Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
You made me a believer.
My SMCO magnets are already ordered.
Quality engine parts don't come in plain white boxes!
- Thread starter Loves302Chevy
- Start date
My SMCO magnets are already ordered.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I do have some pics of the debris that was in the break-in oil at the bottom of the drain pan:
These shiny specks do not easily show to the naked eye, but they light up under the camera flash.
It is difficult to show because you also get reflections from the lights off the oil at the same time. I secured the drain
pan in my vise and left it to drain onto the paper towel for 24 hours. About a dozen specks and no sharp magnetic debris
makes me happy.
The black stuff at the bottom of the drain pan is like black baby powder mixed with oil. If I dip my fingers in it, it is just
like moly cam lube. If I rub it between my fingers, it does not feel abrasive. But abrasive to my fingers might be entirely
different to the engine. Is this the Parkerizing from the camshaft wearing off as the cam & lifters wear in? With only 2.5 hours
of running, the camshaft hardly got a chance to break in.
I need to know what this is and if this is normal because I have to go through breaking in another camshaft.
If so, then the oil should clear up once the cam is fully broken in - correct? That is assuming no other issues.
These shiny specks do not easily show to the naked eye, but they light up under the camera flash.It is difficult to show because you also get reflections from the lights off the oil at the same time. I secured the drain
pan in my vise and left it to drain onto the paper towel for 24 hours. About a dozen specks and no sharp magnetic debris
makes me happy.
The black stuff at the bottom of the drain pan is like black baby powder mixed with oil. If I dip my fingers in it, it is just
like moly cam lube. If I rub it between my fingers, it does not feel abrasive. But abrasive to my fingers might be entirely
different to the engine. Is this the Parkerizing from the camshaft wearing off as the cam & lifters wear in? With only 2.5 hours
of running, the camshaft hardly got a chance to break in.
I need to know what this is and if this is normal because I have to go through breaking in another camshaft.If so, then the oil should clear up once the cam is fully broken in - correct? That is assuming no other issues.
8
87vette81big
Guest
Its a little bit of the parkesized coating.I do have some pics of the debris that was in the break-in oil at the bottom of the drain pan:
View attachment 6679 View attachment 6670 View attachment 6671 View attachment 6672 View attachment 6673 View attachment 6674 View attachment 6676 View attachment 6677 View attachment 6678 These shiny specks do not easily show to the naked eye, but they light up under the camera flash.
It is difficult to show because you also get reflections from the lights off the oil at the same time. I secured the drain
pan in my vise and left it to drain onto the paper towel for 24 hours. About a dozen specks and no sharp magnetic debris
makes me happy.
The black stuff at the bottom of the drain pan is like black baby powder mixed with oil. If I dip my fingers in it, it is just
like moly cam lube. If I rub it between my fingers, it does not feel abrasive. But abrasive to my fingers might be entirely
different to the engine. Is this the Parkerizing from the camshaft wearing off as the cam & lifters wear in? With only 2.5 hours
of running, the camshaft hardly got a chance to break in.
View attachment 6681 I need to know what this is and if this is normal because I have to go through breaking in another camshaft.
If so, then the oil should clear up once the cam is fully broken in - correct? That is assuming no other issues.
Some moly from the piston ring set worn.off during break in of the piston rings initial. Bits of everything that slides or rolls during engine operation.
8
87vette81big
Guest
Not all oils are created equal.
That oil guy I don't believe.
I will agree that Marvel Mystery Oil is Good Stuff.
Singer Sewing machine oil in MMO.
That oil guy I don't believe.
I will agree that Marvel Mystery Oil is Good Stuff.
Singer Sewing machine oil in MMO.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
WHEW! Glad to hear that.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
This week, it's going to be in the teens at night again. So I drained the water out of the block so
there was no chance of it freezing and cracking the block before I get this thing running again.
Because I wanted to rotate the crank while running the oil pump to flush the passages and bearings
with diesel fuel, I added a drill stop to my preluber so that there would no downward pressure on
the oil pump gear, grinding into the oil pump cover. I put a dab of assembly lube between the stop
and the top of the distributor.
