TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

[Indycars]

He has all the crank bearing clearance blueprinted, i dont think he want to start from zero again.
The job looks like shit but if its balanced correctly i would use that crank and learn my lesson about going to this shop.

Yes...... I am a bit reluctant to start over.

I have loaded everything in the car so on my way home today I can drop off the parts at Gerald Brand Racing and have him check it for balance. I will interested in seeing his reaction and what numbers he comes up with. It will be 2-3 weeks before he can get to it thou. If its off very far I may use this to seek a refund from the first shop.

 

[mathd]

He has all the crank bearing clearance blueprinted, i dont think he want to start from zero again.
The job looks like shit but if its balanced correctly i would use that crank and learn my lesson about going to this shop.

Yes...... I am a bit reluctant to start over.

I have loaded everything in the car so on my way home today I can drop off the parts at Gerald Brand Racing and have him check it for balance. I will interested in seeing his reaction and what numbers he comes up with. It will be 2-3 weeks before he can get to it thou. If its off very far I may use this to seek a refund from the first shop.

Yep, that what i would be doing me too.

 

[busterrm]

He has all the crank bearing clearance blueprinted, i dont think he want to start from zero again.
The job looks like shit but if its balanced correctly i would use that crank and learn my lesson about going to this shop.

I do agree with that if you have all the bearing clearancing alread blueprinted, I would pray that the 2-3 week wait isn't in vane. I am just really dissapointed in machine shops of today, the machine shop I use knows if they screw up a part they had better make good on it. I am not too proud to drive to DFW area to get a quality job done.

 

[Indycars]

Every once in awhile you get lucky, Gerald Brand had another assembly to balance and it's more time
efficient to do both at the same time. So I already have my engine parts back and......

It's as I expected,
one end of the crank was 8 grams out of balance and the other end was even worse at 11 grams.
The rods needed a 2 gram adjustment.
The flex plate and balancer were out 5.5 grams and 2.7 grams

In the OEM balance hole that was there when I got the crank from SCAT, he had to weld in a plate and drill another small hole in the same counter weight. In the rear flange he drilled 4 holes.





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[grumpyvette]

IM always impressed with your photo skills, and while this might be at first glace ,be seen as a big problem, in reality its more than likely resulted in your avoiding an even bigger problem, that might have occurred if you had run the previous assembly as it was.


sure sounds like your due a refund from the previous incompetent butcher ,
but I doubt you'll ever see any cash back!
its unfortunate but theres about 40% of the machine shops Ive ever dealt with that are either clueless or incompetent butchers who could not do go work and can,t care less about it.
thats one reason I keep stressing the fact that its critical to develop a relationship with a GOOD machine shop and DO AS MUCH OF YOUR OWN WORK AS YOU CAN
if you had run the previous balance you would have had vibration and bearing wear issues


related threads, yes I know most people won,t read them, but its THEIR LOSS, theres a good deal of experience contained in the links and sub links

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=321&p=3007&hilit=finding+machine#p3007

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5053&p=14313&hilit=finding+machine#p14313

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4786&p=12990&hilit=finding+machine#p12990

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3020&p=7961&hilit=finding+machine#p7961

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4460&p=11720&hilit=finding+machine#p11720

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=3555&p=9438&hilit=finding+machine#p9438

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=800&p=1162&hilit=finding+machine#p1162

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=259&p=314&hilit=balancing#p314

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6162

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=141&p=565&hilit=balancing#p565

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=204

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1738&p=4333&hilit=stamp+number#p4333

 

[busterrm]

On a performance engine those are lousey numbers for what is supposed to be a finished balance. I would get a copy of the balance sheet and take it to the first machine shop and ask for a refund for sure. If you get one, color yourself lucky and chalk it up to learning, but I would never dawn that shops doorstep again. Hey Grumpy correct me if I am wrong but had Rick assembled that engine would it have vibration problems?

 

[Indycars]

be seen as a big problem, in reality its more than likely resulted in your avoiding an even bigger problem, that might have occurred if you had run the previous assembly as it was.

