TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

don,t get all physicked out on horsepower numbers, just get it assembled and see how it runs before working about making changes.
personally I think your first few foot to the floor acceleration runs will be a real eye opener, even as it sits now.
theres little doubt this thread shows a well engineered engine combo assembled by Indycars, who has taken the time and effort to research and do things correctly.
.
Ive build guys engines, or helped guys build engines often enough to know that, the vast majority have never yet seen what a properly configured combo can do , in fact I had one guy a few years ago who was absolutely amazed at the results we got from a fairly mild 496 BBC, when I told him it was a basic 550hp/550 tq build he was disappointed as he thought his previous engine made that much, it didn,t! and he was almost scared to drive his car at first.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5123

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1420

once you see what even 450hp plus/450 ft lbs or more of tq will do to that car. produced by that small block youve built, it will take some adjustment to your driving skills to handle it.
lets say your car weights 2800lbs with you in it and produces 430 rear wheel hp, that already puts you solidly in the high 10 second range adding nitrous could easily get the car into the very low 10 second range possibly even faster, in theory your T-buckets a great deal lighter in weight so it should be amazingly responsive with the engine combo you've built.
Id be rather reluctant to just floor the accelerator in that car until you work up gradually to get a feel for the power levels your controlling, because having built basically similar engines in the past for slightly heavier cars I'm sure you'll be impressed

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php



ds2.jpg

heres a dyno chart on a totally unrelated engine build ,showing the effective difference in the power curve between a rpm air gap dual plane intake and a single plane VIC jr intake, which flows significantly less air than the Holley darton intake, notice the minor loss in low rpm tq and the modest gains in peak power, you could and probably will see a noticeably greater variation if you swap intakes to the Holley/darton single plane design, due to its larger ports and more efficient design.

ds1.jpg

once you master the engines N/A power curve theres always the option of adding NITROUS and your combo will easily pull better numbers that this dyno graph shows
edl-70050_w.jpg

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... merrpm.pdf
 
Am wondering, if adding nitrous what about the fuel system? bigger lines and a bigger fuel pump are required?
 
mathd said:
Am wondering, if adding nitrous what about the fuel system? bigger lines and a bigger fuel pump are required?

without knowing exactly what your currently using its a bit difficult to guess at the correct answer to that question, but I generally prefer AN#8 lines

HERES SOME RELATED INFO, with lots of optional , and useful info, Id point out that for many guys reading thru this thread, failure to take the time to read thru the linked info could eventually cost you far more than the time it takes to read the links, so its to your benefit to do so.
FuelFlowDiagramEdit%20copy123.gif


viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=6105&p=18854&hilit=fuel+filters#p18854

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1939

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635
 
grumpyvette said:
mathd said:
Am wondering, if adding nitrous what about the fuel system? bigger lines and a bigger fuel pump are required?

without knowing exactly what your currently using its a bit difficult to guess at the correct answer to that question, but I generally prefer AN#8 lines

What the hell are you guying thinking, NITROUS.....are you trying to get me killed ???

I know..... a good 200 HP shot at about 150 mph and then just pull back on the yoke and look for the moon. Guys this is not a rocket ship !!! :lol: :p

 
Got a couple more things done, nothing too exciting.

Cleaned up the sealing ridge of the oil filter adapter with some 2000 grit paper. They sure
make them cheap!

OilFilterAdapter_2600.jpg

Before I installed the balancer I polished the hub where the seal goes. Wanted to make
sure there are NO leaks if possible.

I had to make two trips to get an installer with right adapter to screw into the crank
snout. The first one was missing ONE adapter, of course it was the one I needed. Returned
it went to another auto supply.

Put some motor oil on the crank and a little assembly lube on the balancer sealing
surface. Torqued it to 70 ft/lbs with ARP fastener lube.


HarmonicBalancerHubPolished_2603.jpg

.
 
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Indycars said:
grumpyvette said:
mathd said:
Am wondering, if adding nitrous what about the fuel system? bigger lines and a bigger fuel pump are required?

without knowing exactly what your currently using its a bit difficult to guess at the correct answer to that question, but I generally prefer AN#8 lines

What the hell are you guying thinking, NITROUS.....are you trying to get me killed ???

I know..... a good 200 HP shot at about 150 mph and then just pull back on the yoke and look for the moon. Guys this is not a rocket ship !!! :lol: :p

OMG, Rick its gonna be stout without it, probably be down right scary with a 200 shot! Geesus you'd be up around 700hp, a 3psi shot(75hp) would give you a level tq curve at 600 until about 4500.
 
200 shot is way too much i dont think you will need over 100 shot especially with the car the Tbucket weight otherwise you will have to look in the sky before to floor it so you dont hit a plane :)
 

busterrm and mathd,

Is it really that hard to tell when I'm NOT SERIOUS ?????? :rolleyes:


 
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Hahahahahahaha !!! your so funny, I was joking too, bahahahahahahaha!!!!! Wait till i go to work tomorrow, and I tell the guys I looked at pictures of something that was polished, then lube was applied so it didn't leak, and the snout it was slid on was oiled down. Omg I just laughed so hard I farted!
 
busterrm said:
Hahahahahahaha !!! your so funny, I was joking too, bahahahahahahaha!!!!! Wait till i go to work tomorrow, and I tell the guys I looked at pictures of something that was polished, then lube was applied so it didn't leak, and the snout it was slid on was oiled down. Omg I just laughed so hard I farted!
Well I guess you had me going there! Try some smiley faces, I can't see your facial expressions when you are giving me a hard time! :lol:

Really you don't have to tell your friends everything......please! :rolleyes:

 
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Indycars said:
busterrm said:
Hahahahahahaha !!! your so funny, I was joking too, bahahahahahahaha!!!!! Wait till i go to work tomorrow, and I tell the guys I looked at pictures of something that was polished, then lube was applied so it didn't leak, and the snout it was slid on was oiled down. Omg I just laughed so hard I farted!
Well I guess you had me going there! Try some smiley faces, I can't see your facial expressions when you are giving me a hard time! :lol:

Really you don't have to tell your friends everything......please! :roll:

Hahahahahaha! Rick, I am not saying a thing to the guys at work. :) They think I am a gearhead nut anyway, so it would roll off their shoulder anyway. To be honest I am probably just as excited as you are, like previously said, I have been watching your posts with religion.
 