I poured a little less than 2 gallons of light green diesel fuel into the crankcase.
At this point, there is no camshaft or lifters in the block. And I installed a cheap NAPA oil filter on the block.
It's the same ones I use on my parts washer - the cleaning solution stays clean for years.
I hung a rag over the timing cover area because I figured that there would be a little bit of splash there. I slowly
started the drill motor and increased the speed and saw almost 40 psi on the oil gauge. I expected minimal pressure
because of the huge leaks from no lifters or camshaft.
Then I noticed the not-so-small puddle of diesel fuel forming on the garage floor at the front of the
engine. I raised the the front of the engine with my floor jack trying to help the diesel to flow back into the pan.
NOPE. I installed the old camshaft and tried it again. BETTER, but diesel still spilling onto the floor. The diesel is
leaking out between the cam and front cam bearing. I made a curved "funnel" to direct the diesel to the oil pan at
the front main bearing and held it in place with a bungee cord. NOW WE"RE GETTING SOMEWHERE. Now
there was the matter of that small hole in the cam gear face to plug. I sanded a pushpin down to fit the hole (.040").
Unplugged, it probably would have shot the diesel 40 feet.
So now I'm finally ready to run the oil pump and flush the passages and bearings. I ran the oil pump and while I'm
watching for spillage, I noticed something very interesting. I saw the diesel leaking out from around the front main
bearing, just like the cam, as expected. What surprised me was the 2 streams of diesel shooting out from the parting
lines of the front main bearing, both squirting directly at the crank gear.
If the same thing happens with the engine oil, then there is no need for any extra
oiling holes for the timing set. I might get yelled at for making that statement.
there was no chance of it freezing and cracking the block before I get this thing running again.
Because I wanted to rotate the crank while running the oil pump to flush the passages and bearings
with diesel fuel, I added a drill stop to my preluber so that there would no downward pressure on
the oil pump gear, grinding into the oil pump cover. I put a dab of assembly lube between the stop
and the top of the distributor.
I poured a little less than 2 gallons of light green diesel fuel into the crankcase.At this point, there is no camshaft or lifters in the block. And I installed a cheap NAPA oil filter on the block.
It's the same ones I use on my parts washer - the cleaning solution stays clean for years.
I hung a rag over the timing cover area because I figured that there would be a little bit of splash there. I slowly
started the drill motor and increased the speed and saw almost 40 psi on the oil gauge. I expected minimal pressure
because of the huge leaks from no lifters or camshaft.
Then I noticed the not-so-small puddle of diesel fuel forming on the garage floor at the front of theengine. I raised the the front of the engine with my floor jack trying to help the diesel to flow back into the pan.
NOPE. I installed the old camshaft and tried it again. BETTER, but diesel still spilling onto the floor. The diesel is
leaking out between the cam and front cam bearing. I made a curved "funnel" to direct the diesel to the oil pan at
the front main bearing and held it in place with a bungee cord. NOW WE"RE GETTING SOMEWHERE. Now
there was the matter of that small hole in the cam gear face to plug. I sanded a pushpin down to fit the hole (.040").
Unplugged, it probably would have shot the diesel 40 feet.
So now I'm finally ready to run the oil pump and flush the passages and bearings. I ran the oil pump and while I'm
watching for spillage, I noticed something very interesting. I saw the diesel leaking out from around the front main
bearing, just like the cam, as expected. What surprised me was the 2 streams of diesel shooting out from the parting
lines of the front main bearing, both squirting directly at the crank gear.
If the same thing happens with the engine oil, then there is no need for any extraoiling holes for the timing set. I might get yelled at for making that statement.
8
87vette81big
Guest
I think all is Ok and Well Loves 302.
I found a nice article on engine bearings today. I don't recall reading here on Grumpys site.
Its written by an old timer like Grumpy a few years back.