Interesting, that's kinda what I told my wife. Bad news is I found out that the first guy to do the balance was all WRONG :evil: :twisted: :evil: , but the good new is I didn't put the motor together like it was and then have to take it apart again. :ugeek:

The first few days would have been been depression and madness, while NOT being able to drive the car after 10 years !!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: Plus if I get a refund, I will have saved $10 (185-175=$10 savings). :roll:

I still have to live with the cosmetically crappy looking crankshaft, if it doesn't throw the weld out of the crankshaft from the first weld. You know how luck goes.....it won't come out going straight down, but going straight up at 6000 RPM !

 

[grumpyvette]

good welds, done buy skilled welders, seldom if ever come loose, that particular thought,would be so far down my list it would be below worrying about my wife renting me an ugly hooker for my birthday, and that (renting me a hooker) is WAY below me worrying about what IM going to do if I win the LOTTO!

 

[Indycars]

I would get a copy of the balance sheet and take it to the first machine shop and ask for a refund for sure.

I already have the documentation, there is just one exception. He didn't get the first run, because Gerald Brand didn't clear the memory on the balancer from the first balance job.But I think the rotating assembly speaks for itself, which I will have with me.

You Will Get Your Answer Tomorrow!

 

[Indycars]

good welds, done buy skilled welders, seldom if ever come loose, that particular thought,would be so far down my list it would be below worrying about my wife renting me an ugly hooker for my birthday, and that (renting me a hooker) is WAY below me worrying about what IM going to do if I win the LOTTO!

I don't know about your luck, but my wife would probably get me a hooker with HIV.

Sorry.... I'm just alittle pissed right now !

 

[busterrm]

I know its bothersome to think about a crank coming apart because of shawdy workmanship. But think like this, unless your going to race the car is the engine going to turn the rpms that will cause that type of problem. Also, I am sure from what I saw in the pictures, it looks like the old weld was removed and replaced with TIG welding. Tig welding of the quality seen in your pictures is known to be very strong. I work in a welding shop and forgings also take tig welding very well. I know thats not much of a consulation, I think you'll be okay.

 

[DorianL]

Every once in awhile you get lucky, Gerald Brand had another assembly to balance and it's more time
efficient to do both at the same time. So I already have my engine parts back and......

It's as I expected,
one end of the crank was 8 grams out of balance and the other end was even worse at 11 grams.
The rods needed a 2 gram adjustment.
The flex plate and balancer were out 5.5 grams and 2.7 grams

In the OEM balance hole that was there when I got the crank from SCAT, he had to weld in a plate and drill another small hole in the same counter weight. In the rear flange he drilled 4 holes.

MF!!!! Yer railroading me into gettin another few coffees this morning!!!! That's insane! I mean I am flabbergasted!!!!! Don't make me come down there and kick his butt! (Man I'm so keyed-up lately.)

I hope you get yer $$$ back!!!!! Insane! And considering your attention for detail, I can imagine the ugliness disturbs you - it would me as well. No one sees it, but I would know it is there.

I think another wedgie is in order...

 

[DorianL]

Back in 2002 I was too chicken to swap a V8 for my 250L6. I asked a mechanic "into American cars" to do it for me. It took him forever. The only good that came out of it was that the block was a 400 that had never been rebuilt.

Anyway, when I got it back it had several issues: the L6 radiator was still on there! (I later dug up a triple core in a wrecking yard.) I asked him to put together a dual exhaust with headers. I got small shorty headers and a highly restricted 2-inch dual exhaust with kinks in it. To make things worse... he had "exploded" a muffler. A new one was on order but in the meantime he had "silicone-gunned" together the muff! I have a pic somewhere - I'll post if I find it.

Finally - as I drove home, there was a nast vibration that increased with RPM. I called the guy up: "Oh, you must understand, it's an old engine." Yes, you hear it coming... I crept underneath - removed the torque converter dust shield... sure enough!!!!! A 350 flexplate on there!!!!!!!!!!!!! I later learned that he did not know the differnce between a 400 and a 350.

Every since I trust no one to do the work on my car (Not that you have a choice with a machine shop) even if sometimes it can be a pain.

