TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

[grumpyvette]

I wish you gentlemen were located a great deal closer.
I,d love to both help in the areas Im familiar with, and let you guys have access to tools etc. and Id like to learn in those areas I see you guys have the edge in.

 

[busterrm]

Okay Picture # 1 = What was really going through my mind and is why I took a picture of it. " Hey Doc, when I take that little blue pill is my tool suppose to turn blue like the pill?
Picture # 2 = Zoey is a telepath and she was telling me, " Would you hold me, this guy always has gas? Anyway, I like your blue hat, what flavor is it?"
Picture # 3 = I was more worried about the bench holding us both up, Rick and I were both hiding it well. But, we kinda sorta overindulged on the spirits the night before.
I don't know about Rick, but I felt like somebody had drove a cold chisel right through my forehead.

 

[Indycars]

Ok I will admit thats a pretty pretty good come back, but there is always next time!!!

 

[busterrm]

Omg, the doc didn't tell me it would turn blue when I took the lil blue pill.

Rick said, "Wow, mine is turning blue also, do we have the same dr?"

Don't Rick's arms look like the are getting awful long?

Omg! Bob flicked a booger on my tool!

 

[Indycars]

Ok , I thought I was being REALLY NICE when I gave you credit for your comeback to my first response..... But this means WAR!!!

So when you least expect it ........

 

[busterrm]

Really it was a great time we had. Ricks wife is a good cook too, we had chicken something the night I got there and I was a happy camper when we watched "Boys of Bonneville." Little Zoey is a charmer too, well as long as you give her attention. I drank some more import beer, the Porter was the best, it was stout but was smooth and creamy going down. Rick is making some "Cherry Bounce" which he described how its made, fresh cherry with something and liquor and you let it sit for 6-12 months. I am just wondering what bounces! It reminded me of a trip my brother Andrew and I took to a small town in Arkansas to his friend home, a guy named Beadreaux and his elderberry "vine", "randy" and "My Place." Rick didn't show the picture with Zoey on the garage floor when she poked her head in, the caption would probably be something like, " Mom, these two guys are nuts!"

 

[87vette81big]

 

[Indycars]

Before I get back to business, I would like to say what a great time I had while Bob
was here. He was a great help and made working on the trans alot more fun. It's
always good to have two perspectives!

Ok onto step 8 of the 4th document to Precision Machine. This was pretty simple,
since there is a factory replacement roller thrust bearing for the black plastic thrust
washer. I went back and compared Buddy's notes to make sure, then I actually pulled
the roller thrust bearings to confirm and as it turns out we used the very same
bearing again in step 10.

NOTE: Go back to page 14 to review the 4th document. or download the PDF
file and print it out for reference.






This part confused both Bob and myself.....just for awhile mind you! There are two
roller bearings, one inside of the other one. This doesn't really apply to step 8, but
it should reduce some confusion if you are actually trying to assemble a 200-4R.

 

[busterrm]

Was that the one Rick that is held in place by the race on the sun gear? Were we correct about the "Housing to Case spacer," being a snap ring for the clutches and steels for the Low/Reverse pack?

 

[Indycars]

(1) Was that the one Rick that is held in place by the
race on the sun gear?
(2) Were we correct about the "Housing to Case spacer," being a snap
ring for the clutches and steels for the Low/Reverse pack?

(1) I believe you mean the Output Shaft 665. It centers the roller
bearing 663 by the roller bearing's ID.






(2) Well kinda....sorta! When I read CKP book, it's there so the sharp
edges of the Lo Reverse Clutch Housing 646 does NOT cut into the softer
aluminum case.

 

[busterrm]

okay, I remember now, the new one was the one that the depression had to be machined for it to rest in, and the output shaft held the center thrust bearing centered. Okay, that assembly on the output shaft was confusing.

 

[Indycars]

I took a 1/2 day vacation this week on both Tuesday and Thursday(Today), so I
have lots a things in my head right now that I want to post. But first I wanted
to complete my posting about the 4th document to Precision Machine before I
move on. This post is all about the 10th Step on page 2 of the 4th document.

If you want to download the full 2 page PDF for printing, go to page 14.



Like we did in Step 8, we split the difference in material that would need to
be removed between the two adjacent parts. Buddy removed .052"(depth)
from both parts 661 & 664. The ID/OD of the cut was 2.325"/ 3.225".



Below you can see how the bearing sits down into the pocket that was
machined for it and in the background the other part that will directly
contact the other side of the bearing. The side you can see in the picture
below.



Going from the OEM metal thrust washer to the roller thrust bearing
increased the surface area by a substantial amount as you can see
below in the next 2 pictures.




Since I hate to see anybody have to work to hard, I have included the
exploded diagram again for your reference.



If you want to PRINT the exploded view ABOVE for your use, then use
the download BELOW:


NOTE: I wanted to make point here.