I will try and post before I leave for work in the morning on a New Separate thread of my own.
I found a nice article on engine bearings today. I don't recall reading here on Grumpys site.
Its written by an old timer like Grumpy a few years back.
I will try and post before I leave for work in the morning on a New Separate thread of my own.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
While the oil pump was running, I rotated the crankshaft about 5 or 6 revolutions by bumping the
starter motor about every 5 seconds to move the crank about 10 degrees with each bump. After I was
done, I drained the diesel from the oil pan. Its color was now a grayish green. I strained the diesel
through a super fine paint strainer and only found a few small black paint chips, probably from around
the oil drain plug.
So with that, I'm pretty confident that the magnets and oil filter caught 99% of the debris.
I will be removing the oil pan because I want to try fitting that stainless steel windage screen. And
while I'm in there, I will inspect the oil pump and rear main bearing. I don't think there is any need
to go any further.
starter motor about every 5 seconds to move the crank about 10 degrees with each bump. After I was
done, I drained the diesel from the oil pan. Its color was now a grayish green. I strained the diesel
through a super fine paint strainer and only found a few small black paint chips, probably from around
the oil drain plug.
So with that, I'm pretty confident that the magnets and oil filter caught 99% of the debris.
I will be removing the oil pan because I want to try fitting that stainless steel windage screen. And
while I'm in there, I will inspect the oil pump and rear main bearing. I don't think there is any need
to go any further.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I can't wait to read it. Send the link.
I called Ron Iskenderian today. I'm waiting for a call back.
I called Ron Iskenderian today. I'm waiting for a call back.
yes it sounds like the filter and magnets did the job that both were intended to do and prevented the vast majority of the potential metallic crap debris from reaching the bearings.
BTW that idea of the preluber depth limiting collar you added ON A COMMERCIAL OIL PUMP PRIMER
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-901010/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62205/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-27060/overview/
seems like a good one
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Climax-1...RV-_-OD_NavPLP_rr-_-203024906-_-203024956-_-N
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Climax-1...RV-_-OD_NavPLP_rr-_-203024906-_-203025022-_-N
I can see a few oil pump primers, made from old distributor bodies, that might not have the necessary length to allow its use.
BTW that idea of the preluber depth limiting collar you added ON A COMMERCIAL OIL PUMP PRIMER
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-901010/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62205/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-27060/overview/
seems like a good one
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Climax-1...RV-_-OD_NavPLP_rr-_-203024906-_-203024956-_-N
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Climax-1...RV-_-OD_NavPLP_rr-_-203024906-_-203025022-_-N
I can see a few oil pump primers, made from old distributor bodies, that might not have the necessary length to allow its use.
Last edited:
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Well, I gave ISKY their chance. I have been calling since Monday, trying to talk to Ron, waiting for a call back -
NOTHING. I called tonight and waited on the line for 5 minutes - they forgot I was there. I hung up and called
again and the same thing. I'm done with them. They might make a good cam but I will never know, because
customer service is as important to me as the quality of the parts. The ISKY cam I was looking at was their
264 Mega: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-201264
Yes, I know I can purchase it from different sources, but I wanted to talk to Ron about spring pressures, break-in,
warranty, etc.
My previous cam http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23791 was this Crane that
I was running with all 1.6 rockers (1.6/1.52 for this latest 2.5 hour FAILURE), which was probably a little too big
because it was a little soggy on the bottom end, but I loved the top end.
BTW, is Howard's any good? I'm only asking because they have a rather large selection of profiles.
So I found this Crower: http://www.crower.com/camshafts/chevy-262-400-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-12302.html
I like the numbers on this one better than the ISKY. With the porting I did to my heads, especially on the exhaust side,
I don't need any more than a .500 valve lift and I should be running closer to a single pattern camshaft. But my exhaust
is shorty SLP 1 5/8" headers Y'ed to single 3" to transverse muffler with (2) 2.5" outlets.
This Crower only has a 4 degree split duration (Crane was 12), and using all 1.6 rockers will give a valve lifts of .486/.488.