Hey Rick, what does your T bucket weigh with you in it? Also what gear is in the rearend?
 

I tried weighing it with a bathroom scale, doing it one wheel at a time, then weighing each
piece like the trans, etc separately. This was after is was disassembled to a rolling chassis. I
came up with 1350 lbs, but that's got to be too light. Most TBuckets weight around 1800 lbs,
so I suspect that's where I'm at, I have never weighed it properly.

The rear end is a Ford 9" locker with a 3.7 gear ratio.

 
once you get it assembled and running Im sure a local truck stop has a scale that will allow you to weight the car!
the engine combo we selected, and you have assembled, is designed, to maximize the effective torque curve and useable power band with that matched rear end gearing and a converter stall speed close to 3100rpm
that should effectively turn the T-bucket into a street rocket if the suspension,tires and driving skill matches the potential power to weight ratio and power band.
The more I look over this thread the more I think I want to build something a bit similar, at least in concept because a T-bucket allows very easy access to the engine and drive train,and IM tired of dealing with the corvettes cramped engine compartment,plus a T-bucket is at least 1200 lbs-1500lbs lighter in weight than most street cars making for both excellent braking and acceleration potential, and I'm just a bit nostalgic and jealous at this point ,knowing what to expect, having built similar projects for several other guys in the past.(none of them took the time and effort you have on this project, so your results should be spectacular)
and while I would have most likely built a big block and used a DANA 60 rear differential in any personal built T-bucket and had 4 wheel disc brakes and a 4L80E transmission, I doubt the results would be much faster, its just that Ive usually dealt with those components and feel comfortable using those as a basis.
Id also have put some thought into installing a roll cage to add a bit of rigidity and safety

useful related info

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=934&p=1575&hilit=t+bucket#p1575

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=741

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=555

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1715

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=2949

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=2400

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1282

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=5083
 
Indycars said:

I tried weighing it with a bathroom scale, doing it one wheel at a time, then weighing each
piece like the trans, etc separately. This was after is was disassembled to a rolling chassis. I
came up with 1350 lbs, but that's got to be too light. Most TBuckets weight around 1800 lbs,
so I suspect that's where I'm at, I have never weighed it properly.

The rear end is a Ford 9" locker with a 3.7 gear ratio.

holie molie, with that engine combo, 1800 lbs, 373 rearend, I am thinking you will be looking at the stars the first time you stand on it.
 
BTW ,lets discuss some components you purchased and what if anything you would change, upgrade or delete?
where did you get the basic frame, suspension body, interior rear differential, transmission radiator etc?
 
grumpyvette said:
BTW ,lets discuss some components you purchased and what if anything
you would change, upgrade or delete?
where did you get the basic frame, suspension body, interior rear differential, transmission radiator etc?

The car was originally completed in 1980, so a lot of the details are lost to time. Being a college
student at the time, there was only enough money for the basics. But today if I was building a
TBucket, it would be one of the stretched bodies. There is so little room in one of these cars
that every inch is precious. There are plenty of companies that build stretched bodies in length
and width.

The frame started out as just the bare 4 rails with no brackets, no cross members or any spring
perches. All the brackets were drawn on cardboard and then transferred to the steel. Cut out
the brackets with a cutting torch, usually two and clamp them together, grind the edges smooth,
then drill any holes. Now days you can buy just the brackets or kit, a rolling chassis all the way
up to a complete car.

Not my frame, just an example:
BareFrame.JPG

The rear spring are from a Corvair, but the popular thing is the coil over shocks now. If you
have some extra money and motivation, you can go for the Corvette or Jag rear suspension.

TBucketRearView_0002.jpg
TBucketSideView_0001.jpg

Most bodies are going to need wood glassed in to strengthen them and also to give the interior
something to attached to.

Not my body either:
BodyWood01.jpg
BodyWood02.jpg

These cars can be anything you want them to be, you are the systems engineer for this project!

BTW, I didn't do all this myself I had lots of help from a friend.

 
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busterrm said:
So where you on the engine Rick?
I've worked on the plug wires, but I'm on hold until I place another order. I need two more bolt-on, 4 wire plug wire looms. The firewall is even with the block to bell housing interface and I want to make sure they don't rub.

This is what I have now.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-72195/?rtype=10
MorsoPlugWireLoomKit#72195.jpg


I had to tap a couple of very short holes in the back of the heads. I went with 3/8" fine thread bolts since the holes were so short. This required drilling to enlarge the hole by 1/64". I marked the bottom on the holes with a Sharpie, so I could tell when to stop drilling.....when the black was almost gone.

I've been distracted by the transmission holding fixture that I need to fabricate and the cold cutting saw that I needed to order to do this.

TapBackOfHead01_2631.jpg
FourWireClipsAdded_2635.jpg
UnderHeaderPlugWires_2629.jpg
UnderHeaderPlugWires02_2633.jpg






 
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Nice, did you check the header to spark plug wire for clearance? i know you will anyway, just asking because they look very well routed right now :)
 
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