Quality engine parts don't come in plain white boxes!

Can I use new lifters on a just broken in camshaft - only 2.5 hours run time on engine test stand?

  • It will never work. Guaranteed failure.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You might get lucky.

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • In your case, no problem, go for it. As long you do a proper break-in with the correct moly paste.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .
I agree with Grumpy a Cam Bearing Installation Kit is Nice.
A must have tool for me.
Mine is A Lisle brand like Grumpy has pictured.
I don't like reusing cam bearings after install.
$20 For another set is Cheap Insurance.
A single Cam bearing failure is Bad.
I have been there.
Another story for another day.
 
I worked at an auto machine shop for a summer and the guy who ran it also raced SK Modifieds.
He went out on the track one day with a totally illegal motor with a roller camshaft. His father radioed
him that there was smoke coming out of the back of the car and to come in. George was a hard-headed
Italian and turned the radio off and threw it in the back of the car. A few laps later, the engine spit the
pistons and Carrillo rods out the bottom end and all over the track.
A cam bearing ended up walking and cutting off the oil supply to the mains and therefore rods.
When he checked those Carrillo rods, they ALL were fine and got reused.

BTW, I have a set of 1988 SBC 5.7" large journal Carrillo rods with the WCM7 bolts that were used for
1 summer in a 350 on the street in a 68 Camaro. I really don't think I'm ever going to get to use these,
so if anyone is interested, let me know.
 
I finished setting the windage tray to rod bolt clearances. It took a while modifying the windage tray
for the pass side dipstick and adding a washer to the hole that the dipstick would normally pass through
for a driver's side dipstick, so that it mounts using 6 main studs instead of 5. I added a curved lower dipstick
tube so that the upper tube just slides into the lower, passing through the windage tray and directed to the sump.
This way the spinning crankshaft does not send oil up the tube.
And I re-clocked the front cam bearing to 10 & 2, without removing the rear cam plug.
Now I think I'm finally ready to put the pan back on and install the new ISKY cam & lifters.
.125 rod bolts to WT clearance.jpg dipstick through WT (1).jpg pickup is tacked.jpg OP pickup to pan clearance without gasket.jpg 10 & 2 o\'clock (2).jpg 10 & 2 o\'clock (3).jpg nut behind cam bearing 2 (2).jpg
 
I like your methodical and logical approach to the final product. Your measurements
are excellent and thanks for the pics! They sure help!
 
Thanks Rick, I appreciate the compliment. I checked your engine project a while back. Coming from you,
with what you did with your engine, that really means a lot. Mike.

The oil pan is on. Degreeing the camshaft is next.
 
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectly-and-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ifter-for-checking-cam-timing.3745/#post-9950

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/degreeing-in-a-cam-correctly.3097/#post-8240

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-degree-equipment-tools.1759/#post-4440

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-12997



cambreakin.jpg

62191_ATA.jpg

scan10001B.gif

SUM-G1056_xl.jpg

cambutclear.jpg

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-pick-timing-gear-set.4548/#post-43700

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-chains.2209/#post-32459

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-chains-stretch.5734/#post-17492

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-spacer-buttons.1793/#post-4553

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ear-articles-you-need-to-read.282/#post-57371


SPRAYING ALL VALVE TRAIN COMPONENTS DURING ASSEMBLY WITH MOLY REDUCES FRICTION
molysp3.JPG

molysp2.JPG

molysp1.JPG

pre-spraying all bearing and valve train components with a moly based spray, helps embed micro moly lubricants in the metallic surface micro fissures , a good paste lube like cranes assembly lube over the spray surface helps insure a good lubricant surface coating, that is far stronger than just the ZINC and PHOSPHATES in oil
crn-99004.jpg
 
Here are my degreeing results: (ISKY Mega 264 SBC)
at .050" INTAKE lobe lift, cam card calls for
01 ATDC open, I got 1/2 degree
35 ABDC closed, I got 34 degrees

at .050" EXHAUST lobe lift, cam card calls for
35 BBDC open, I got 35 degrees
01 BTDC closed, I got 02 degrees

And the point of maximum lift on the exhaust lobe happened at 109 degrees, instead of 108.
This is a single pattern cam with symmetrical lobes and no advance ground in.

So if I reason this out correctly, the numbers I read on the degree wheel would match closest
with 1 more degree of crank rotation - if the camshaft were locked in place. Then my numbers
would be 1.5, 35, 36, 1.0.
Or, to look at it from the camshaft side, if the crank were rotated that 1 degree, the cam would
have to be corrected 1/2 degree CCW (retarded) to remain in the same position. If I am correct,
then my camshaft is 1/2 degree ADVANCED.