 

[Indycars]

I know its bothersome to think about a crank coming apart because of shawdy workmanship. But think like this, unless your going to race the car is the engine going to turn the rpms that will cause that type of problem. Also, I am sure from what I saw in the pictures, it looks like the old weld was removed and replaced with TIG welding. Tig welding of the quality seen in your pictures is known to be very strong. I work in a welding shop and forgings also take tig welding very well. I know thats not much of a consulation, I think you'll be okay.

Unfortunately that ugly hole is still there, It's at the back of the crank. Gerald didn't do anything to that area of the counterweight.


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[Indycars]

MF!!!! Yer railroading me into gettin another few coffees this morning!!!! That's insane! I mean I am flabbergasted!!!!! Don't make me come down there and kick his butt! (Man I'm so keyed-up lately.)
I do appreciate your concern/enthusiasm!!! But you probably have enough of your own concerns to be getting too worked up over mine.


I hope you get yer $$$ back!!!!! Insane! And considering your attention for detail, I can imagine the ugliness disturbs you - it would me as well. No one sees it, but I would know it is there.
Disturbed pretty well sums it up, that's exactly how I feel.


I think another wedgie is in order...
You have the strength and I have the motivation. If we get on both sides and....... I bet we can give him a double deep wedgie!!! The kind that will change his voice!!!

 

[DorianL]

Double-wedgie :lol: :lol: :lol: and peg him up in a tree...

 

[grumpyvette]

keep your cool, yes your out $200 now , and while thats a real p.i.t.a. too loose ,due to being scammed, and theres really no other way to look at this. theres NO UPSIDE to getting into an escalating dispute that could get you arrested or sued, if he refuses to give a refund. better to walk away and just let your friends know not to deal with the scammer than to get into a violent confrontation

 

[Indycars]

I went back to the first shop. I said to Bert, "here is the proof" and plopped it down on the table where he was working. Well of course he is not going to stop what he's doing right then, he makes me wait a minute. When he picks it up and looks at it, I explain that the first line is marked out because of the other motor that was being balanced and Gerald forgot to clear the memory. But I told him it was 8 grams and 11 grams out on the crank, 2 grams out on the rods. He looked it over and then keep working for a few minutes.

If he didn't believe me I was prepared with Gerald's phone number and ready to say "Let me call him and see what he says". But it didn't come to that, he said I guess I will refund your money. I felt he owed me something more for the messed up crank, but I said nothing. Just got my check and left.




You will notice on the first page where he added the flex plate and damper to the assembly on line 14. Gerald told me that's the correct way to balance and the other shop may have put everything together and then started balancing. That would explain why there was NO balancing holes on either. There is now!

Also you can see that Gerald uses a Sunnen DCB-750. Here is what Larry Carley said about the Sunnen in his article about balancing.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... atter.aspx

SUNNEN

Sunnen sells two balancers, a DCB-750 with digital controls that starts at around $17,000 and a DCB-2000 with Windows XP instrumentation touch screen display that starts at around $20,000. Tim Meara of Sunnen says both machines are mechanically the same except for the controls. New features on the DCB-2000 include counterweight cutting software for calculating how much metal to remove from the counterweights if a user prefers to turn down the counterweights rather than drill holes in them. New vectoring software shows where to add heavy metal to cranks and allows the use of existing holes to save extra drilling.

Meara says Sunnen's balancers are two-plane balancers. The DCB series balancers are extremely precise, measuring unbalance from .01 to 1,000 grams on work pieces weighing up to 500 lbs. (226 kg.). The balancers can handle anything from small engine cranks to diesel cranks. Also included is a heavy-duty drill tower and steel base that is concrete-filled for extra stability for more precise results.

Here is Sunnen BCD-750 in action.

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[grumpyvette]

cash it darn quickly, he might have given you the check just to avoid a direct confrontation and fully intends to void it before you cash it!

 

[busterrm]

I agree with Grumpy cash that check ASAP, he may start thinking about it and get pissed off and stop payment on the check and your out your 200 bux. I think Grumpy's also right about him wanting to avoid a confrontation. Go cash that sucker now!