take advantage
of the situation for a good laugh !!! :lol:

Ask my wife, I'm good as twisting words around to support my
view point!

 

[grumpyvette]

No problem Grumpy, it just hit me funny, so I HAD to take advantage
of the situation for a good laugh !!! :lol:

Ask my wife, I'm good as twisting words around to support my
view point!

you have obviously gone to the same classes as my wife! she has the ability to twist anything I say or she says to HER advantage or use anything I say against me, I think all wifes attend those classes, and are forced to acquire those skills, before they get married , so my question is how did you convince the wife to loan you the classes text books?

 

[Indycars]

, so my question is how did you convince the wife to loan you the classes text books?

I learned from TV lawyer shows that you should never ask a question you don't already
know the answer to. So I sneak around in the back of her walk-in closet.