TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

grumpyvette said:
are you sure theres nothing like compacted grease behind the cam keeping it from going a bit further?
Click to expand...
I don't even have the rear cam plug in the block if that's what your are thinking.
NoCamPlug01.jpg

FYI, this camshaft is using the thrust plate at the front, behind the timing gear. End play for the camshaft is .004", what should it be ???
CamshaftEndPlay=004.jpg

 
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I just checked into my Assembly manual for my 80 camaro.
For the 350 SBC they specify between .004 and .012 so your fine to go.
I can take a scan of the page if you want.
 
mathd said:
I just checked into my Assembly manual for my 80 camaro.
For the 350 SBC they specify between .004 and .012 so your fine to go.
I can take a scan of the page if you want.
Click to expand...
You bet, I'm always interested in any documentation.......thanks!

What manual do you have ? ....... maybe scan the front page for everyone's info.
 
Scans are comming :!
ill update this post in a few seconds

Ok, here are the files.
I have the zipped because they are hudge(probably)
I had some problem installing the old driver under windows 7 wich apparently are not compatible..
I got to scran the book top and the 2 page of engine spec, but they are split in half with the left to the right and the right to the left(you will see)
Anyway they are readable and with some photoshop that probably can be fixed.

Here they are. this is form one of the 4 book i buy for the car a month ago from helminc
Edit:
oho, file is too big. here they are uploaded somewhere else
 
I really appreciate your scans.......but my wife says NO NOOKIE for a month if I don't come inside now. So please let me get back with you tomorrow.
 

Thanks for taking the time to scan those pages !

I cleaned them up in Photoshop, but the last page looked like it was scanned at a lower resolution. I didn't
include it, but it wasn't important to this conversation anyway.

ChevroletServiceManual01.jpg
ChevroletServiceManual02.jpg
 
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Yeah, i scanned the last one with low res, as it was not really needed for us right now.
Thanks for editing them ;)
 

I removed all the sharp edges from the camshaft retainer plate to make sure that would not effect my measurements.

DSC01480.jpg

When I looked behind the cam gear without the retainer plate installed, it looked like the cam gear thrust face was not touching the block. But the gear alignment was within .005" now. I used a Sharpie to mark where the gear could be rubbing. You can see from the marks left after I put the cam gear on the camshaft and rotated it about 60 degrees back and forth it was rubbing where it should not be.

I'm going to have to remove some material from the block where it's rubbing. I will have to think about how to get the gears lined-up when the retainer plate is installed, since this seem to be holding the cam gear out to far with a .024" misalignment.

DSC01478.jpg


 
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A FEW useful links

degreeing in a cam

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=966

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5520&p=16617&hilit=degree+tools#p16617

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1759&p=4441&hilit=degree+tools#p4441

its easily done, youll need a 8"-9" degree wheel and a dial indicator etc. but its common to do it with the heads on , these threads and sub links should help, you simply use a piston stop that screws into the spark plug hole to find TDC and a tool that drops into the lifter bore with a dial indicator or use a stand on the head with a long push-rod and a dial indicator

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-9 ... /?rtype=10

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66830/?rtype=10
pro-67491_w.jpg

pro-66830_cp.jpg

camposition.jpg

cca-4925.jpg




setting up a valve train
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181


assembling a rotating assembly
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=247

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=399

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

http://www.connectingrods.net/connectin ... tretch.php

rear seal and gasket

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1718&p=11956&hilit=rear+seal#p11956

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2725&p=7076&hilit=synthetic+gasket#p7076

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1859&p=17369&hilit=studs+gasket#p17369

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1288&p=5213&hilit=+valve+cover+gasket#p5213

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50&p=12528&hilit=studs+gasket#p12528

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1192&p=2467&hilit=+studs+pump+bearing#p2467

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4966&p=13781&hilit=oil+pump+shaft#p13781

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
 

I found this at Fastenal and thought it was interesting solution. It's a shim that starts out .032" thick, but is made from .002" layers that you can peel away. These could be used to space the crankshaft gear out to align with the camshaft gear.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/de ... 052&ucst=t

Shim- layered.jpg

Precision Brand Laminated Shim is made by using pressure and resin/adhesive to bond metal shim together which creates a rigid, "one piece" structure/formation that appears to function as a single solid arbor shim. Bonding adhesive makes for just right peeling, no tearing or ripping of the layers.

Laminated Brass Arbor Shims (Comp. 2) are made from a cold rolled, half hard CDA 260 alloy
Type 1 (fully laminated) with 0.002" laminations
Allows you more accuracy on-site

OR

they have a large selection of traditional shims with a 1 1/4" ID in many sizes.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/prod ... m&Ntt=shim

 
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thats an impressive and useful link!
! I have made shims for crank gears in the past on a mill from large washers , and brazed a bit of brass and filed it to gain the correct clearance a few times before but Ive never seen such an easy solution
 
This misalignment is strange.
Are you sure you are using the correct timming chain kit for a roller cam application?
 
when I've installed the timing chain and gears the timing chain get installed assembled with both gears so the crank gear lines up with the cam gear just by installing it.
 
northrnyankee said:
when I've installed the timing chain and gears the timing chain get installed assembled with both gears so the crank gear lines up with the cam gear just by installing it.
Click to expand...
So are you saying....only push the crank gear on far enough until it lines-up, instead of pushing all the way until it stops against the crank shoulder ???

What happens when you put the harmonic balancer on the crank, doesn't it bottom against the crank gear. Possibly pushing the crank gear further on the crank snout.

 
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The crank gear just floats on the crank and stay aligned by the chain. The balancer doesn't touch the gear and you'll notice the balancer has separate key but if you want to check just to make sure you just measure the inside of the harmonic balancer and then see how car it's going to travel on the crank..that's easer then installing it
 
this is frequently a non-issue as most timing sets tend to align , but most people would never notice if they did or did not as few people bother to check, most crank gears are a press fit on the crank snout and require a gear puller to pop them loose for removal and replacement.really its not a huge issue,and easily corrected, from a practical stand point you can move the cam timing gear closer to the block or the crank gear a bit further out or a bit of both, but theres been millions of Chevy timing chains and gears installed without that correct alignment being verified and theres a designed in ability to flex the chain that will compensate for minor miss alignment, I doubt one guy in 100 bothers to verify this alignment.
which is in no way saying getting it correctly lined up is not the best course and its bound to reduce the amount of wear the chain has to endure over time

CrankGear_0222.jpg

IMG_0233x.jpg

if you don,t shim the crank gear,to remain in alignment with the cam gear, too be solidly up against the shoulder on the crankshaft,with the crank gear resting solidly against the shim, the damper being installed has a very high chance of pushing it in a bit further to bottom out against the crank snout shoulder. In the pas I found most gears will be reasonably close in alignment and those that were not were usually like the diagram, where the crank gear tends to seat a bit further in, now Ive either brazed a bit of brass to the rear of the crank gear and file fit it or used custom sanded shim washers
gearalign.jpg

keep in mind that the upper cam gear needs to have a cam button OR retainer plate and 5-8 thousands clearance with the cam timing cover to the cam button is suggested
0106em_bbshootout_14_z.jpg

pro-141-215.jpg
 
If the crank gear can walk in then what prevents it from walking out? With a double chain I don't think the chain will deflect enough to allow the crank gear to move.
 
grumpy, I don't want you to think I'm arguing with you. I going to be freshening up my engine this winter and I've never done anything with positioning the crank gear so I'm wondering if I'm missing something..
 
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