TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project
- Thread starter Indycars
- Start date
busterrm said:
That touchy-feely stuff get to you I see! :lol:
I'm thinking about waiting on any paint until I've installed it and am
happy with the way it performs. Then I can pull it and paint it. When
I do paint, I might just paint is Silver like the inside of the engine.
DorianL said:
What plans do you have Dorian for your trans now???
I hope you are right, but just in case, I'm trying to have the right attitude. That
way if I do have to pull it and make some changes before I can drive the car, I
won't be so bummed out!
Yes I trimmed the OD or 4th Clutch Piston (ID# 534) to 1.630, so I can add the
3rd friction disk.
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I can't remember if I read this somewhere or whether I just discovered it, but
in any case it good to know that you can get the roller thrust bearings apart
for inspection and cleanup.
There are two ways to determine condition. With the bearing together you
can also roll the bearing slowly and feel for any roughness.
This in NOT the same bearing, but it does show what a bad bearing
might look like.
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It took me awhile but pulling together several resources, looking in a manual, CKP
Parts List and a new one I will show below. I was able to figure out where all the
new steel and friction plates go which included measuring the thickness of each
type of plate and how many of each type.
The best part of this catalog it that it uses pictures instead of a line drawing,
makes it easier to identify what you are looking for.
Note: The ID # that they use do NOT agree with what I'm using in my
pictures from the ATSG manual and the CKP book.
Download the the 9 page file below:
Funny thing, I found this on a Japanese website.
http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/tra ... h20004.pdf
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While I'm waiting on my parts from the machine shop, I started deburring, cleaning and
bagging parts for the vavle body. Now I've already had the VB surface trued to make sure
they are flat, but I came across this statement on page 106 of the CK book. Sometimes
you just get lucky....guess I've been kissing ass enough to warrant a little luck!
I have the dummy bushing ID# 548, instead of the valve train ID# 337 thru 340.
Note the underlined text in the 1st picture.
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Continuing to clean parts for the valve body, but I found a flat spot on one of
the valve ring lands. I know one of the two trans I bought has been into and
been modified a little. The things that any transmission shop would do, because
they knew the weaknesses of this trans.
Looks like it was meant to have the flat spot, the machine marks on the
flat spot are the same machine marks on the body of the valve.
Will have to do some checking and ask someone that knows more that I do.
EDIT on 1/14/13: For some reason I didn't think about looking at my
other valve body at the time I noticed the flat spot. After checking the
valve ID# 330 in the other valve body, it's the same way. Therefore
I don't have a problem and will use the valve in the pictures above.
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If you have ever had to adjust the Throttle Valve (aka TV Valve) and wondered
what that cable on the carburetor was pulling on.....this it it.
When I saw the machining marks on the inside of ID# 306, I went to my 2nd trans
and got the valve body so I could pull the TV valve from it to use. But after I got
it out, it had the same marks. Then while creating this post, I realized the
valve(ID# 305) inside does NOT operate in that area, but the spring(ID# 304) is
actually positioned there. Oh well you learn something new every day .....
Or you must be dead and my date is approaching faster than I like.
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I've been preparing the valve body(VB) and internal components for assembly. I have
all the valve trains cleaned, bagged and ready.
Several months ago I had the VB and aluminum case worm castings lapped at the
machine shop to make sure I had an absolute flat surfaces to create a proper seal.
If you have read more than a few of my posts, you know that I hate sharp
edges. They create stress risers and they draw blood every time you pick up
the part. Now I'm not worried about the stress risers on a VB, but BLOOD is
a problem.
I'm proud of myself...... I was able to stop before it became another polishing project. :lol:
I will need to do some reading, some of the parts I bought from CK Performance
will be going into the valve body. They are part of the shift kit I bought from
Chris. Part # 24RSRKA
Download the manual below:
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The valve body I started with had some water setting in some of the
cavities and rusted.
For every valve lineup I cleaned in the parts washer I used some 600/1000 grit
wet-or-dry paper to clean and remove any burrs. Then I shot some WD40 on
them and bagged them.
Yesterday I started assembling the valve lineups in the valve body and
immediately found a mistake I made. Upon disassembly I some how got
the valve(ID# 341) backward in all my pictures.
I discovered this by observing that there was still a machined bore that
would have nothing in it, which made me suspicious. After checking
several other sources I could see that I had it backwards.
After I turned it around, I noticed it had some drag as it went thru the
different bores. I checked the valve to make sure it didn't have a burr
or maybe some dirt causing the problem, but nothing seemed to help.
I finally sacrificed a SS brush I had for cleaning copper tubing to get all
the way in there and remove the problem. Now I spent plenty of time
cleaning the valve body with the plastic engine brushes that I have.
Actually I made two passes at cleaning the VB, so in total I spent about
an hour or more scrubbing the VB.
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Ive got to say, DAMN IMPRESSIVE!
I know Id have screwed up some place by now if I had zero experience doing that rebuild
I know Id have screwed up some place by now if I had zero experience doing that rebuild
I took 1/2 day of vacation and finished the valve body(VB) assembly today !!!
I've read the CKP manual before, but this time I read it very carefully for any details
that were going to require my attention and then noted on the VB diagram. As I got
into the actually assembly a few details needed clarification, so I emailed Chris
with photos and he got back to me the next day. I had one more follow-up question
for Chris and he got back to me the same day, this time it only took a few hours.
I don't know how I would be able to do this without the digital pictures we have today.
I can't tell you how many times I referenced them. Also you can't take to many, the
slightest difference could be all you need to answer that question in your mind. I
took 55 photos of just the VB dis-assembly and boy am I glad I did. Sometimes I
would reference my photos, the ATSG diagram and the DVD video to get my answer.