My timing set has 3 keyway positions... +4, 0, -4. The timing set is hardly used, but it already has
its wear-in stretch. I already have a 2 degree offset bushing in the cam gear set retarded.
So I think this is as close as I'm going to get.
This was not my first time doing this, but it's still easy to get confused.
 
Good to go.
Its hard to be dead on unless you have A Jesel Belt drive cam setup.
1/2 degree advanced A-Ok.
 
just the fact that you bothered to accurately verify the cam index puts your skill level at least 90% higher than most of the guys I deal with ..CONGRATS!
 
I was only half correct with my analysis of the readings. I re-checked using the lobe centerlines.
By the cam card, both I & E centers are at 108 degrees. On the INTAKE lobe, I measured max lift
at 108.5 degrees (occurring 1/2 degree LATE), and on the EXHAUST lobe I measured max lift
at 109 degrees (occurring 1 degree EARLY). See attached degree wheel.
So with these results, there is nothing to correct and is as close as I can get.
degree wheel large ISKY measured.jpg
Oh sh*t, I just recalculated using the .050" numbers and got the exact opposite - Intake EARLY
and Exhaust LATE (violet line). With either method, it's off by nearly the same amount in opposite
directions. Since you can only correct by moving BOTH lobes in the SAME direction, I'm still good.
 
Last edited:
DON,T WORRY AND OVER THINK IT!
your close enough, a 1 degree difference moves the whole torque curve , about 50 rpm, such a small change youll be very unlikely to have a clue either way
 
I'll spare everyone everything that broke my stones. Here's where I'm at now:
New ISKY camshaft degreed and installed with lobes coated and massaged with Rev-Lube - Check.
Timing cover - check. Camshaft end play - check. Harmonic balancer - check.
Lifters coated and massaged with Rev-Lube and installed (all through the distributor hole in
the intake) - Check. SmCo magnets installed in heads near oil drainback holes - check.

Still to do: double-check pushrod length (this is a completely different cam & lifters and the marks on
the valve stems from the previous Crane cam say I'm a little long), flush out and repaint the line on the
pushrods and install, wash and moly lube and install rocker arms, check piston to valve clearance from
25 deg BTDC to 25 deg ATDC, add break-in oil, install oil filter, prelube with drill motor, install distributor
(use gasket only for better gear mesh), and install side cut-out valve covers so I can see if the pushrods are
rotating when first fired (and if the rockers are getting the proper amount of oil this time).

I'm hoping to fire it Wednesday, but the thrill is gone, and I really don't give a crap anymore.
Doing this no longer brings me pleasure, just nothing but aggravation. I'm sick of doing my part
right, and still not getting any payoff (bad parts, more time, more money, etc).
And I haven't even gotten to the car yet! I am 100% convinced that the universe, GOD, aliens, the
government, Obama, terrorists, or whatever will not let me have this!

The straw that broke this camel's back today was the SmCo magnets I planned to put in the heads.
I ordered 1" discs, 1/4" thick. They had sharp edges, so like Rick, I just had to deburr them. They
come in a stack, separated by nylon spacers. Since it would be hard to hold on to just one, leaving them
stacked was more like holding on to a piece of round stock. So I bevel the corners of the 2 ends on my
belt sander and then change the order of the stack around for 2 new ends, and deburr those. And repeat.
But the magnets got a little too close to the metal of the sander and the whole stack was pulled out of my
hands. They shot into the belt and were carried down to the casting, wedging 1 in between and shattering it.
SHIT. OK, I still have 3. So I finish the other 3. Then I decide to clean them with the wire wheel. Any
guesses what happened? Again the pulling force from being attracted to the steel wire wheel pulled them
out of my hands and slammed them into the concrete floor. No damage though. So I pick them up and I
have 2 in my left hand and 1 in my right. I'm trying to re-stack them and as they get near each other, the
1 in my right hand gets pulled free and slams into the other 2 in my left hand, shattering 2 more. So I'm
cleaning off the pieces and figure I can throw a piece inside of my oil filters when I do oil changes. I'm
sticking them to my round lolly column. 1 larger piece is half a disc. I stick it to the column (across the arc -
like a seesaw) and about 2 seconds later I hear a snap and it's now 2 pieces. Luckily I had (8) 3/8" x 1/8"
SmCo discs and I used 2 in each corner of the heads and they fit better than those 1" discs would have.
And I have (8) 1/2" x 1/4" SmCo discs to go between the pairs of pushrods that I will not even try to deburr.