If I set the springs to 1.800, I will get 105# on the seat and 300# valve open with way more than enough retainer-to-seal
clearance. These pressures fall right between their recommended STREET and HI-REV spring pressures.
Unfortunately, their matching lifters look EXACTLY like the ones that just caused me this mess: http://www.
summitracing.com/parts/cro-66000-16/overview/make/chevrolet
This is why I want to talk directly with the manufacturer.
87vette - did you find that article about the bearings?
NOTHING. I called tonight and waited on the line for 5 minutes - they forgot I was there. I hung up and called
again and the same thing. I'm done with them. They might make a good cam but I will never know, because
customer service is as important to me as the quality of the parts. The ISKY cam I was looking at was their
264 Mega: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-201264
Yes, I know I can purchase it from different sources, but I wanted to talk to Ron about spring pressures, break-in,
warranty, etc.
My previous cam http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23791 was this Crane that
I was running with all 1.6 rockers (1.6/1.52 for this latest 2.5 hour FAILURE), which was probably a little too big
because it was a little soggy on the bottom end, but I loved the top end.
BTW, is Howard's any good? I'm only asking because they have a rather large selection of profiles.
So I found this Crower: http://www.crower.com/camshafts/chevy-262-400-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-12302.html
I like the numbers on this one better than the ISKY. With the porting I did to my heads, especially on the exhaust side,
I don't need any more than a .500 valve lift and I should be running closer to a single pattern camshaft. But my exhaust
is shorty SLP 1 5/8" headers Y'ed to single 3" to transverse muffler with (2) 2.5" outlets.
This Crower only has a 4 degree split duration (Crane was 12), and using all 1.6 rockers will give a valve lifts of .486/.488.
If I set the springs to 1.800, I will get 105# on the seat and 300# valve open with way more than enough retainer-to-seal
clearance. These pressures fall right between their recommended STREET and HI-REV spring pressures.
Unfortunately, their matching lifters look EXACTLY like the ones that just caused me this mess: http://www.
summitracing.com/parts/cro-66000-16/overview/make/chevrolet
This is why I want to talk directly with the manufacturer.
87vette - did you find that article about the bearings?
8
87vette81big
Guest
Dammit Loves 302, Listen to me.
!
CALL 4:45 PM, 4:55 PM & 5PM PACIFIC CALIFORNIA TIME.
RON IS A BUSY GUY.
WHEN YOU CALL ASK FOR RON ISKENDERIEN ONLY.
YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK TO THAT WOMAN SECRETARY ANY LONGER THAN YOU HAVE TO.
IF YOU GET TRANSFERRED TO RON'S VOICEMAIL LEAVE A MESSAGE.
BE POLITE AND COURTEOUS.
HE WILL CALL YOU BACK.
IT MAY BE 7-9-10 PM CALIFORNIA TIME WHEN HE DOES.
RON IS A NIGHT OWL.
HE STAYS UP AND WORKS ALL NIGHT.
HE PERSONAL OVERSAW BUILT MY CAMSHAFTS FOR MY 1970-1/2 TA 455 ENGINE AND MY 1965 OLDS 425 ENGINE.
RON IS HIGH STRUNG LIKE GRUMPY AND ME.
DON'T PISS HIM OFF.
TELL HIM YOU HATE BAMBAM OBAMA.
HE WILL LIKE YOU.
Brian R.
!
CALL 4:45 PM, 4:55 PM & 5PM PACIFIC CALIFORNIA TIME.
RON IS A BUSY GUY.
WHEN YOU CALL ASK FOR RON ISKENDERIEN ONLY.
YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK TO THAT WOMAN SECRETARY ANY LONGER THAN YOU HAVE TO.
IF YOU GET TRANSFERRED TO RON'S VOICEMAIL LEAVE A MESSAGE.
BE POLITE AND COURTEOUS.
HE WILL CALL YOU BACK.
IT MAY BE 7-9-10 PM CALIFORNIA TIME WHEN HE DOES.