Most of my comments will reference the document directly below. Note the numbers 1-7 and
the letter A-F. There is a link at the bottom of the post for a printable B&W document.
I assembled it 1-7 and then A-F, so the first mod was the accumulator spring that
needed replacement. Curious as to the difference I laid the springs side-by-side and
could see that the number of coils was the same. Then I measured the wire diameter,
stock was .024" and CKP spring was .028".
That's all the modifications for side 1-7, but I still had to get the other 6 valve
lineups right on that side.
Starting with A on the other side was where I had a question for Chris, did I have
the right spring, it was so much different. Turns out he did ship me the right spring.
Next was valve lineup B with which also required a question in the same email and
then 2nd question in a follow-up email. What CKP has done is stop this valve from
moving, with the 1/4" cup plug on the front of the valve and the roll pin that goes
right behind the valve so it can't move.
Last mod was the TV valve spring, it was also quite different, but the documentation
was better for this valve lineup.
If you want a B&W document you can print out with the notes on it, then use the
link below:
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A problem I have with most technical publications is they will reference a picture or
diagram and it's on another page, then to make it worse the legend is yet on another
page. So you end up flipping between 3 pages and trying comprehend something that
is very difficult, made even more difficult by constantly turning pages.
I scanned in a section of the CK Performance book and started reformatting it so
pictures would be on the same page as the text, adding paragraphs, pulling
the photos into Photoshop and correcting the exposure. See example directly below
of what a typical page looked like. But I could see after an hour that it would be
impossible to complete the whole book, so I abandon that idea.
But there are two diagrams that are critical and involve 75% of the transmission, so
that was doable. The "Internal Components" diagram was the worst, it had light and
dark portions in the components. The legend was on a completely different page. I
spent several hours at 400% magnification painting improving the details like the
speedometer gear on the output shaft ID# 665. The forward clutch drum ID# 618 had
light streak, so again at 400% mag, I added back the detail. Well enough of that, you
get the picture......no pun intended!
This is what it looked like before any editing. Notice all the shadows around every
part. Yes I painted around every part, inside and out.
After I completely re-typed the legend, all ID#'s and added it to the
diagram.....all on ONE PAGE now! I also added the A, B, C & D
references to make it easy to quickly find the text(Name of Part)
without losing focus.
The other important diagram is the OD Components, but it only
required some clean up.
So this is how my setup looks like now when I'm focused and reading for every detail!!!
If you want these documents don't download the picture above, they
won't print out nearly as nice as the PDF files below.
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8
87vette81big
Guest
The 200R4 your rebuilding for your T-bucket is going to be done right & work perfect Rick.
Your a perfectionist & attention to details do matter.
BR
Your a perfectionist & attention to details do matter.
BR
I have all my parts back from the Precision Machine shop. That’s the last trip
to PM, unless something unexpected comes up.
I’ve mentioned before that Buddy has a transmission shop as well as Precision
Machine. It would NOT have been possible to replace thrust washers with
roller thrust bearing without the unique combination of machine shop WITH
a transmission parts inventory and knowledge. Buddy had to find the right
size roller bearing to fit the dimensions of the associated parts. That would
have been impossible at any other machine shop.
I know he has a lot of New old stock; just look at the date on those wave
springs (651). He mentioned selling an input shaft for a 1960’s something
Buick trans I’ve never heard of, I bet you can’t find those new anywhere now.
CKP called for 2 wave plates 651 to be stacked one on the other to cushion
the shift, therefore the reason for buying two of them.
Step 4 was simple enough, just drill a hole 3/64” diameter in the corner of part # 646.
Below is page 1 of the instructions I gave to Precision Machine.
Step 5 involves replacing the plastic thrust washer with a roller thrust bearing.
The roller bearing is .067” thicker, so Buddy removed .033” from each
component, part #s 646 and 640.
When the trans is assembled this is how it will look with the new roller
thrust bearing between #’s 640 and 646.
Below you can see what the plastic thrust washer that the OEM used looks
like. Now it’s a roller bearing.
Turns out the roller bearing comes from the internals of a Torque Converter.
I found this information on the bearing manufactures’ websites.
While looking around on the TriComponent website, I noticed they sell
Selective Shims in .010”, .020” and .030”. This could turn out to be very
useful, when it comes time to set the end play.
Download the 2 page document in PDF below:
That’s all for page 1 of 2 in the 4th document to Precision Machine . Any steps
I didn’t cover were simple operations like replacing a bushing. Will cover
page 2 in the near future.
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This is Indycar's computer, but this is busterrm. I drove up from Wichita Falls yesterday. Rick and I are putting together sub-assemblies for his tranny, both of us suffering from cerebral dehydration, or hangover. This ole cowboy is in over his head for sure. I am sure Rick will add some comments with a certain degree of exaggeration. Hahahahahaha! I also collected some info about Dart blocks for the coming 383 build which is now going to be 400.
if your not in over your head most of the time your working on cars your unlikely to be learning much thats new or gaining skills
NO Exaggeration, Just The Facts !!!Indycars said:
I think the pictures speak for themselves.
Just a couple of car nuts having a good time !!!
Ok, this time I picked the movie.......NO Momma Mia for this guy, like the last time !!! The only
music came from the engines, we watched a recent movie about the Bonneville Salt Flats called the
"Boy of Bonneville". Narrated by Patrick Dempsey. We watched it on NetFlix streaming, but you can
also buy the DVD for $20 bucks.
Movie Trailer:
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