If you are NOT willing to keep up with fluid and filter changes, you MIGHT
be better off with the OEM thrust bearings. They will do better when there
is metal and other debris flowing in the transmission fluid. When a roller
bearing encounters larger particles of contaminants it can damage the
rollers and races. If it's bad enough one of the rollers will break, sending
a very hard metallic chucks thru the rest of the transmission.

A catastrophic failure could be in your near future !!!

 

[Indycars]

For the clutch pack clearance on the Direct and Forward clutches, I'm in the acceptable
range. But it's a pretty wide range at .030" to .065". This measurement has a lot of
latitude for measurement interpretation. With this many clutch plates stacked on
each other, it's easy to push down and get a great deal more clearance.

Here is tip when setting up the clutch pack clearance. Do all you measurements and
setup first , then disassemble it again and soak the friction disks. It will be less
messy and it won't effect your measurements.

The apply ring for the Direct Clutch Piston is .480" high and the apply ring for
the Forward Clutch Piston is .520" high. They can be used in either position and
I had to use the .520" apply ring in the Direct Clutch to get my .050-.055"
clearance. Also the steel plates are interchangeable between the two clutch
packs and can be used to adjust clearances since they are of a different
thickness, one being .020" thicker. Thanks again Dorian for suggesting that
I get 2 transmissions for parts, I needed the .520" apply ring for both clutch
packs.

Below you see an example of what an Apply Ring looks like. It's what pushes
on the first steel plate in the clutch pack. It just snaps in by hand.



I'm wondering what the preferred clearance is for these clutch packs ???
Should they be closer to the .030" limit ???

 

[Indycars]

For the clutch pack clearance on the Direct and
Forward clutches, I'm in the acceptable range.
But it's a pretty wide range at .030" to .065".

Well I need to correct the statement above. The Direct Clutch pack clearance is
.030" to .065" and the Forward Clutch pack clearance is .020" to .030". So I
need to remove about .020" to .030" clearance from the Forward Clutch pack.

In the CKP parts that I bought are two oversize discs that are .100" thick. That's
.022" thicker than the CKP standard steel plates. When I put both of them in I
measured about .015" clearance, but I could NOT move the friction disks by
hand. Now I have one oversize steel plate and I measure .025" and the friction
disks move easily by hand.



If you asked ten people to measure the clearance, I bet the width of that window
would be .015" wide. It's that easy to get a variety of measurements. It all depends
on how far you push the feeler into the back of the snap ring and hard hard you press
down on the plates.

 

[Indycars]

Identifying seals for the different components is a challenge, since there
are so many in an automatic transmission. Lots and lots of photos help,
but I don't think any of the 400-500 photos I've taken would help with
this one. The DVD came thru for me on this problem.

The seals for the pistons that have been in the previous posts about the
clutch packs for the Direct Clutch and Forward Clutch have a lot in
common. Besides the steel plates, are also the seals. But the problem
comes when you find there are three seals that have the same diameter.
The third seal goes on the Center Support (ID 537), but which one???

I think the photos will clear up this problem.

 

[grumpyvette]

DAMN YOUR DOING AN AMAZING JOB ON BOTH THE PHOTOGRAPHY AND POSTING TIPS ON REBUILD INFO

 

[Indycars]

Thanks Grumpy!!!

Things are really happening fast now, faster than I can post before I forget some of the details.

Man this is fun right now !!!

 

[busterrm]

hey Rick where those two seals we put in that piston for the low/reverse the right seals. I remember you had reservations about the air leak coming through! The exploded view shows them to #648 I think.

 

[Indycars]

hey Rick where those two seals we put in that piston for the
low/reverse the right seals. I remember you had reservations about the air leak
coming through! The exploded view shows them to #648 I think.

I don't remember that, but I'm always concerned. I went back and air tested
again and looks good to me.

One thing I forgot to do when you were here was install two wave springs, CKP says.....


This will accomplish two things. The first is that it will further cushion the
low/reverse clutch pack upon application of reverse reducing harsh reverse
engagements. Second, it will speed up manual 1-2 shifts by releasing the
low/reverse clutch pack faster. This reduces shift overlap caused by the band
applying and the rear planetary carrier not being released fast enough.

 

[busterrm]

hey Rick where those two seals we put in that piston for the
low/reverse the right seals. I remember you had reservations about the air leak
coming through! The exploded view shows them to #648 I think.

I don't remember that, but I'm always concerned. I went back and air tested
again and looks good to me.

One thing I forgot to do when you were here was install two wave springs, CKP says.....


This will accomplish two things. The first is that it will further cushion the
low/reverse clutch pack upon application of reverse reducing harsh reverse
engagements. Second, it will speed up manual 1-2 shifts by releasing the
low/reverse clutch pack faster. This reduces shift overlap caused by the band
applying and the rear planetary carrier not being released fast enough.

Okay, I was just thinking with your post of those large seals being the same OD but having a different inner lip, I thought maybe we got one of them wrong. But it tested good!