RON IS A NIGHT OWL.
HE STAYS UP AND WORKS ALL NIGHT.
HE PERSONAL OVERSAW BUILT MY CAMSHAFTS FOR MY 1970-1/2 TA 455 ENGINE AND MY 1965 OLDS 425 ENGINE.
RON IS HIGH STRUNG LIKE GRUMPY AND ME.
DON'T PISS HIM OFF.
TELL HIM YOU HATE BAMBAM OBAMA.
HE WILL LIKE YOU.
Brian R.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
For you, I'll give him another chance. The air-head secretary said he comes in at 3 pm. I'll call again
and ask for his voice mail.
Would you look at that Crower cam? I have run their cams before and have no complaints.
I think it might be a slightly better fit.
Do you think Ron will vote for Trump? I am.
I dropped the oil pan and inspected the oil pump. It still looks new with no scratches inside.
and ask for his voice mail.
Would you look at that Crower cam? I have run their cams before and have no complaints.
I think it might be a slightly better fit.
Do you think Ron will vote for Trump? I am.
I dropped the oil pan and inspected the oil pump. It still looks new with no scratches inside.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I found minimal debris inside the oil pan. And on Engine Power, I saw them do this mod to a SBC oil pump
for smoother flow. I thought it was a good idea, so I did it too.
for smoother flow. I thought it was a good idea, so I did it too.
8
87vette81big
Guest
I will look on the Computer. I can't see the Crower cam profiles from my phone.
Just too small print.
You have China built lifter issues .
You calling Ron Today ?
Or banging your head against the wall today ?
He won't Vote for that old battle ax Hillary I assure You.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I called Ron, can't get past secretary, can't leave a voice mail, so YEAH, I'm banging my head against the wall today.
She just keeps saying, "I'll give him the message." I mentioned your name this time. Let's see if that helps.
He comes in at 12:30 today, so there is a small chance I can talk to him.
She just keeps saying, "I'll give him the message." I mentioned your name this time. Let's see if that helps.
He comes in at 12:30 today, so there is a small chance I can talk to him.
8
87vette81big
Guest
I can teach talk to Ron every single time.
That secretary doesn't like you or something Loves 302. ! ?
8
87vette81big
Guest
Isky Cams and Talking to Ron are worth it.
I Will say for you.
Ficken Mother Fick.
I Will say for you.
Ficken Mother Fick.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
She wouldn't be the first not to like me, but I didn't give her any reason not to.
But I'm also high strung like you and Grumpy.
But I'm also high strung like you and Grumpy.
8
87vette81big
Guest
Ok. I copy & pasted the bearing article I found on my Bearing thread. don't know why it didnt work for you and Grumpy.
No matter. Its there to read now. All. Different from your articles and Grumpy's found.
8
87vette81big
Guest
Have you flow tested your heads static on a flow bench ?
Whats your average area under the curve .050" - .500" Intake and exhaust ?
Can compute Exhaust to Intake Ratio then.
Sometimes split patterns cams help if E/I ratio is poor.
Good Ideal is .75 to .80 :1.
Depends who you talk to.
All have their own opinions.
Comes down to real world racing and street driving testing.
ISKY You wont go wrong.
2 other guys here besides myself Are Isky Camshaft fans.
The Ultimate test today is to build your car if its fast enough to WIN, find a Hellcat and Street Race It.
Corvette world can not do it.
They tried.
Whats your average area under the curve .050" - .500" Intake and exhaust ?
Can compute Exhaust to Intake Ratio then.
Sometimes split patterns cams help if E/I ratio is poor.
Good Ideal is .75 to .80 :1.
Depends who you talk to.
All have their own opinions.
Comes down to real world racing and street driving testing.
ISKY You wont go wrong.
2 other guys here besides myself Are Isky Camshaft fans.
The Ultimate test today is to build your car if its fast enough to WIN, find a Hellcat and Street Race It.
Corvette world can not do it.
They tried.