TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)
- Thread starter Indycars
- Start date
I had to modify the SS ARP bolts to fit my water pump. I suspect it's because the Dart SHP
block has blind holes for the water pump mounting, just like it does for the head bolts. The
SS ARP bolts are 170,000 psi bolts, so I thought they might be impossible to cut with a
hacksaw. Turned out not to be too bad, yes they were harder to cut than grade 5 steel bolt,
but not too bad.
Only the 2-1/2 inch bolt fit without modification, the other three 2" bolt all had to be changed.
Last edited:
first CONGRATS ON THINKING VS JUST RANDOMLY ASSEMBLING!
Your showing far more skill, by Taking the effort and time to notice when things don,t fit and finding out whats required to get them to fit correctly ,rather than just cranking harder on the wrench in an attempt to get the bolt heads to tighten, well, thats part of being an engine BUILDER VS a bolter- on of parts"
Id bet a full 50% of the problems I see with cars are the direct or indirect result of guys rushing jobs or failing to understand basic mechanic skills and observe indications that the part needs to be fitted, modified or its just the wrong damn part that was provided, yet they still proceed with just taking it out of the box and using it without the least qusetion
as usually you show your far more talented, and and a strong tendency to be observant than some of my previous friends who would more than likely have either managed to over tighten the bolt, cracking the block or stripping the threads or have stupidly jury rigged the application with a stack of washers under the bolt head
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=3774&p=10002#p10002
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1264&p=2715&hilit=taps+dies#p2715
Your showing far more skill, by Taking the effort and time to notice when things don,t fit and finding out whats required to get them to fit correctly ,rather than just cranking harder on the wrench in an attempt to get the bolt heads to tighten, well, thats part of being an engine BUILDER VS a bolter- on of parts"
Id bet a full 50% of the problems I see with cars are the direct or indirect result of guys rushing jobs or failing to understand basic mechanic skills and observe indications that the part needs to be fitted, modified or its just the wrong damn part that was provided, yet they still proceed with just taking it out of the box and using it without the least qusetion
as usually you show your far more talented, and and a strong tendency to be observant than some of my previous friends who would more than likely have either managed to over tighten the bolt, cracking the block or stripping the threads or have stupidly jury rigged the application with a stack of washers under the bolt head
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=3774&p=10002#p10002
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1264&p=2715&hilit=taps+dies#p2715
any further progress on either the engine or transmission, your building andf modifying?
any thought into what brand of 3200 rpm stall converter and flex plate youll want, to use to match that engines power curve?
any other ideas, your going to be incorporating into that t-bucket assembly process ?,
any questions?
or great pictures
and possibly things you want to teach us youve learned?
obviously your learning a good deal, but its just as obvious you could easily teach many members a great deal also
any thought into what brand of 3200 rpm stall converter and flex plate youll want, to use to match that engines power curve?
any other ideas, your going to be incorporating into that t-bucket assembly process ?,
any questions?
or great pictures
and possibly things you want to teach us youve learned?
obviously your learning a good deal, but its just as obvious you could easily teach many members a great deal also
grumpyvette said:
I sent email to Extreme Automatics http://www.extremeautomatics.com/, but have no talked
with them yet. Plan on contacting CK Performance also. http://ckperformance.com/
Was that a suttle suggestion on the stall speed of 3200 rpm??? The torque convertor will
possibly come from the same place as the trans parts. The flex plate is a Scat SFI certified.
Got the brass freeze plugs polished and clear coated so they will stay shiny. They look
good against the black engine block, don't you think.
.
Last edited:
Indycars said:
you should call and talk to crowers tech guys AND your intended transmission and stall converter manufacturers tech guys , about your combo and that cam,s intended power band matching.
