TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

I think the block looks great, that is going to be a great looking engine when its assembled. From all the reading I have done on your thread its going to be a running sucker too. Its a 400 right?
 
You know what it looks like is they took off too much and tried to add it back with some weld metal. I do agree though it looks like crap. I would take it back to them. See what they will do about it? If they don't try to fix it or replace the crank I would not take them anymore work and make sure all of my hotrod buddies know the name of the place that screwed you.
 
grumpyvette said:
as far as cosmetics, on the cranks machining, your correct that LOOKS too be rather poorly done work with little care to smoothing and potential stress risers, I doubt it will cause you any problem, its not in an area of any stress. I can,t really tell everything from the limited pictures but thats not how most of the cranks Ive had balanced and worked on looked after returning from the machine shop , but that doesn,t mean the cranks not balance,and its not necessarily going to cause you any problems. but if it was my crank Id avoid giving them any future parts or work., the better machine shops not only do good work, they tend too care how the work looks, as a finished product, and take a bit of time to polish up welds or radius sharp edges etc. not just want work they do to come in .. get paid for..and pushed out the door.
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It makes me wonder how good the balancing was done when I see work like this. The flex plat and dampener had zero balancing marks, I surely can't be this lucky.

The shop I took it to doesn't do their own balancing, they send it out. I will probably run by there today with the crank and see what he has to say.
 
busterrm said:
I think the block looks great, that is going to be a great looking engine when its assembled. From all the reading I have done on your thread its going to be a running sucker too. Its a 400 right?
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Thanks for the nice comments busterrm! Yes it's a 400 or 401 to be exact.

It does look better that average, but not what I was hoping for. My hopes exceeded my experience and skill level. :D But there is always next time.
 
busterrm said:
You know what it looks like is they took off too much and tried to add it back with some weld metal. I do agree though it looks like crap. I would take it back to them. See what they will do about it? If they don't try to fix it or replace the crank I would not take them anymore work and make sure all of my hotrod buddies know the name of the place that screwed you.
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I plan on going by there after work today and see what they say. They send their balancing work out, for what ever that's worth.
 
I took the crankshaft back today. Bert is going to talk with the person in the other shop that did the balancing, but I don't think anything is going to come of it.

My Dura-Bond DT-1T cam bearings and the AllStar installation tool came in today.

The best I can tell all cam bearings are the same size OD, even Dura-Bond's catalog seems to say they fit all 5 locations. Can anyone confirm this ???

BTW, this is a Dart SHP block.

 
Indycars said:
I took the crankshaft back today. Bert is going to talk with the person in the other shop that did the balancing, but I don't think anything is going to come of it.

My Dura-Bond DT-1T cam bearings and the AllStar installation tool came in today.

The best I can tell all cam bearings are the same size OD, even Dura-Bond's catalog seems to say they fit all 5 locations. Can anyone confirm this ???

BTW, this is a Dart SHP block.
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I wouldn't be satisified until they at least try to make it right. Cranks are an important part and also with performance engines they are not cheap. Don't settle Rick, you're building a great engine there and it as well as you deserves good work all around.
Bob
 
Indycars said:
I took the crankshaft back today. Bert is going to talk with the person in the other shop that did the balancing, but I don't think anything is going to come of it.

My Dura-Bond DT-1T cam bearings and the AllStar installation tool came in today.

The best I can tell all cam bearings are the same size OD, even Dura-Bond's catalog seems to say they fit all 5 locations. Can anyone confirm this ???

BTW, this is a Dart SHP block.
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don,t make yourself nuts,check with dart about the bearing dimensions, if you over think this it will make you crazy, simply, punch out the damaged /scared cam bearing with your new tool and a mallet, measure, and carefully inspect the bearing,measure the old bearing outside, and inside diam. then measure the current cam bearings and select a similar bearing with the similar measurements ,and with the correct oil feed hole locations, and then reinstall it with the oil feed holes located/indexed correctly. btw on some cam bearing sets, but certainly not all cam bearing sets, Ive seen, one edge is slightly beveled and one edge is not the tool pushes on the non-beveled edge and the bevel edge is inserted, the bevel aid alignment and allows easier insertion.
some cam bearing tools have twin parallel o-rings that hold the inner bearing surface on the tool with a very slight interference fit, some require you place a layer of electrical tape to protect the inner bearing surface
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1479
AAsh290s_w.jpg
 
When I measured the new cam bearings, at most there was .002" difference in OD. So I contacted Dart Tech Support and they confirmed that all bearings are the same..... ID and OD.

I have your Dart SHP block and need to install cam bearings. Are all cam bearing OD's in the block the same diameter?

I have the Dura-Bond DT-1T bearing set. It does not matter in which position I install them.... correct???


Rick,


You are correct on the bearing positions. The block is a common journal size so all the bearings have the same ID and OD.

Thank you,

Tony Hornak
Dart Machinery, LTD.
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I wouldnt wory about the damper/flexplate, they should be balance from the factory correct spect.

But my god that machine work looks like crap :/, x3 on not going there for balancing work again. let's hope they accuratly balanced it at least. looks like a 5 yr old did the job :thumbsdown
Dosent that welding relieve the hardness from the forging and heat treatment?
How did they manage to weld a casting anyway, hope it wont fall off the crank. Id poke around with a screw driver to make sure its tight and no bits if going to fall off ont he oil pan.
 