I'm not comfortable with dropping a piece of magnet INSIDE of the oil filter, because there is a very small possibility
of it making it's way into the engine. I would rather stick it to the side of 1 of the bolts mounting the oil filter adapter,
which would be at the INLET of the oil filter and therefore could never make it into the engine. Opinions please.
 
it looks like you started out just fine then got off track
(1) Why would you even contemplate grinding magnets?
(2) you simply take them out of the pack and install them,
where needed, at no point in any discussion or thread posted,
was there any mention of modifying magnets in any way,
other than perhaps epoxying them in place in a few cases like on,
aluminum oil pans and cylinder heads.
placing the magnets on the outside surface of the oil pan and oil filter will work just fine.
you did fine if you placed the magnets in the lifter gallery and in the cylinder heads oil drains
 
Last edited:
Rick is Krazy Also in his own manners .

I haven't used magnets like Grumpy but think its a Good Idea.

You have the Best Camshaft and Lifters $ money can buy for your application .
Isky 264 Mega.

I would love to Punch Bam in the Rib Cage.
Collapse a Lung.
Give him something to remember always.
 
Don't get discouraged, things go wrong with every job. Dealing with the setbacks and continuing forward is what separates those who finish and those with garage art.
 
Dealing with the setbacks and continuing forward is what separates those who finish and those with garage art.
Yeah, but at every step? This is getting too old. I never learned when it's time to throw in the towel.
It would be one thing if I didn't have a clue what I was doing, and in over my head, but that is not the case.
We will see what happens on Wednesday.
Thanks, Mike.
 
Last edited:
I'll spare everyone everything that broke my stones. Here's where I'm at now:
New ISKY camshaft degreed and installed with lobes coated and massaged with Rev-Lube - Check.
Timing cover - check. Camshaft end play - check. Harmonic balancer - check.
Lifters coated and massaged with Rev-Lube and installed (all through the distributor hole in
the intake) - Check. SmCo magnets installed in heads near oil drainback holes - check.

Still to do: double-check pushrod length (this is a completely different cam & lifters and the marks on
the valve stems from the previous Crane cam say I'm a little long), flush out and repaint the line on the
pushrods and install, wash and moly lube and install rocker arms, check piston to valve clearance from
25 deg BTDC to 25 deg ATDC, add break-in oil, install oil filter, prelube with drill motor, install distributor
(use gasket only for better gear mesh), and install side cut-out valve covers so I can see if the pushrods are
rotating when first fired (and if the rockers are getting the proper amount of oil this time).

I'm hoping to fire it Wednesday, but the thrill is gone, and I really don't give a crap anymore.
Doing this no longer brings me pleasure, just nothing but aggravation. I'm sick of doing my part
right, and still not getting any payoff (bad parts, more time, more money, etc).
And I haven't even gotten to the car yet! I am 100% convinced that the universe, GOD, aliens, the
government, Obama, terrorists, or whatever will not let me have this!

The straw that broke this camel's back today was the SmCo magnets I planned to put in the heads.
I ordered 1" discs, 1/4" thick. They had sharp edges, so like Rick, I just had to deburr them. They
come in a stack, separated by nylon spacers. Since it would be hard to hold on to just one, leaving them
stacked was more like holding on to a piece of round stock. So I bevel the corners of the 2 ends on my
belt sander and then change the order of the stack around for 2 new ends, and deburr those. And repeat.
But the magnets got a little too close to the metal of the sander and the whole stack was pulled out of my
hands. They shot into the belt and were carried down to the casting, wedging 1 in between and shattering it.
SHIT. OK, I still have 3. So I finish the other 3. Then I decide to clean them with the wire wheel. Any
guesses what happened? Again the pulling force from being attracted to the steel wire wheel pulled them
out of my hands and slammed them into the concrete floor. No damage though. So I pick them up and I
have 2 in my left hand and 1 in my right. I'm trying to re-stack them and as they get near each other, the
1 in my right hand gets pulled free and slams into the other 2 in my left hand, shattering 2 more. So I'm
cleaning off the pieces and figure I can throw a piece inside of my oil filters when I do oil changes. I'm
sticking them to my round lolly column. 1 larger piece is half a disc. I stick it to the column (across the arc -
like a seesaw) and about 2 seconds later I hear a snap and it's now 2 pieces. Luckily I had (8) 3/8" x 1/8"
SmCo discs and I used 2 in each corner of the heads and they fit better than those 1" discs would have.
And I have (8) 1/2" x 1/4" SmCo discs to go between the pairs of pushrods that I will not even try to deburr.

I'm not comfortable with dropping a piece of magnet INSIDE of the oil filter, because there is a very small possibility
of it making it's way into the engine. I would rather stick it to the side of 1 of the bolts mounting the oil filter adapter,
which would be at the INLET of the oil filter and therefore could never make it into the engine. Opinions please.

Is it bad that this story sounds like it would have been really funny to be nearby (with a face shield) watching.... I feel your pain... when luck just keeps taking a dump on you.... But, hopefully you'll tell the story about the magnet deburring debacle with a chuckle one day... :)
 
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