I used a 3200rpm stall speed converter, in my car and had other guys use that stall speed on similar engines, and it worked rather well,in several cars, in the past, so Im prone to point that out as a proven option, on several similar engine, combos, but your cars significantly lighter so you may get by with a bit lower stall speed
this would be far easier with a dyno chart showing the power curve and you might want to post a DD2000 wild guess dyno, as you know your exact combos specs , and it would be quite informative to those reading thru this thread,as its a ROUGH GUIDE , but the idea is to have the stall speed allow instant power access when you stomp the throttle, remember the car will move just fine at lower rpms at part throttle well below the 3200rpm, but youll want to verify youll be able too cruise without issues with what ever stall speed you select at 70mph with your gearing and tire diam.
as an example heres what DD2000 shows my current power curve as, (below) notice the 3200rpm stall puts me firmly into the torque curve sweet sport when stomping the throttle, with your lower car weight you probably won,t be able to use all the power anyway!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=430&p=529#p529
heres the resulting power band with a 3200 stall converter stall and shifting at about 6350rpm N/A
keep in mind that from planing to finish product this engine was designed to run nitrous, up too 200 hp shot, the dyno below is with only a 120 shot, and gives you some indication why I get good at replacing u-joints frequently and don,t use slicks to preserve the rear differential
mathd
solid fixture here in the forum
i love when he say: you probably won,t be able to use all the power anyway!
hehe
x2 for a Dyno2000 shot if you have the time for that.
with that last Dyno2000 shot from grumpy, it must be hard on the drivetrain? i was thinking about some nitrous in the futur(something around 100 shot) so thats why am asking.
hehe
x2 for a Dyno2000 shot if you have the time for that.
with that last Dyno2000 shot from grumpy, it must be hard on the drivetrain? i was thinking about some nitrous in the futur(something around 100 shot) so thats why am asking.
mathd said:i love when he say: you probably won,t be able to use all the power anyway!
hehe
Well if you read my signature line.....then you will know that I think that's
just about perfect!!! :lol:
x2 for a Dyno2000 shot if you have the time for that.
with that last Dyno2000 shot from grumpy, it must be hard on the drivetrain? i was thinking about some nitrous in the futur(something around 100 shot) so thats why am asking.
I looked but couldn't believe I don't have that already. I MUST have that somewhere. I will
try to post something tomorrow. Now I don't have DD2000, but I do have DynoSim5 for
what ever that's worth.
these threads might help
keep in mind the engines designed to produce explosive off idle torque and brisk performance street performance in a reasonably light car,not peak power numbers to brag about, and while the numbers in a soft ware dyno may not be impressive to some people driving the car should prove to be an eye opening experience with the instant torque levels
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7056&p=23524#p23524
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2301&p=23315&hilit=dyno+software#p23315
keep in mind the engines designed to produce explosive off idle torque and brisk performance street performance in a reasonably light car,not peak power numbers to brag about, and while the numbers in a soft ware dyno may not be impressive to some people driving the car should prove to be an eye opening experience with the instant torque levels
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7056&p=23524#p23524
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2301&p=23315&hilit=dyno+software#p23315
busterrm said:
Well I knew I had the all the info somewhere on ONE of THREE computers, so no need to do
it again. It was just a matter of finding the info.
My numbers come in a little lower, but you are right 'busterrm" with the 750 cfm carburetor. Did you mean
average or peak HP of 495 @ 6000 RPM ???
So the questions that I have that will have an effect on the Torque and HP are........
1.) Did I use the correct choice for an intake manifold with "Dual Plane High-Flow ???
................I have the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifold.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7501/
2.) Did I use the correct choice for combustion chamber design with "Wedge, Closed, Fast Burn ???
...............I have the Brodix IK200 head.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRO-1021007/
Supporting Data:
Last edited:
busterrm
solid fixture here in the forum
I must have found the wrong Crower cam, I had 550/559 instead of 562/567. So it brought the average up to 496hp @ 6k and 510tq @4.5k. Both of the dyno's I have had peak hp/tq at the same rpm levels so I just averaged the peaks.
I think the choices you used are probably correct, your torque curve looks more like a hyd roller than mine. Are you talking about in the software in your choices of intake and heads. I put the values in custom and put in your 71 cc heads after you had them angle milled if I remember right. I did notice with a single plane manifold peak hp and tq were closer together with the hp up to 514 and tq up to 517.5. Of course with the single plane you'd be losing the low end. What did you use for exhaust profile, I assumed your headers are large tube since its a SBC 400. Okay, I just noticed you used small tube headers open exhaust let me run them again.