If they used the correct type of rod it shouldn't fall off. But still not a good way to balance for sure.
 
mathd said:
I wouldnt worry about the damper/flexplate, they should be balance from the factory correct spect.

But my god that machine work looks like crap :/, x3 on not going there for balancing work again. let's hope they accurately balanced it at least. looks like a 5 yr old did the job :thumbsdown
I'm thinking about having it balanced again, unless the original shop does something.


Doesn't that welding relieve the hardness from the forging and heat treatment?
Excellent question, I will call Scat today and see what they say.


How did they manage to weld a casting anyway, hope it wont fall off the crank. Id poke around with a screw driver to make sure its tight and no bits if going to fall off in the oil pan.
It's not a cast crank, it's forged.
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I was just wondering Rick? Are you going to chase out all the holes in the block that got paint in them? When I am on final assembly of a build, I always chase them as I assemble. I was just wondering because I saw some paint in a few of the holes in your pictures. I am alwasy leary when finishing up if the bolts get the correct torque spec.
 
busterrm said:
I was just wondering Rick? Are you going to chase out all the holes in the block that got paint in them? When I am on final assembly of a build, I always chase them as I assemble. I was just wondering because I saw some paint in a few of the holes in your pictures. I am alwasy leary when finishing up if the bolts get the correct torque spec.
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There shouldn't be any paint inside a threaded hole that requires a torqued fastener, but I will run a thread chaser again thru the important holes just before final assembly.
NOTE: I don't use a tap for this, I have Thread Cleaning Chasers like below.....

The threaded holes such as the motor mounts, I don't use since I have an old Corvette mount that attaches to the front of the block.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900200/

Thread Chaser.jpg
 
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As I suspected all they offered to do was pull the crank for me if it has a vibration. That's not going to work, I can't put it together hoping all is well.

I called another shop and it will be 2-3 weeks before he can get to it for balancing. But I guess I don't have a choice, but to wait. I hate this part, I need to get the engine finished so I can move on to the 200-4R transmission rebuild. That will be another project, since I've never been inside an automatic before.

I certainly don't need any reasons to sit back and drink another beer, I can do that without the any reason. :lol:
 
Indycars said:
As I suspected all they offered to do was pull the crank for me if it has a vibration. That's not going to work, I can't put it together hoping all is well.

I called another shop and it will be 2-3 weeks before he can get to it for balancing. But I guess I don't have a choice, but to wait. I hate this part, I need to get the engine finished so I can move on to the 200-4R transmission rebuild. That will be another project, since I've never been inside an automatic before.

Nice i never been inside an automatic, only manual. I know my 80 chevy manuals have the info about automatic transmission(i just dont know wich models) will look that later.

I certainly don't need any reasons to sit back and drink another beer, I can do that without the any reason. :lol:

sure :D
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this delay is unfortunate but its also a really good example of why the machine shop you select is important and why asking lots of detailed questions both before you give parts to any machine shop, and getting several references is important, its also why taking lots of before and after pictures and documenting and carefully numbering and stamping parts with unique I.d. numbers is required.
I learned long ago that most of the "CHEAPER MACHINE SHOPS" were ANYTHING BUT, CHEAP!!
you don,t save any money on RUINED OR BADLY MACHINED PARTS that will REQUIRE REPLACEMENT OR REWORKING ELSE WARE!
Ive even had shops try to give me the wrong parts back or break parts, or substitute inferior parts, then tell me they were in that condition when they got them, thats why many clear, before and after pictures, signed paperwork,and pictures and clear detailed instructions, due dates, costs listed and I.D. numbers stamped on parts are mandatory, if the shop owner won,t sign for parts and sign a few pictures and detail work, look else-ware.....just wait untill you see how far you get, at being compensated for totally worthless junk if you don,t have clear detailed pictures after some moron put aluminum heads in a caustic soda bath


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Indycars said:
mathd said:
I wouldnt worry about the damper/flexplate, they should be balance from the factory correct spect.

But my god that machine work looks like crap :/, x3 on not going there for balancing work again. let's hope they accurately balanced it at least. looks like a 5 yr old did the job :thumbsdown
I'm thinking about having it balanced again, unless the original shop does something.


Doesn't that welding relieve the hardness from the forging and heat treatment?
Excellent question, I will call Scat today and see what they say.


How did they manage to weld a casting anyway, hope it wont fall off the crank. Id poke around with a screw driver to make sure its tight and no bits if going to fall off in the oil pan.
It's not a cast crank, it's forged.
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I have reservations if the shop that agreed to do the work isn't going to make good on the crap work that they subbed out. I would stress to them that this is a quality build and cheap workmanship is unacceptable. I think replacement of the crank is not too much to ask for! I would question the quality of the balancing including rebalancing totally and that of the new crank which they should
replace with no questions asked.
 
He has all the crank bearing clearance blueprinted, i dont think he want to start from zero again.
The job looks like shit but if its balanced correctly i would use that crank and learn my lesson about going to this shop.
 
busterrm said:
I have reservations if the shop that agreed to do the work isn't going to make good on the crap work that they subbed out. I would stress to them that this is a quality build and cheap workmanship is unacceptable. I think replacement of the crank is not too much to ask for! I would question the quality of the balancing including rebalancing totally and that of the new crank which they should
replace with no questions asked.
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Although it would be great if they replaced the crank, realistically I don't see that happening. Also not sure if I want to go thru the whole process again of deburring the crank again.

I'm beginning to wonder if the car will be driveable this summer, still have the transmission project to complete.
 
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