I think the choices you used are probably correct, your torque curve looks more like a hyd roller than mine. Are you talking about in the software in your choices of intake and heads. I put the values in custom and put in your 71 cc heads after you had them angle milled if I remember right. I did notice with a single plane manifold peak hp and tq were closer together with the hp up to 514 and tq up to 517.5. Of course with the single plane you'd be losing the low end. What did you use for exhaust profile, I assumed your headers are large tube since its a SBC 400. Okay, I just noticed you used small tube headers open exhaust let me run them again.
Indycars said:
busterrm said:I must have found the wrong Crower cam, I had 550/559 instead of 562/567. So it brought the average up to 496hp @ 6k and 510tq @4.5k. Both of the dyno's I have had peak hp/tq at the same rpm levels so I just averaged the peaks.
The cam wold normally have a valve lift of .555/.560, but the CompCams roller rockers are 1.52:1. With
this rocker ratio I get a valve lift of .562/.567 . I do like your numbers better, I'm only getting 500 lb/ft
of torque and 460 HP.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1604-16/
I think the choices you used are probably correct, your torque curve looks more like a hyd roller than mine. Are you talking about in the software in your choices of intake and heads. I put the values in custom and put in your 71 cc heads after you had them angle milled if I remember right.
The combustion chambers are 70cc after milling, but I took just a straight cut. No angle milling.
I did notice with a single plane manifold peak hp and tq were closer together with the hp up to 514 and tq up to 517.5. Of course with the single plane you'd be losing the low end. What did you use for exhaust profile, I assumed your headers are large tube since its a SBC 400. Okay, I just noticed you used small tube headers open exhaust let me run them again.
Last edited:
INDY, if you do eventually find the cars got a bit too much low rpm torque for your taste,probably because spinning the tires when you start moving won,t be overly difficult, you might think about swapping to this keith darton single plane Holley intake and retarding the cam to 2 degrees retarded from the split overlap indexed location, will kill off a bit of the low end and add a noticeable amount of upper rpm breathing potential .but your hardly at a point to judge or contemplate changes at this point, and Id doubt thats necessary, but you might want to run a DD2000 plot to see what the difference in the torque curve is predicted to look like with those two small changes , in fact it might be rather educational if you made just those two changes to your DD2000 prediction you posted a bit higher in this thread and post both dd2000 software predictions side by side , so they are easily compared
having done that swap in components on several cars, in the past I can assure you theres a noticeable gain in upper rpm power and a noticeable loss in off idle torque, I can also tell you that many guys eventually swap back to the AIR GAP intake and just learn to be a bit less agreasive in their driving style , as they like the instant available torque , and eventually realize they spend 90%plus , of the time driving at below 5500rpm.
you might also want to consider looking into shift kits or a full manual control on that auto transmission, as the stock valve body and shift kit will shift the car too early in the power band unless mods are made to maximize your cars use of the power band with custom controls on the shift points
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-110/
http://www.transdepot.net/2004R-Perform ... _p_16.html
having done that swap in components on several cars, in the past I can assure you theres a noticeable gain in upper rpm power and a noticeable loss in off idle torque, I can also tell you that many guys eventually swap back to the AIR GAP intake and just learn to be a bit less agreasive in their driving style , as they like the instant available torque , and eventually realize they spend 90%plus , of the time driving at below 5500rpm.
you might also want to consider looking into shift kits or a full manual control on that auto transmission, as the stock valve body and shift kit will shift the car too early in the power band unless mods are made to maximize your cars use of the power band with custom controls on the shift points
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-110/
http://www.transdepot.net/2004R-Perform ... _p_16.html
grumpyvette said:
Selecting the "Wedge Open" chamber actually reduces the torque and HP by a few numbers.
Here are the choices that I have in DynoSim5
I have one choice for Dual Plane Intakes that is better than what I'm using (High-Flow).
It's referred to a "Max-Flow" and makes additional 50 HP!
This is what the documentation in the Help files says about the dual plane intake choices:
I sure hope I'm closer to the Max-Flow dual plane intake!!!
Last edited: